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Thread: Bill Frank's story about brainwashing (thread merge)

  1. #201
    Crusader Sindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulf K. Maier View Post
    Hi Synthia

    I think your and Mr Franks' last post crossed each other on the way in... I believe he answers you here:

    "I just would like this knowing abuse of the tech to be revealed so that more clever people than I might be able to salvage the tech as well as themselves. best Bill "

    Since I don't believe there is any "tech" to salvage, and my experiences have led me to believe that what Hubbard ran was a sophisticated scam, I am out of this thread.

    In other words, Hubbard's or any other *brand* of Scientology based on his flavour are out and out BULLSHIT. The parts that may have worked for some people were plagiarised from working technologies by Hubbard and minions. I defy anyone to prove otherwise.
    Okay, just hang in there. We've only just begun. We're working on getting a complete view here. I don't think that's even remotely possible with what has been communicated so far.

    Leave if you wish but, I'd encourage a pithy question or two from your intelligent universe.
    "Scientology: The only game in the universe where the rapist is your ethics officer." - HelluvaHoax

    "Yes Scientology at this point is nothing but its own funeral. You might as well leave early and beat the traffic. " - Thrak

  2. #202
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    Wecome Bill,

    We never met, but as a denizen of FCDC for a while, there were some stories that persisted around those parts for quite a while after your presence there (and we know, at least philosophically what causes things to persist.) One story had to do with dirks and product conferences, the other with a showing of the movie "Patton" to the FCDC crew. Apparently one of your execs was enamored with the 'Desert Fox' valence, and another exec claimed to just have been "an insurance salesman". Can you shed any light on the veracity of the above?

    But what I really think would be of most value is "the candor" of which LRH could be capable of, to which you allude.

    Again, it is wonderful that you found your voice here.
    "Deception is the ethics of war." - John Singleton Mosby

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by degraded being View Post
    Do you not like to see reflections of Ron and his cult?
    Reflections?
    MY STORY FROM INSIDE SCIENTOLOGY: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...-Ups-and-Downs

    "Scientology is essentially a spy and mind-control network set up to extract the most money it can from itís members as well as to enforce the maximum amount of production out of each individual, at minimal or no cost to the organization. Itís as simple as that." - John Peeler

  4. #204

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    The subject of scientology being brainwashing has been much discussed here.
    Brainwashing threads on ESMB

    Brainwashing is an important piece of the puzzle and your revelation here is all the more important in substanciating it.

    Not sure if you ever read this:

    Brainwashing in Scientology's Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF)
    http://www.solitarytrees.net/pubs/skent/brain.htm

    One of the best and earliest references on Hubbard's use of hypnotism in Dianetics is by Jon Atack:
    "Never believe a hypnotist"
    An investigation of L. Ron Hubbard's statements about hypnosis and its relationship to his Dianetics. by Jon Atack HTML and links by Tilman Hausherr
    http://home.snafu.de/tilman/j/hypnosis.html

    Research by Jon Atack on Scientology, Dianetics and L. Ron Hubbard
    http://home.snafu.de/tilman/j/index.html
    ~ Mary McConnell, my nom de plume
    Internet Resources on Scientology for newcomers
    Narconon Reviews Get the facts about Narconon.
    Reaching For The Tipping Point A place to keep up on what is being done to expose Scn & it's front groups, like Narconon, CCHR etc to the general public. Lots of up-to-date info. Join us
    My Scribd Scn & Narconon Legal Dox
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  5. #205
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    Default brainwashing

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulf K. Maier View Post
    Two questions, please:

    1. In your time as ED INT, would you say that, speaking generally (not in generalities), Senior Exec Strata execs were "true believers"? Or was it really more about "make money, make more money, get others to make more money" and rather cynical?

    2. Some say that Miscavige has been running the C of S as Hubbard intended. Do you agree with this characterisation of his tenure as manager?
    Dear Ulf,
    I'd say most people I knew were true believers though I always thought the midget and his cronies were onto something else including hubbard. Yes it was about money in the 70's and 80's but it was also about delivering the tech to growing quantities of people. It's interesting to note that in 1980 that we put up several evals to lower the cost of the training and auditing and hubbard went bananas. Really. So, draw your own conclusions.
    I believe the midget is what one would expect from an eight grader (mind you, an angry eight grader) as I believe that is all the education he got. I spent not a little time with him and i never saw him read anything but always had it read to him and this was true with writing as well. If anyone could find someone by the name of John Nelson, he would corroberate these facts.
    The midget was and is ruthless and I would say that from what I have seen and heard the major thought he has when he gets up in the PM is what can I do for dave today. But he is quite serious about his personal survival and in the time that I spent with him he made no bones about it. That is enough. Best, Bill

  6. #206
    Patron Meritorious Ulf K. Maier's Avatar
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    Default I'm still reading the thread :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthia View Post
    Okay, just hang in there. We've only just begun. We're working on getting a complete view here. I don't think that's even remotely possible with what has been communicated so far.

    Leave if you wish but, I'd encourage a pithy question or two from your intelligent universe.
    Hmm. I just don't like the sound of this Tek-salvaging. I don't hear any talk about those broken and left drifting like flotsam by Scientology. What about helping those people? They don't need to be put on a meter to be told what they're upset about. I guess it's left to some of the rest of us to deal with.

    I did ask a couple questions earlier, thanks. Maybe you didn't catch them. Maybe Mr Franks will answer them. I understand I'm not the only one here
    Ulf


    @OSA: I am not auditing you... THIS is the session.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feral View Post
    I think you'll find two things to be true here.

    Firstly Gotta is inoculated and secondly the indies know it.

    Their desire to disseminate the tech won't involve the impossible. :D
    Thanks for the vote of confidence, Feral! No more KoolAde for me!

    I agree, my enemy's enemy is not necessarily my friend. But I see discussion with my Indy friends (I don't get along with ALL Indies, by any stretch) more from a Hegel viewpoint: thesis - antithesis - synthesis. We don't directly discuss Scn. Those that have a wider education and more world contacts and experience don't seem to have a hard time discussing their beliefs in more general terms, without constant (mis)credit or parroting of Hubbard. Some of their views open possibilities for me, and vice-versa. I don't see them as true believers in the cult sense, nor as true followers of Marty, either.

    Besides, as much as some might worry about the ex's views getting compromised, the same could be said about the Indies' views getting compromised by speaking to us. I would think Marty would be very worried about that if it was about control. Independent should mean exactly that! As long as it does to my Indy friends, more power to them in thinking and acting and living as freely and happily as possible.

    TO BILL FRANKS: Helloooo.... Would you answer me, please?

  8. #208
    Crusader Sindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulf K. Maier View Post
    Hmm. I just don't like the sound of this Tek-salvaging. I don't hear any talk about those broken and left drifting like flotsam by Scientology. What about helping those people? They don't need to be put on a meter to be told what they're upset about. I guess it's left to some of the rest of us to deal with.

    I did ask a couple questions earlier, thanks. Maybe you didn't catch them. Maybe Mr Franks will answer them. I understand I'm not the only one here
    He did answer you. In regards the rest, give it some time. He just got on this board 45 minutes ago. It wasn't so easy before the Internet. We have instantaneous communication and expect answers, answers, answers.

    He hasn't, apparently, spoken out on any forum since he left many, many years ago. Patience.

    Tonight is an introduction, I hope. Every relationship takes time.

    I'm not looking for him to become some sort of savior or for him to agree with me, I want to know what he knows, what he saw, his perspective. It fills in the holes and makes things make more sense. That's valuable.

    I do see what you are saying and why you feel the way that you do.
    "Scientology: The only game in the universe where the rapist is your ethics officer." - HelluvaHoax

    "Yes Scientology at this point is nothing but its own funeral. You might as well leave early and beat the traffic. " - Thrak

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    Default brainwashing

    Quote Originally Posted by Div6 View Post
    Wecome Bill,

    We never met, but as a denizen of FCDC for a while, there were some stories that persisted around those parts for quite a while after your presence there (and we know, at least philosophically what causes things to persist.) One story had to do with dirks and product conferences, the other with a showing of the movie "Patton" to the FCDC crew. Apparently one of your execs was enamored with the 'Desert Fox' valence, and another exec claimed to just have been "an insurance salesman". Can you shed any light on the veracity of the above?

    But what I really think would be of most value is "the candor" of which LRH could be capable of, to which you allude.

    Again, it is wonderful that you found your voice here.
    Dear Sir, It wasn't a dirk but a "K-Bar" and I was thankfully accurate with it. We did show movies and Patton was one of them. I don't remember the Desert fox personna, but one guy was into Guederian whio invented the "Blitzkrieg".. I don't remember the insurance salesman
    As far as hubbard's candor, I believe that a lot of people such as messengers, etc could tell stories along these lines when the drugs wore off or it began to be late in the early morning. There were more than a few dispatches that I saw ripped up at a later date, but I don't think that is original. best, Bill Franks

  10. #210
    Patron Meritorious Ulf K. Maier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill franks View Post
    Dear Ulf,
    I'd say most people I knew were true believers though I always thought the midget and his cronies were onto something else including hubbard. Yes it was about money in the 70's and 80's but it was also about delivering the tech to growing quantities of people. It's interesting to note that in 1980 that we put up several evals to lower the cost of the training and auditing and hubbard went bananas. Really. So, draw your own conclusions.
    I believe the midget is what one would expect from an eight grader (mind you, an angry eight grader) as I believe that is all the education he got. I spent not a little time with him and i never saw him read anything but always had it read to him and this was true with writing as well. If anyone could find someone by the name of John Nelson, he would corroberate these facts.
    The midget was and is ruthless and I would say that from what I have seen and heard the major thought he has when he gets up in the PM is what can I do for dave today. But he is quite serious about his personal survival and in the time that I spent with him he made no bones about it. That is enough. Best, Bill
    Dear Mr Franks,

    Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions.

    I see. I had had the impression that there were cliques, and the CMO were out to destroy and re-create the other working units in an image more easily manipulated, under orders from Hubbard, or falsified orders created by the Miscavige-Broeker cabal.

    Miscavige has something in common with George W. Bush! Isn't that something? (the reading of the reports to him)

    John Nelson is a name I haven't heard in a long time.

    Got you on your impression of Miscavige. I think we can all concur on that.

    I disagree with you on your idea of salvaging the Scientology tech, if that is indeed what you mean to do. All that interests me is:

    1. Getting those out who want out.
    2. Making known the fact that Scientology as it is and has been run is a ruthless scam and should be avoided, if not (preferably) outright obliterated as an organisation.

    At the same time, I should say I am of peaceable character and libertarian leanings, and believe that anyone should be able to believe what he wants, so long as no one is hurt in so doing.

    Thanks again for your time.
    Ulf


    @OSA: I am not auditing you... THIS is the session.

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