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Thread: Bill Frank's story about brainwashing (thread merge)

  1. #321
    Silver Meritorious Patron jenni with an eye's Avatar
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    Hi Bill



    so much for joining us.

    I look forward to reading more from you.

    Having you here has certainly created a lot of interest.

    I have noticed that some more newbies have joined in as well.

    So to all.
    "You know, sometimes you just need time to sit out on the back step with a Milk Arrowroot biscuit".

    - Purple Rain.


    Free to be me.

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=13822
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=22130

  2. #322
    Crusader RogerB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill franks View Post
    I publish this now for the reason that some good friends, Gregg Wells, Dennis Erlich, Marsha Sorenson, and Peggy Daroesman encoursaged me to publish it, and 2) that there was a forum where it would be read. I should say that this is Not the first time I have tried to get the word out but for many reasons no one took notice. i am thankful that there is now such a good forum to receive this. wogman
    Hear, hear, on this one Bill!

    ESMB is (now) an honest forum where those who can and who wish to express the truth can be heard and appreciated.

    As you surely have seen, your posting with us is most appreciated.

    Rog
    Life is supposed to be enjoyed, Mate!

    Don't show me the money . . . give me the TRUTH!
    Visit: http://knowledgism-practice-group.org

  3. #323
    Silver Meritorious Patron Petey C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill franks View Post
    I publish this now for the reason that some good friends, Gregg Wells, Dennis Erlich, Marsha Sorenson, and Peggy Daroesman encoursaged me to publish it, and 2) that there was a forum where it would be read. I should say that this is Not the first time I have tried to get the word out but for many reasons no one took notice. i am thankful that there is now such a good forum to receive this. wogman
    And this is definitely a good forum. Now, let's hear some more war stories! I'm enjoying this ...

    Petey

  4. #324
    Crusader lkwdblds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckbeatty View Post
    They're already holding themselves together with their offspring, like any religious movement or communally organized group with as many rules that the members agree to, will eventually evolve into.

    They've got a large percentage of their new Sea Org members from Scientologist offspring.

    Were we to have detailed survey info on the Sea Org members, their histories, we'd see that MORE of the new Sea Org members are 2nd and 3rd generation Scientology offspring.

    The problem is not recruiting from the outside world, it's recruiting from within the offspring of the existing Scientologists.

    If one wanted to intercede in Sea Org recruitment, then getting the message to Scientologists' kids, would be the way to go to undermine future Sea Org recruitment.

    How Scientologists shield their kids from the internet Scientology criticism, THAT is the drawn battleline. The internet is enemy territory to Scientologists, and getting the offspring to venture and read freely and widely about Scientology on the internet, is positive.
    Excellent point, Chuck!

    My son was recruited at age 15 in 1998 for Sea Org. He was promised training as an Establishment Officer (ESTO). Instead he was going to be sent out on tour to recruit other teen agers. He objected and demanded his ESTO training. He was put on the EPF (not the RPF). He wanted out so he confessed that he had pirated some music off of the internet without paying for it. He was put on a routing form and routed out in about a month. My wife and I did not know this was going on. By law, he was given $500 severance pay and permanently ignored his $2,300 Freeloader Debt. He has had nothing more to do with Scn since then.

    We sent my daughter to the same Org when she was 12 to do the Student Hat. Immediately recruitement started. We transferred her to CCLA at age 13. That was even worse, she was pulled out of course at lunch time and sent for a recruitment cycle by car, a mile away from the Org without my permission. This cycle lasted many hours and was still going on when I went to pick her up from course. This time not only my daughter quit Scientology but I did as well. I was so upset with CCLA that I was considering going to the police to report her as kidnapped.

    In retrospect, I am very proud of my Son. He had enough integrity to demand from the S.O. what was promised and he had enough ingenuity to figure out on his own, a method of quickly getting routed out.

    Besides perpetuating the ranks of the Sea Org with the children of their members, I believe the other thing which has kept Scientology going and enabled them to pull in big money clients is their success in recruiting celebrites.

    Just as Hubbard had initially laid out in the 50's and again in the 60's in a meeting with Flag execs on the Apollo (an audio tape of which was made), celebrities, acting as "Opinion Leaders" were the best means of growing Scientology in numbers as well as monetarily. Nothing much happened in the 50's but in the 60's Yvonne Gilham, later Jentzsch, happened to be present at Hubbard's briefing and volunteered to run with the ball and set up the Celebrity Centre Network. This she personally did with flying colors and CC began operation in early 1970 in Los Angeles.

    I speculate that had Yvonne not done what she did to found Celebrity Centre, Scientology might not even still be around today. The large number of well known and famous Scn Celebrities have been instrumental in recruiting new members and building up the finances of Scientology. The Celebrity members also have been instrumental in fighting off attacks against C of S.
    Lakey
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you've earned but not greed to want to take someone else's money."
    -Thomas Sowell

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  6. #325
    Gold Meritorious Sponsor HelluvaHoax!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    You clearly succeeded. I take it the above is your success story.
    Yes, and you may publish my Success Story in the FZ or wherever else theta beings go to get pep talks about going up the Bridge. All permissions granted.

    SUCCESS STORY

    Wow! Wow ! Wow! I am totally blown away by the gains
    I had from that last session! I was able to "as-is" all of the
    "charge" and "case" that I accumulated from the past 96
    trillion years--simply by realizing that if I blow Scientology,
    all my case and charge suddenly and magically blow too. I
    can't thank Ron enough for the ensuring that the tech is so
    entirely unworkable that there was nothing to keep me trapped
    in his delusional little Galaxy-sector-salvaging cult.
    ________________________

    Scientology literally saved my life! Without Ron's books I would have frozen to death!!! (see avatar)

    Scientology in one word? HelluvaHoax!

    I never felt as free as when I freed myself from "Total Freedom".

    For offended Scientologists reading this blasphemy about L. Ron Hubbard---my apologies for talking about real life without lying to you, like Scientology, with goo-goo theta-talk. I know you don't have a floating needle right now. You're not supposed to.

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  8. #326
    Sponsor Veda's Avatar
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    The excerpts below would seem to be additional "admissions" from Hubbard. In this case, made to David Mayo around 1978/79. This won't be news to many on ESMB, but some curious lurkers might find it interesting.

    Excerpt from the 1991 David Mayo article on 'Clear'. (And a link to the complete article. http://www.ivymag.org/iv-01-02.html):

    "It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point, and that they therefore had no reactive mind...

    "[Clear] is not an attainable state (at least given our present level of technology)."


    And here's an excerpt from author Russell Miller's interview of David Mayo from August 1986. (Complete interview: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/S...views/mayo.htm) :

    "What worried me was when I saw things he did that showed his intentions were different from what they appeared to be. I began to realize he wasn't acting for the public good or for the benefit of Mankind...

    "He told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough."

  9. #327
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    I have not posted here in a long time but feel I must say something now.

    Bill, I want to thank you for revealing this "small" piece of the puzzle. As Feral mentioned early on in this thread, what we experienced, when on OTVll, and for me OTVlll also, in the never ending search for all those "O/Ws" we just had to have, those introverting, constant sec checks, the constant dwelling on "What have I done" What am I withholding", it "must be me", "has to be me", resulted in nothing but introversion and more introversion. All the "looking for something that isn't there", making "something out of nothing" to have something to come up with...man. I'd never wish anyone to go through that. Ever. Unsafe to even bring up perhaps having an "ARCX" about something or with someone, however valid.

    What you've revealed to us applies not to just wanting to or accomplishing leaving Scientology, but what about desperately wanting to "blow" a session that was grinding beyond and beyond any reason, no answer accepted, finding yourself losing your sanity? The same grinding question over and over looking for the "what have I done?" "I must have done something"

    I've gone from astonishment, to being pissed off, to being relieved, to being anxious, to being just about all ranges of emotions. I guess, even after spending the last two years repairing myself and stripping off all the cult indoctrination, regaining my own identity, stripping off the lies, I still gave credit to, as I now realized, to much of the "tech" of O/W and "blowing". Still wondered if there wasn't something I wasn't being truthful with myself about or if others weren't being truthful with themselves about. Man, what a mind screw.

    This is, in my opinion, the hugest implication of deception across the boards, bar none, in all the Scientology false tech exposures.

    Thanks again,
    Rae

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  11. #328
    Crusader ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckbeatty View Post
    They're already holding themselves together with their offspring, like any religious movement or communally organized group with as many rules that the members agree to, will eventually evolve into.

    They've got a large percentage of their new Sea Org members from Scientologist offspring.

    Were we to have detailed survey info on the Sea Org members, their histories, we'd see that MORE of the new Sea Org members are 2nd and 3rd generation Scientology offspring.

    The problem is not recruiting from the outside world, it's recruiting from within the offspring of the existing Scientologists.

    If one wanted to intercede in Sea Org recruitment, then getting the message to Scientologists' kids, would be the way to go to undermine future Sea Org recruitment.

    How Scientologists shield their kids from the internet Scientology criticism, THAT is the drawn battleline. The internet is enemy territory to Scientologists, and getting the offspring to venture and read freely and widely about Scientology on the internet, is positive.
    An organization like Scientology can not survive on offspring alone, it's dysfunctional management and ever increasing overhead will bury it. A con game like Scientology needs a steady stream of new cards to play or it folds. Scientology can not survive in an open society, it will continue to die a slow death just as all of the other scams that promised unobtainable results. For some reason Scientology had a better run than most probably because of the timing, if anything that is about the only thing of value it has to offer, a case study in why it managed to last as long as it did.
    Yes lurkers you are not alone, everyone thinks Scientology is creepy, it's not just you

    http://www.mediacurves.com/Religion/...logy/Index.cfm

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  13. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill franks View Post
    I publish this now for the reason that some good friends, Gregg Wells, Dennis Erlich, Marsha Sorenson, and Peggy Daroesman encoursaged me to publish it, and 2) that there was a forum where it would be read. I should say that this is Not the first time I have tried to get the word out but for many reasons no one took notice. i am thankful that there is now such a good forum to receive this. wogman
    Thanks for answering.

  14. #330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rae View Post
    I have not posted here in a long time but feel I must say something now.

    Bill, I want to thank you for revealing this "small" piece of the puzzle. As Feral mentioned early on in this thread, what we experienced, when on OTVll, and for me OTVlll also, in the never ending search for all those "O/Ws" we just had to have, those introverting, constant sec checks, the constant dwelling on "What have I done" What am I withholding", it "must be me", "has to be me", resulted in nothing but introversion and more introversion. All the "looking for something that isn't there", making "something out of nothing" to have something to come up with...man. I'd never wish anyone to go through that. Ever. Unsafe to even bring up perhaps having an "ARCX" about something or with someone, however valid.

    What you've revealed to us applies not to just wanting to or accomplishing leaving Scientology, but what about desperately wanting to "blow" a session that was grinding beyond and beyond any reason, no answer accepted, finding yourself losing your sanity? The same grinding question over and over looking for the "what have I done?" "I must have done something"

    I've gone from astonishment, to being pissed off, to being relieved, to being anxious, to being just about all ranges of emotions. I guess, even after spending the last two years repairing myself and stripping off all the cult indoctrination, regaining my own identity, stripping off the lies, I still gave credit to, as I now realized, to much of the "tech" of O/W and "blowing". Still wondered if there wasn't something I wasn't being truthful with myself about or if others weren't being truthful with themselves about. Man, what a mind screw.

    This is, in my opinion, the hugest implication of deception across the boards, bar none, in all the Scientology false tech exposures.

    Thanks again,
    Rae
    Hi Rae, nice to have you posting again. No need to wonder anymore. Or fall prey to spinning in because of a lie intended to keep one spinning in. Certainly your post says it all, at least for me. I am sure it does for many. Thanks so much.
    ((HUGGS))
    Mary
    Last edited by AnonyMary; 28th February 2011 at 01:02 AM. Reason: typo
    ~ Mary McConnell, my nom de plume
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