Page 27 of 56 FirstFirst ... 171819202122232425262728293031323334353637 ... LastLast
Results 261 to 270 of 552

Thread: Bill Frank's story about brainwashing (thread merge)

  1. #261
    Silver Meritorious Patron Arthur Dent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,978

    Default

    Hello Bill,
    You've had many gracious welcomes here and now mine is among them.

    Your original post is really counter to the lynchpin of what is holding, I'd say, most of the active or semi-active scientologists in the church and making them pay the big bucks. With any luck it will cause many more blows!

    It would be of much value to link the continuity of the diminutive one's behavior stemming from 30 years ago to present. More about your imprisonment at Int, violations of human rights and if there were, specifically, any physical attacks to yourself or others may help to do this.

    There are lots of subjects to address and hopefully you will start many other threads as well or jump into existing ones.

    This thread has well over 7000 hits so far. That should tell you something! There are many lurkers out there as well as members. This board is an amazing wealth of information, history, insights and stories of the church and its operations. Your posts will add to that wealth. I hope you will benefit from its healing as well as from contributing to it.
    Arthur Dent.



    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=16696
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?24109



    Lurkers, hate to disappoint, but it really is a cult. Sorry.

  2. #262
    Crusader Sindy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    6,131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckbeatty View Post
    The situation predicament is Scientology would absolutely WISH for all former senior people, particularly people with uncomplimentary firsthand accounts of LRH, to go public about the history they experienced around Hubbard or around any of the leaders of Scientology.

    Bill Franks, like any citizen, is free, at least here in America, unless he signed a legal gag and was paid and doesn't wish to face the legal problems that breaking that agreement might bring, Bill is FREE to tell his history.

    Bill Franks was the first Executive Director International. Approved by LRH.

    Bill Franks has a long Sea Org officer history. He had his ups and downs, mainly ups, the downs related to his subordinates living under some intense pressure due to Bills style of executiving at times.

    Bill has a mathematician methodical type of thinking, one time during one of his lecture/threat moments with me, he told me of his mathematics professor in university. Bill was/is extremely methodical. He really knew how to live as an "executive on LRH's lines." Bill was, I believe a junior officer (Lieutenant) in the US Army or Marines. He could be really tough sometimes, I had two incidents,which I posted about, but overall he was very meticulous in following administrative policy, and very adept at playing Sea Org management politics, getting things done for his area he was over. Bill was CO ITO when I was the OEC Course Sup.

    Bill knew how to get things done, despite all the internal Sea Org politics.

    I looked upon Bill is sort of the middle brother, to the three tough guy Sea Org officer trio, Alex Sibersky being the oldest brother, Bill the next brother, and Kerry Gleason being the youngest brother.

    There's a whole context and bonding of those 3 in Sea Org history.

    Bill was meticulous, he knew how to use LRH administrative orders to get things done for the position he held as a Sea Org officer, he knew how to use LRH's orders.

    He was part of the famous or infamous Boston Command Team, that LRH praises in one of the LRH ED's about 5.4Xing org production. That was Alex, him, Kerry, and David Light. My first wife now ex wife, Ann Halblom Beatty (Ann was the FBO Flag for years, later Commodore's Staff Aide Div 3, and she was Sea Org Reserves under Bill's first Exec Strata setup, a temporary Exec Strata setup that existed at the FLB in 1979, Ann bombed and was RPFed, Ann had been under Bill at Boston Org, Nancy Many was there at Boston Org also, and Ann I don't think Bill wanted Ann as Treasury Exec Int, but Ann held some Treasury or Reserves position while the CS-Aides were transitioning into oblivion and the new Exec Strata was forming, there in 1979-1981ish).

    Bill Franks was successul at LAD as CO.

    Bill had been a successful CO DC org for years, when DC org was one of the top 3 or 4 producing Class 4/5 Orgs on the planet in the 1970s. Jeannie Danilovich (Hare, Franks, Bogvad) Sonnenfeld was very pivotal to DC's success (as she was later to ITO's growth and success).

    When he was CO Int Training Org, after a stint in the RPF, the CO ITO went from 8-10 staff up to 60-70 staff. He and his wife Jeannie (now Sonnenfeld, she's the ED Cinncy today) really knew how to build the ITO, Jeannie and Craig Ferrera did recruiting, the ITO traffic from LRH, Bill ran with that traffic, Bill picking up from where Greg Wilhere the 1st CO ITO left off, with Paul Koval as temp CO ITO inbetween, Paul not doing really anything but treading water until Bill came and with Jeannie then boomed ITO.

    Bill was a dynamic Sea Org officer who embodied the OEC FEBC materials, in all those materials BAD and PLUSES. He and Jeannie DID build ITO, some say Jeannie did most, but I'd say Bill knows and knew Sea Org internal push and shove politics, and used the LRH traffic to ITO to get the all important approvals and not being blocked from "just doing it."

    Bill got things done, to say the least.

    Lots of people praise him for doing things, I know lots, including myself, had some rough moments under Bill.

    To me, he was MORE real deal Sea Org officer than say Kerry Gleason, who was also a pretty sharp exec, but Bill yelled and screamed a lot less than Kerry screamed and ranted. Bill was more quiet and brooding, and frankly more scary, he had a threatening presence to back up his ethics presence, frankly, and I tried hard to do my job perfectly and by the book, so as NOT to give Bill reason to get mad at me. I don't agree with LRH's "Ethics Presence" policy letter, but Bill was good at applying the "Ethics Presence" policy. He did have it. I thought Bill ought to have had more ARC and light touch, but I got along mostly almost fine with Bill, and he backed me up tremendously in the OEC department, in fact if not for him, I'd not have had students to supervise, since Bill knew the politics in the management ranks HOW to get cooperation agreement in the Flag Bureaux, and Kerry Gleason was then CO FB, to get the OEC trainees sent to Flag. There was an LRH program called the "Oscar" program, and Bill pushed that program, thus ITO had people to train.

    When Bill was promoted from CO ITO to the ED International position, we in ITO at various times, read over the ITO LRH traffic.

    The LRH traffic to Bill, I thought was highly complementary, and some parts of that LRH traffic still sticks in my head today. LRH praised Bill for Bill's old tough Sea Org officer style. That was significant to me.

    I so wish we had ALL of LRH's traffic in the public domain, to today reflect on how LRH was playing the whole big "piano" of the Sea Org management people.

    Despite all of LRH's grievous faults, LRH did expend a massive amount of attention in his final years to SO MANY Sea Org officers who were doing myriad jobs in all echelons of the movement.

    LRH was like a Mussolini on steriods in terms of micromanaging, one might critically say.

    And were us observers of the Scientology movement, those interested in the details, to have a convention of ALL of the whole entourage of Sea Org members that LRH was in daily weekly communication with, by the old telex traffic / advices, we'd see just how extensive and intense LRH's full breadth of attention played out.

    LRH had a LOT of things going, LOT of orders, lot of directions he was urging action.

    IN all of this maelstrom of "change" of the late 1970s, LRH DID approve of Bill Franks, and did promote Bill to the first Executive Director International position.

    My opinion is Bill needed more allies, because when he rose to the lofty ED Int position, then it was not Bill pushing and getting his superiors to align with Bill's position as a lower down Sea Org officer trying to follow LRH's individual orders to his smaller zone, but NOT, as ED Int, Bill had a huge vacuum of people to help him do the ED Int position.

    I really want to have some discussions with Bill, longer range, on the Executive STrata.

    LRH in 1982, comes out strongly with much more about the Executive Strata, and Bill was driven out of the Sea Org, mainly I'll bet by Miscavige, so Bill did NOT have the luxury of seeing the LRH traffic to Bill's predecessor, Guilliaume Leserve.

    I have a decent memory of the LRH traffic on Exec Strata, most of it came out WHEN Bill was still ED Int and over Exec Strata, but there was ONE very crucial piece of Exec Strata LRH traffic that came out to Guilliaume, and I so wish we had it here in the public domain to chew over.

    I myself, still have the unreal hope that Scientology administratively will heal itself, fix itself.

    My experience, and I fear Bill will confirm it, is that almost one for one, the senior execs who defect or get pressured OUT of the Sea Org, think the administrative setup is unredeemable.

    I have always hoped the Exec Strata staff WOULD attain the "think tank" role that LRH wrote for them in LRH ED 339R Int.

    To build a real think tank, of top execs over their zones of Scientology, to me it is something that the "old" tough guy Sea Org executive style is inevitably going to clash with.

    In my opinion it takes a good decade to make some Exec Strata think tank experts that can actually strategically think with our current culture, and make the changes and reforms to knock out the "cult" out of the Scientology movement. (I'd send the Exec Strata members out to college, as part of their training lineup, frankly.)

    Building top Scientology administrative leadership, tt's a personnel problem of perpetual underestimated magnitude, and with current Scientology leadership (the one man extremely ignorant brutish dictator David Miscavige) who is NOT building up Watchdog Committee nor the Exec Strata, I personally think the cult atmosphere Scientology displays is gonna go on for a decade until new leadership and when parishioner ranked Scientologists finally get fed up and revolt, sort of like the 1981 or 1982 Mission Holders revolt, which I believe Bill was on the Mission Holders' side of that turmoil.


    The authoritarian "tough guy" Sea Org style transferred, I believe, by osmosis, my opinion, from the Bill Franks, Alex Sibersky, Kerry Gleason, leadership years, and it transferred to David Miscavige, Steve Marlowe,

    During the late 1970s, like 1977-1979, there was still quite a bit of LRH weekly traffic, to the CO's of the various Flag (remember this was the period when at the Flag Land Base, all of management was there, the Commodore's Staff Aides were still in existence and failing, the Flag Bureaux was the day to day, week to week management of the conts and orgs


    There is SO MUCH history Bill Franks has been a part of.

    If I had 50 Gs, I'd like to take 3 years off, and write Sea Org history.

    Bill was a really a HUGE player in Sea Org history.

    I hope to meet and interview Bill for Sea Org and LRH history.

    Bill Franks lived during the transformation from the old Commodore's Staff Aides and Flag Bu management setup, to the Watchdog Committee and Int Exec Strata setup that exists today.

    And Bill was a productive org executive, knew how to get his LRH orders complied with, and he had a good relationship with LRH, and LRH respected Bill as a Sea Org officer.

    What I think would be incredibly amazing, is for Bill Franks, Alex Sibersky, and Kerry Gleason to interview each other about their Sea Org careers, and history!

    The 3 were and might still be friends, I believe, and co lived a lot.

    Bill Franks posting, is very very historical.
    No doubt!!!
    "Scientology: The only game in the universe where the rapist is your ethics officer." - HelluvaHoax

    "Yes Scientology at this point is nothing but its own funeral. You might as well leave early and beat the traffic. " - Thrak

  3. #263
    Crusader Sindy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    6,131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Dent View Post
    Hello Bill,
    You've had many gracious welcomes here and now mine is among them.

    Your original post is really counter to the lynchpin of what is holding, I'd say, most of the active or semi-active scientologists in the church and making them pay the big bucks. With any luck it will cause many more blows!

    It would be of much value to link the continuity of the diminutive one's behavior stemming from 30 years ago to present. More about your imprisonment at Int, violations of human rights and if there were, specifically, any physical attacks to yourself or others may help to do this.

    There are lots of subjects to address and hopefully you will start many other threads as well or jump into existing ones.

    This thread has well over 7000 hits so far. That should tell you something! There are many lurkers out there as well as members. This board is an amazing wealth of information, history, insights and stories of the church and its operations. Your posts will add to that wealth. I hope you will benefit from its healing as well as from contributing to it.
    ( LOL..."The Diminutive One" ) BTW, how do you check hits to a thread?
    "Scientology: The only game in the universe where the rapist is your ethics officer." - HelluvaHoax

    "Yes Scientology at this point is nothing but its own funeral. You might as well leave early and beat the traffic. " - Thrak

  4. #264
    Silver Meritorious Patron Arthur Dent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,978

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthia View Post
    ( LOL..."The Diminutive One" ) BTW, how do you check hits to a thread?


    Hi Synthia! It is the number you see right after the name of the thread. Next number is number of replies.
    Arthur Dent.



    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=16696
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?24109



    Lurkers, hate to disappoint, but it really is a cult. Sorry.

  5. #265
    Crusader Sindy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    6,131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Dent View Post
    Hi Synthia! It is the number you see right after the name of the thread. Next number is number of replies.
    Oh!!! That's what those numbers mean. Thank you and hello!
    "Scientology: The only game in the universe where the rapist is your ethics officer." - HelluvaHoax

    "Yes Scientology at this point is nothing but its own funeral. You might as well leave early and beat the traffic. " - Thrak

  6. #266
    Traveler of time/space AlphOhm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Koyaanisqatsi
    Posts
    908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bill franks View Post
    Yes, I wrote it and all I can add is that Hubbard often wrote his C/S's on foolscap paper and I am sure the paper was disappeared but this is an accurate telling of what Hubbard thought of his o/w tech. best, Bill franks
    Bill, thank you for your information !
    Mom's gonna fix it all soon.

  7. #267
    Gold Meritorious Patron afaceinthecrowd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    U. S.
    Posts
    4,561

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy View Post
    Mr Franks,

    Why now? What made you decide to speak up about this?

    I do welcome any info on how we were brainwashed. The info about O/W's is quite astounding for me. Little by little if we can take all those lies fed to us and replace with the truth can only help us.
    When I left the SO I immersed myself in the "Wog" world. I didn't want to be around Scns or dependant on Scns or readily accessible to Scns. I had real world work skills and experience, a college education and didn't have to work for an Scn "selling laser prints".

    I raised and well educated children...outside of Scn...built a business and am now retired. Up until coming to this Board, all of my friends were "wogs" and up until two years ago or so I had not the sightest interest in what was going on with Scn or in being in contact with exes. My focus and energy was on my family, friends, business and living a life.

    Now I know I'm no Bill Franks, but, I do understand how someone that knew El Ron, Mary Sue and Da Monster can walk away, build a life and in their later years come back around to reflecting and revisiting their past, and the path they have walked.

    Face
    Last edited by afaceinthecrowd; 27th February 2011 at 06:05 PM.
    Living is a Metaphor of Life

  8. #268
    Patron with Honors chuckbeatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    412

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaHoax! View Post
    While it is MORE sane to say people blow from ARC-Xs than to say they blow because of O/W's......that is not really the total picture either.

    NAZI ALERT!

    What if someone escaped a concentration camp?

    Was it because they were ARC-Xen?

    I don't think so.

    That is a very odd, culty way to look at things.

    They escaped because they were being tortured, terrorized and killed.

    What's wrong with English?

    So why did Scientologists "blow"?

    The first part of the answer is THEY DID NOT BLOW.

    They escaped.

    And they didn't escape because of their "case" (ArcX, O/W, etc...)

    They escaped because they became smart enough or strong enough to escape.

    Or thru sheer desperate self-preservation.

    That ain't no ArcX.

    That's sanity.

    Agreed. And Hubbard gives a lot of options, if you lay out all his repair lists, for what could cause upsets.

    Miscommunication, wrong indications, etc.

    The first sit down with the auditor step of the Introspection Rundown is something I experienced firsthand, and the auditor digs up from your life, moments which caused you to introvert, and indicates those moments to you.

    While on the Int RPF, and while in progress wanting to officially route out of the Sea Org, in 1997, I had the first steps of the Introspection Rundown run on me, and we ran as the very first incident, the incident when I was sitting in the Office of Special Affairs 10th floor conference room, on video camera, with Jeannie Gavigon Reynolds, Kirsten Caetano, Uwe Stuckenbrock, and Glen Stilo, with this mea culpa legal doc admission of my unseemly past deeds, concocted by Jeannie Gavigon Reynolds, for me to sign.

    It was the wrong indication predicament of my life, and I admit that running this incident as the first and MOST intense wrong indication of my life, on the Introspection Rundown, delivered by Rich Gilbert (CLass 8 CST staffer on the Int RPF) and Bruce Hines Class 9 from Snr C/S Int Office, on the RPF himself, this was Feb 1997 out at the Happy Valley RPF, well that tiny correct indication, DID undo a lot of the hurt of that ridiculously wrong indication OSA moment.

    So talking to fellow human beings by someone who understands, DOES relieve the predicaments.

    Really Hubbard's tech is unregulated talk therapy, with all sorts of angles on how to help the patient (parishioner) unravel the hurt they've lived.

    It's not something I any more recommend, but because it is now living under the guise of a religion, this psychotherapy that Scientology does DO, has to be dissected by the psychotherapy people.

    That in the US, they let Dianetics and Scientology go on and on, and on, and the fact that people DO (even I will admit, as I said in this incident when I did the first steps of the Introspection Rundown) did have some subjective relief, from Hubbard's mental therapy detailed procedures.

    I mean the whole layout of LRH's detailed technical questions, grouped in "rundowns", with rudiments before almost all sessions (a few exceptions, when the patient/parishioner is really mentally in anguish, the ruds are dispensed with, as is the case with the Introspection Rundown).

    I think Scientology's therapy procedures warrant peer research and dissection.

    Scientology has the pass from US authorities on it's religion status.

    I think the cult aspects of Scientology are mainly the administrative and member control policies that are MOST deserving of wholesale reform.

    And after that, the tech therapy of Scientology has to be peer reviewed and dissected, for it is in the tech, that the staunch followers of Scientology, witness the resurgence of the "independents" who are quite happy with their application of this therapy to one another.

    The LIC repair list, is quite an amazing repair list. When I studied it in detail on the RPF, I squirreled and self audited it secretly on myself, just reading and thinking answers to the questions, on myself, and I popped off all sorts of thoughts that unraveled all sorts of the crap predicaments I was experiencings AS a Sea Org members caught up where I was at that time.

    So the actual concepts that the tech therapy questions in Hubbard's Scientology DO provoke mental responses, and DO seem to have some beneficial effects.

    It is, I believe a more complex bigger problem, the interaction of the admin rule system, the pecking order which is itself an accumulation of Hubbard's years and years of years of policy rules, and then the normal human imperfections of the members, trapping their fellow members, due to the member's own personal flaws.

    How much of Hubbard's tech is helpful needs to be seperated out.

    The independents, I believe, are proof that the admin rules that slavishy can be used to dominate and control, are dispensed with, by the independents to their group benefit.

    But this thread, on this tech admission by LRH, to get technical, would mean read pages 21-27 of the "Book of Case Remedies" and look at what LRH did AFTER 1981-1982 when LRH "came back on the lines" and started issuing orders to the Int people about what to do with their existing scene as reported by them to LRH.

    The LRH 1982 focus went to "false purpose security checking", and the RPF has since that time to now, been overt digging, evil purpose locating, prior confusion locating, UNTIL the RPF member changed their "viewpoint", and THAT for sure is another form of mental control in itself! The Truth Rundown truly almost inevitably can result in mental therapy brainwashing. The Truth Rundown needs to be researched, we need the Truth Rundown issues in the public domain to study and expose it.

    LRH was responsible for this swing to False Purpose Rundown and Truth Rundown, which arguably as they are being applied on the RPF, are brainwashing if they don't let the RPF members OUT of the Catch 22 situation, and I lived that Catch 22 on the RPF, finally exiting putting on a face that would allow me out of that charade. The RPF is the ultimate mind dodging game, if one is upset validly with Scientology's and the Sea Org's actual faults.
    Last edited by chuckbeatty; 27th February 2011 at 07:58 PM.
    Chuck Beatty
    ex Sea Org (1975-2003)
    412-260-1170
    chuckbeatty77@aol.com

    "I think a lot of my father's stuff doesn't work. So I false report whenever I need to. Personally, I think my father's crazy."
    - Quentin Hubbard Class 12 Scientologist, statement to Dennis Erlich
    http://www.lermanet.com/exit/quentincoroner.htm

  9. Thanks Boojuum, ClearEyed says "thank you" for this post
  10. #269

    Default

    Thanks Bill for joining and friending me. Roger B good point on ARCX. I would liken this to Libya where Qaddafi is killing people and people are upset. It makes no difference to "remove the arcx" he is still killing people to subjugate them but maybe that is the whole point.
    I do wish David Mayo could join or Julie and others but they are probably legally gagged. (Rinder should know something about that).

  11. #270
    Angelic Poster TG1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    5,530

    Default

    I'll throw this out there -- not because I know this is true -- but because I've read it in various places. Perhaps others who have direct knowledge will correct it if it's wrong or will confirm it if it's right.

    I've read / heard the Mayos got around $5 million as a settlement/gag fee, needed and used mainly to pay legal bills, which had mounted considerably.

    Right? Wrong? Dox? Plox?

    TG1

Page 27 of 56 FirstFirst ... 171819202122232425262728293031323334353637 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Hubbard Explains Brainwashing
    By AnonKat in forum L Ron Hubbard
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 29th July 2013, 06:35 PM
  2. Brainwashing (Long)
    By Ogsonofgroo in forum General Scientology Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 25th April 2010, 01:52 PM
  3. Scientology Brainwashing Tape
    By AnonKat in forum Chanology and Anonymous videos (Scientology-related)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 21st March 2010, 02:17 PM
  4. Brainwashing
    By UkAnony in forum General Scientology Discussion
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 19th October 2008, 02:43 AM
  5. Brainwashing Manual Parallels
    By Veda in forum Great Web Sites and Links
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 14th June 2008, 10:24 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •