Marty Rathbun's OSA Investigations Hat Pack

[Panda Termint]

I know that you used to work in the GO for many years, Panda.

Have you ever seen this hat pack, and the technology used in the OSA investigations unit?

You were in Scientology for 30 years, is that correct?

And you reached the level of OT 8. Is that also correct?

How easy has it been for you to just drop all your GO/OSA type training and responses and just become a wog again after all that?

I ask because I believe it is more likely that Marty and Mike are just like all of us who have had to examine their cult indoctrination and find it very difficult to drop old habits.

And since Marty and Mike still consider themselves Scientologists, and opinion leaders for the "real LRH Scientology", they are even less likely to drop their indoc than you are.

That's why I said what I said.

Are you saying that Marty and Mike are even better at dropping their cult indoc than the rest of us?

Al, I'll take this up but in doing so I must first express how completely disappointed I am. In the last few days I have seen you knowingly Ad Hom'ing, dissembling/lying (in the form of fabricated accusations and cover-your-ass about-turns) and compromising you supposedly firmly-held principles (in the form of discouraging further discussion and free speech here on ESMB). I really don't know why you've chosen this approach.

Here are the answers to your questions:

I know that you used to work in the GO for many years, Panda.

I worked for the GO as a GAS (Guardian Assistant Scientologist - a scientology public who does work for the GO). I did this for about 5 years off and on, early in my scientology career.

Have you ever seen this hat pack, and the technology used in the OSA investigations unit?

I never saw it at the time but did see Intel materials and hatting materials as they applied to the work I was doing for the GO. My hatting was done on a need-to-know basis. I read the Full Hat Pack as posted by Frank in 2008, after I'd resigned from the CofS. I was surprised by how much of the material I knew.

You were in Scientology for 30 years, is that correct?

I was in for more than 30 years

And you reached the level of OT 8. Is that also correct?

Yes.

How easy has it been for you to just drop all your GO/OSA type training and responses and just become a wog again after all that?

I'd long since rid myself of the GO/OSA mindset, even when I was still a scientologist. I'd been out of that scene for decades and always refused attempts by OSA to pull me back in. The only thing I ever did for OSA in the last 30 years was write a few letters-to-the-editor defending scientology. Standard stuff to counter bad media. As far as being a "wog"; I don't think that it's possible to unknow some things, I'm definitely much changed by my experiences in scientology. Anyone who went the route I went and thinks he isn't changed by the experience, is obviously pretending to himself.

I ask because I believe it is more likely that Marty and Mike are just like all of us who have had to examine their cult indoctrination and find it very difficult to drop old habits.

Anything is possible but I'd be a little more circumspect than you when it comes to assuming that they've "examine(d) their cult indoctrination". I have no idea whether or not they've examined it at all.

And since Marty and Mike still consider themselves Scientologists, and opinion leaders for the "real LRH Scientology", they are even less likely to drop their indoc than you are.

The implication inherent in this statement is that you somehow think I have had some trouble with it. You're either mistaken or misinformed. As for Marty and Mike, so what? They're still scientologists.

That's why I said what I said.

OK, if you say so.

Are you saying that Marty and Mike are even better at dropping their cult indoc than the rest of us?

I never said that and I wonder how you arrived at that question/conclusion from anything I've said. My answer to the question you (sort of) ask is, "No."

So there you go, I hope that helps.

I'm sorry that my comments on this thread and the CrowdSource thread are making you react in, what is to me, such an odd way, it has really surprised me.

Can We Ever Be Friends?

[Alanzo]

My point, Panda, is that given the difficulty we all have of dropping our cult indoctrination, it is not simply wishful thinking on my part that Marty and Mike are applying the Scientology technology they applied for decades as the heads of OSA - especially since they still believe they are Scientologists.

I might be wrong.

But it is much more likely that I am right than you seem willing to admit, for some reason.

[paradox]

My point, Panda, is that given the difficulty we all have of dropping our cult indoctrination, it is not simply wishful thinking on my part that Marty and Mike are applying the Scientology technology they applied for decades as the heads of OSA - especially since they still believe they are Scientologists.

I might be wrong.

But it is much more likely that I am right than you seem willing to admit, for some reason.

For my part, I think you are very much correct about the emphasized portion above. Just not about the point you wrote in the OP. How much of it they apply, to whom, and how far they're willing to go with it I have no idea. Just my opinion, leopard spots and all that.

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

My point, Panda, is that given the difficulty we all have of dropping our cult indoctrination, it is not simply wishful thinking on my part that Marty and Mike are applying the Scientology technology they applied for decades as the heads of OSA - especially since they still believe they are Scientologists.

I might be wrong.

But it is much more likely that I am right than you seem willing to admit, for some reason.

I think you're right, I don't see them putting down the crack pipe anytime soon, because they do not think they have a problem. In this case the crack pipe is Hubbard's Batshit Crazy Scape Opera Game that is still controlling their lives. They are going down the same road to insanity as every other so called leader of the Freezone has before them. BTW are Virginia and Michael McClaughry still searching for Hubbard's spaceship and operating Ron's Independent Scietnology OSA Unit, or have they finally gotten some help for their mental illness?

[Voltaire's Child]

Pooks is another person who's done much to explain to people how OSA does things.

[degraded being]

My point, Panda, is that given the difficulty we all have of dropping our cult indoctrination, it is not simply wishful thinking on my part that Marty and Mike are applying the Scientology technology they applied for decades as the heads of OSA - especially since they still believe they are Scientologists.

I might be wrong.

But it is much more likely that I am right than you seem willing to admit, for some reason.

From what I have read, you are talking about two related but separate things. There was the quoted bit from Marty:

"...I am posting Miscavige’s immediate knee-jerk response to my post last night, Human Rights Cover Up. This is being issued on all OSA Indy Ops Unit lines. I could write a five page analysis, but I am confident that due to the intelligence level of the participants here its signficance requires no explanation."

Some posters here interpreted that differently than you did AL
FWIW I read it the same way they do. Your other issue/point is about how likely it is that Marty and Mike are using OSA technolgy that they applied for decades.

My intuition based on reading from the internet is that M&M are very likely to be using the OSA tech that they practised for decades. But that to me is a separate question from the reading of the specific quote of Marty's that you posted, which looks to be more likely about the COS OSA. They do after all have their OSA running full bore around Marty and the indies too.

[Ladybird]

Why hasn't COS sued Marty and the Indies for using copyrighted scientology tech? I find it suspicious. Scientology has sued for much less, including people trying to sell their own e-meters on e-bay or using an image in a cartoon.



Marty seems to have free reign to use all the cult copy rights. I am not holding my breath, but I do think we will see Marty ascend to the throne when DM "retires" to Bulgravia. I don't think Marty or DM have one ounce of belief in scientology. I think they both see it as the scam it is and their only interest is in cashing in.

[Alanzo]

From what I have read, you are talking about two related but separate things. There was the quoted bit from Marty:

"...I am posting Miscavige’s immediate knee-jerk response to my post last night, Human Rights Cover Up. This is being issued on all OSA Indy Ops Unit lines. I could write a five page analysis, but I am confident that due to the intelligence level of the participants here its signficance requires no explanation."

Some posters here interpreted that differently than you did AL
FWIW I read it the same way they do. Your other issue/point is about how likely it is that Marty and Mike are using OSA technolgy that they applied for decades.

My intuition based on reading from the internet is that M&M are very likely to be using the OSA tech that they practised for decades. But that to me is a separate question from the reading of the specific quote of Marty's that you posted, which looks to be more likely about the COS OSA. They do after all have their OSA running full bore around Marty and the indies too.

Yes. These are separate issues. And yes, as I have said, I probably interpreted this wrongly this morning when I saw it.

This particular phrase is probably not evidence that he is running his own OSA invest unit using his Indy resources. I get excited sometimes. And I'm certainly glad to have everyone tamp me down when I need it.

But Marty is running his own OSA invest unit using his indy resources, and my minsinterpretation of this particular sentence this morning is not an example of "wishful thinking" on my part. It is an example of a misinterpretation of an unclear sentence that Marty wrote.

My thinking that Marty is fully dramatizing his Scientology Personality is not wishful thinking. It is clearly established, and a completely obvious fact.

[Panda Termint]

My point, Panda, is that given the difficulty we all have of dropping our cult indoctrination, it is not simply wishful thinking on my part that Marty and Mike are applying the Scientology technology they applied for decades as the heads of OSA - especially since they still believe they are Scientologists.

I might be wrong.

But it is much more likely that I am right than you seem willing to admit, for some reason.

Al, I agree that it is unlikely that Marty and Mike would cease using what they know works. When you're a scientologist, that's what you do, right?

Whether or not that includes using OSA-tech to manipulate people is something to be aware of but not necessarily a given. I'd surmise that Marty and Mike would use what they know works, they're certainly running a "noisy investigation" but, then again, so are you!

My comment about "wishful thinking" was aimed at your original interpretation of what Marty had posted. If Marty were to announce that he had established an Independent's OSA (as you originally surmised) that would be a Godsend to his critics, no? That's what the "wishful thinking" comment refers to.

As I said in answer to your later questions, anything is possible but let's not build imaginary windmills of straw just so we can blow those non-existent windmills down.

I see you changed the title of the thread. That might get a bit more thread action but it doesn't make the premise any more real.

I'm a little concerned about your current penchant for inventing things to discuss and argue about but I'm also well aware of the fact that critiquing critics is seldom a rewarding or popular activity so I'll leave it at that. Let's see what we see.

[Alanzo]

Al, I agree that it is unlikely that Marty and Mike would cease using what they know works. When you're a scientologist, that's what you do, right?

Whether or not that includes using OSA-tech to manipulate people is something to be aware of but not necessarily a given. I'd surmise that Marty and Mike would use what they know works.

My comment about "wishful thinking" was aimed at your original interpretation of what Marty had posted. If Marty were to announce that he had established an Independent's OSA (as you originally surmised) that would be a Godsend to his critics, no? That's what the "wishful thinking" comment refers to.

All right Panda.

As I said in answer to your later questions, anything is possible but let's not build imaginary windmills of straw just so we can blow those non-existent windmills down.

I see you changed the title of the thread. That might get a bit more thread action but it doesn't make the premise any more real.

And what was my premise for this thread - as you see it - that lacks reality?

In short, I'm a little concerned about your current penchant for inventing things to discuss and argue about.

My "current penchant" for "inventing things" to "discuss and argue about".

What, exactly, is my invention here? And how, exactly, does this form a "penchant"?

I'm also well aware of the fact that critiquing critics is seldom a rewarding or popular activity so I'll leave it at that. Let's see what we see.

Yeah, well, the way you do it, by the use of generalized put-downs, and through the building of false "reputations", can not be all that rewarding for you.

So why don't you knock it off then?