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Thread: Claire's theory on where L Ron Hubbard truly went wrong

  1. #31
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    I don't think scientology or Hubbard "went wrong" at all.

    In my opinion, scientology does exactly what Hubbard intended it to do:

    it brought power and wealth to Hubbard.

    He created a "game" that was intended and designed to get people to "flow power" to him in the form of adulation, energy, money. They did. They still do.

    Whether or not along the way anyone got better or had their life improved, or their life ruined, is irrelevant to the actual purpose of scientology. There are people who swear that scientology saved them. There are others who testify that it ruined them.

    Regardless, Hubbard got what HE wanted and that's what it was all about -- it really had little or nothing to do with YOU, the pawns (the "pieces" as he called them) of the game.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnonKat View Post
    Don't be discouraged, your input is valuable
    I'm not discouraged at all. It's just that HH decided what there was for him in Scio - i.e. nothing at all - then he found that and now he complains about it. He confirms exactly what I said in my first post on this thread.
    Standard tech is a subset of LRH tech. LRH tech is a subset of freezone tech. Freezone tech is a subset of all possible tech. - Pilot

    I think that the future lies in understanding and developing the capabilities of the mind and spirit. I might sometimes loosely call this Scientology, but I don't mean the CofS. I mean anything which works in this direction, which would even include you if you ever achieve real wisdom. - Pilot

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkwdblds View Post
    Originally Posted by Helena Handbasket

    Snipped . . . .
    He ended up in a "bubble", much the same as what America's President Obama talks about. He limited his contacts to a small number of insider staff, who controlled his comm lines and filtered what went in and out.

    He failed to create "sub-heroes", people who would be recognized as real important (although, of course, less imortant than himself) and who would provide a clear line of succession.

    Those of us who still believe in the basic purpose of Scientology will carry on. Somehow. Those who don't can say nothing or natter or whatever they wish. That's your right.

    Helena
    Nice post with many good points. However, I think your paragraph on his failure to create "sub -heroes" needs to be tweeked a bit. He did inadvertently create lots of "sub heroes". Prime examples are John Mac Master, Yvonne Jentzsch and Otto Roos. Other earlier sub heroes were the Kemps, Ray and Pam and the Halperns, who developed the TR's not to mention Dr. Winter, who wrote the forward to his original Dianetics book, John Campbell his publisher and Volney Matheison who developed the E-Meter. There is a list of many others as well. Mary Sue Hubbard, herself, was a created sub hero.

    He had a line of succession established. Mary Sue Hubbard could have run the organizations and he hand picked David Mayo to be Senior C/S International and establish his own corporation, separate from C of S, so that he could run the tech division without being corrupted by other parts of the church. In the 50's he was grooming L Ron Hubbard, Jr. (Nibs) to be his heir apparent and in the 70's he was hoping that Quentin might assume that role. Diana figured as well in his line of succession. Perhaps for several years, Ken Urquhart may have figured into his succession plans as might have Captain Bill Robertson.

    At the end of his life, he was off the major communication lines of his church and the communications into him were controlled by you know who. By this time his physical and mental capacities were seriously impaired and MSH and Mayo were now taboo as far as he was concerned.

    In a last gasp effort to provide some succession, he named two relative nobodies, Pat and Annie Broeker as his successors. These people were loyal to him and took care of his "household" type of activities such as his housing, his food and his personal care. They had no real talents either in "Tech" nor "admin" but they were the only ones whom he had seen in his last years so he passed on the baton to them in a last ditch effort to preserve his legacy. Of course, DM was able to take them down with ease just a short time later.

    What a sad and pathetic ending for a once "larger than life" and vibrant man. All he could do at the end was promote himself to "Admiral" and sail off into the Galaxy, leaving behind two "loyal officers", who were just ordinary people with no special skills, to run his empire.

    Lakey
    Errr, ummm, the record shows he actually destroyed, abused and mis-used all those who were or might have been "sub-heroes" and/or who supported and massively contributed to him to the extent that they might have had recognition as heroes.

    Fact is, he simply couldn't have an other "stars" about than him. Ever noticed how he standardly, always put down and invalidated others in power positions and/or other subjects outside of $cn?

    You can also see that he factually, just really couldn't "fit in anywhere" . . . hence his dropping out of college and his chronic loner, I'll do it my way behavior. Though he did "join" institutions that would give him some kind of credibility though actually participate.

    Rog
    Life is supposed to be enjoyed, Mate!

    "Twenty years of work has been put into this performance." Cadel Evans on winning the Tour de France.
    I'm with you on that, mate. Mine's taken me fifty-plus.

  4. #34
    Gold Meritorious Patron Freeminds's Avatar
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    I was interested to discover that poor old Ron actually dropped out of school twice.

    In October 1947, Ron had discovered he would get $90 a month subsistence from the Veterans Administration if he enrolled at college. He signed up at the Geller Theater Workshop, but had dropped out by November 14th.

    He claimed subsistence until the end of November, though... and got caught out. He was presented with a bill for repayment as a result.

    This may be the origin of Freeloader Debt! Needless to say, he didn't pay the money back.
    You don't have to worry about squirrels
    unless you are a nut.

  5. #35
    Fool on the Hill Voltaire's Child's Avatar
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    When I say "went wrong", I mean what is not right with it and how did he bring about the mess we see now and have seen for many years. It is a mess.
    I am truly into myself, yes. And I'm just as interested in other people. When I'm not thinking of one, I'm thinking of the other.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire's Child View Post
    When I say "went wrong", I mean what is not right with it and how did he bring about the mess we see now and have seen for many years. It is a mess.
    Good thread Claire.
    "Scientology: The only game in the universe where the rapist is your ethics officer." - HelluvaHoax

    "Yes Scientology at this point is nothing but its own funeral. You might as well leave early and beat the traffic. " - Thrak

  7. #37
    Patron Meritorious Captain Koolaid's Avatar
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    When Hubbard started his Dianetics foundation he was already a lowlife. A conman, thief, compulsive liar, racist, wifebeater. Obsessed with the idea to smash his name into history, obsessed with making money, and he already displayed sociopathic tendencies in his attempt to destroy people who he perceived as obstacles for his goals. His effort to libel people as communists during the McCarthy era was his attempt to "ruin them utterly". He even tried to terrorize Sara Northrup into committing suicide, because he believed that a divorce would "harm his reputation". Hubbard had no shred of altruism. It is possible that he became so enmeshed in his lies that he became convinced that he was actually helping people, after all he also demanded the release of his naval service record and screamed bloody murder when he discovered that the navy had "stolen" his credentials.

    http://www.xenu.net/archive/FBI/fbi-103.html
    Liberty is the possibility of doubting, of making a mistake,... of searching and experimenting,... of saying No to any authority - literary, artistic, philosophical, religious, social, and even political. ~Ignazio Silone, The God That Failed, 1950

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire's Child View Post
    That's true insofar as it relates to a person's practice of Scn as ideology and methodology. But to me, it is relevant to see where Scn went off the rails because we are still picking up the pieces. People are coming here virtually every day with their stories to tell. There are court cases and investigations right now.
    Scientology "went off the rails" at first when Hubbard died and was no longer there to control it, and later when modern communications technology rose to its current level (thanks mostly to the internet) and the real truth about scientology and Hubbard -- which could no longer be hidden and suppressed -- became widely known.

    This made it possible for all the "broken pieces" to share their stories and find out they were not alone, that instead of personally "failing" as they'd been led to believe, they had been used, abused, misled and taken advantage of, and that NO ONE had actually achieved what Hubbard had promised was possible with scientology.

    It became widely known that the CLAIMS that there were millions and millions of members, that it was the fastest growing religion on the planet, that people were flooding into the organizations (just not YOUR org) and making enormous and amazing gains (just not YOU or anyone you know) were false.

    We will be "picking up the pieces" for quite some time because there are still a lot of people out there in the world who haven't yet seen the truth about Hubbard and scientology -- either because they are still isolated and haven't yet seen the facts, OR because they are still so much "under the influence" of Hubbard's spell that they refuse to believe the truth.

    Hubbard wasn't trying to save the world with scientology; he was trying to enrich himself, and he did. Some people are still trying to preserve and continue to enrich his memory.

    That some people got "benefits" from scientology, and that some people hope to use what they learned in the future to benefit themselves, or others, is a separate issue.

    Where that becomes an IMPORTANT issue, is that scientology, as a philosophy and technology, is booby trapped with Hubbard's not-so-obvious control mechanisms, and can be "dangerous" on many levels; therefore, it makes sense that some people (like me, for example) would want to warn others about it's use and would want to discourage people from promoting its use.

    I believe that when it comes to the practice of scientology, the risks to one's emotional/mental health outweigh the benefits. All I have to do to be convinced of that, is to look at the behavior of scientologists -- those I have known personally, and those I know vicariously through their stories.

    Of course, you all can do your own speculating as to what made them (or you) behave that way. To each his own.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Koolaid View Post
    When Hubbard started his Dianetics foundation he was already a lowlife. A conman, thief, compulsive liar, racist, wifebeater. Obsessed with the idea to smash his name into history, obsessed with making money, and he already displayed sociopathic tendencies in his attempt to destroy people who he perceived as obstacles for his goals. His effort to libel people as communists during the McCarthy era was his attempt to "ruin them utterly". He even tried to terrorize Sara Northrup into committing suicide, because he believed that a divorce would "harm his reputation". Hubbard had no shred of altruism. It is possible that he became so enmeshed in his lies that he became convinced that he was actually helping people, after all he also demanded the release of his naval service record and screamed bloody murder when he discovered that the navy had "stolen" his credentials.

    http://www.xenu.net/archive/FBI/fbi-103.html
    http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threa...9/#post-759866

    "Living is a pretty grim joke, but a joke just the same. The entire function of man is to survive. Not for 'what' but just to survive. I turned the thing up so it's up to me to survive in a big way. Personal immortality is only to be gained through the printed word, barred note or painted canvas or hard granite. Foolishly perhaps, but determined nonetheless, I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all the books are destroyed. That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned. Things which stand too consistently in my way make me nervous. It's a pretty big job. In a hundred years Roosevelt will have been forgotten, which gives some idea of the magnitude of my attempt."

    L. Ron Hubbard
    http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/vanderkolk/

    "With realization of one's own potential and self-confidence in one's ability, one can build a better world."

    -Dalai Lama

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by olska View Post
    Scientology "went off the rails" at first when Hubbard died and was no longer there to control it.. <snip>
    Hmm.. As it happens I don't think we're in any kind of disagreement.. I just feel a need to ponder about just what 'off the rails' means.

    To me, when I joined the Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology, it was about Dianetics, which was about making my mind better. It was a psychotherapy and a training regime... Nothing to do with religion either, but that's beside the point in this. The idea was to make the mind better. That was 'on the rails', so to speak.

    As an additional benefit, when the mind got better, you became better at being here, in this world, in life. More intelligent, more rational, more just. And admirable human being.. So I expected scientologists to be the ones that could create a better society. No crime and insanity and all that jazz.. They wouldn't be susceptible to dictators or tyrants for instance.

    Now with these expectations of mine, Scientology was 'off the rails' years before I joined. I discovered that when I joined the Guardian's Office..

    Way off the rails!

    Dianetics didn't make people saner or more intelligent. I observed quite the opposite to be the case. The Guardian's Office was a 'reality factor' as to what Scientology's idea of a just society was. An orwellian nightmare!

    Gawd! What a nauseating fiasco Scientology is!!!

    Ask not what Scientology can do for you, ask what the F#*¤CK is going on!

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