A Current Affair and ABC Lateline on Fair Work

[GoNuclear]

Pete,

The Australian government has never been loathe to require religious organisations, incorporated or not, to comply with various laws, including labour and tax laws. This country is quite different from the USA in that respect. Yes, they do grant concessions re taxation, but that's due to the expectation that religious organisations meet public needs of various kinds, including (for most of them) social inclusion.

Still, it is mighty nice to see our government stepping up. I certainly hope that the final report meets my expectations!

The point I was trying to make regarding my post is this is a double edged sword, and that govt. stepping up not only cuts the balls off of the Cof$, but further empowers the govt. in the area of regulating churches that are incorporated. As a nation moves into tyranny, govt. cracks down on churches that want to remain independent while tolerating only certain govt. approved churches. The communist party in the Soviet Union had a deal going with the Eastern Orthodox Church while persecuting small independent churches. If you went to confession you were talking with the Cheka, later known as the NKVD and the KGB, aka the committee for state security ... the motto being "the sword and shield of the communist party."
When government becomes God it doesn't want any rivals.

Here in the US, no church has gone further out of its way to make government its God. They rest their legitimacy on being recognized as a religion by the IRS. Since when does a church need to be recognized by a bill collector to be legitimate? Therefore it is only fitting that they are forced to pay back wages/minimum wages, they are the ones that stuck their foot in the bear trap and have nobody to blame but themselves. And in doing so, they have served their true spiritual master who is using them to sharpen his sword to go after Christian churches that have saddled themselves with the same legal vulnerability.

Pete

[Lohan2008]

[Happy Days]

Wonderful wonderful ...

Thanks Deano you were great on ACA but of course the CoS won't see it like that... even though they recently body routed you up into the ACT Org... and now look what's happened big hugs to you and Sir Facer ...

ABC Lateline was just great and the gates have now opened for claims against the CoS Australia and I hope FWO are ready.

Also what a 'conflict of interest' for OSA ANZO ... they too don't get paid, they too are getting older with no retirement plan and have little or no options if they wish to leave their employment due to money constraints etc.

So does OSA ANZO fight tooth and nail for the cause and give up potential income (pay) for themselves or do they hope like hell it goes the ex's way and the CoS fail in their legal battle and a big fat pay cheque is coming their way and their financial future is looking so much brighter ... what a moral dilemma

More disagreement checks for Vicki Dunstun on this one for sure ... hey Vick

Or will OSA ANZO be bypassed on this hot hot flap and OSA terminals from other countries come in and fight for the cause .... because at the end of the day they will end up with the same 'no pay scenario' at their orgs when we are successful here in Oz.

Will Int Mgt bail out the Aussie CoS????

So many questions

[jenni with an eye]

Great job Dean

Excellent reports by both ACA and Lateline.

Thanks Zhent for getting these up so quickly.

'Volunteers'....

Yep... I wonder when the last 'volunteeer' was 'allowed' to spend a day with his/her family....or when the last 'volunteer' was 'allowed' to spend public holidays with family and friends and not working their arse off in the church of scientology.

Yep...I also wonder when the last 'volunteer' was not bullied and berated for not being upstat.

Yep...'volunteers'...so that explains why the sign in Melbourne org says 'now hiring'..

Yep...that explains everything...

[Free to shine]

Some other media:

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1226136433924

Scientology hits back over unfair pay claims

THE Church of Scientology is disputing that it unfairly pays its workers and is upset that a draft report has been released.

A final report by the Fair Work Ombudsman is due for release later this week, but a draft report has found some workers were paid as little as $10 a week by the church despite it earning more than $17 million in 2009.

It contains allegations of false imprisonment and forced labour.

"The allegations ... may potentially be a breach of the provisions of the Criminal Code Act 1995 dealing with slavery ... the Fair Work Ombudsman will refer the witnesses' allegations to the relevant authority for further investigation," ABC Television quoted the draft report as saying.

It also found the church had incorrectly classified as volunteers or voluntary workers people who were entitled to be classified as employees, which could mean it is forced to backpay people if the final statement of findings reflects the draft report.

The church has released a statement saying religious and community work is undertaken by volunteers and those doing religious service.

"This is no different to many other charities and religions in Australia, which rely upon the generosity of their volunteer workers and ours do so freely, wishing to help their Church and community," the church said.

It also said it was wrong to say that the church had applied to the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) to register a new company name, two days after it received the draft findings.

It said the NSW Office of Fair Trading had instructed it to transfer its registration to ASIC in late 2009.

"The transition required a great deal of work by volunteers Church of Scientology staff and was only completed in May 2011 and the filing was entirely coincidental," the church said.

"The suggestion that the change in registration was designed to circumvent any negative findings against the church by the Fair Work Ombudsman is outrageous, wrong and defamatory."

The church also said the draft report was supposed to remain confidential.

"It is quite unfair for any analysis of such draft finding to take place when they are not the final decision of the regulatory authority."

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...#ixzz1XsR3wVex

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226136281876

Scientologists face low-pay accusations from Fair Work Ombudsman
THE Church of Scientology has been accused of underpaying workers to the extent that it may face criminal charges, according to a draft report by the Fair Work Ombudsman.

Following allegations of Scientology employees working excessively long hours for little pay last year, the Fair Work Ombudsman launched an investigation into the organisation's practices.

According to the draft report from the ombudsman, obtained by the ABC's Lateline program, some work practices may have been in breach of criminal laws.

"The allegations . . . may potentially be a breach of the provisions of the Criminal Code Act 1995 . . . the Fair Work Ombudsman will refer the witnesses' allegations to the relevant authority for further investigation," the draft report stated.

Allegations aired on the ABC a year earlier included one woman saying that she was asked to work 72 hours without sleep while trying to organise "auditor training" for someone overseas.She was aged 15 at the time.

While the church argues its religious work is done by volunteers, the draft report found "it is likely the Church of Scientology has incorrectly classified as volunteers or voluntary workers people who are entitled to be classified as employees".

The report also found staff of Scientology's elite Sea Org worked up to seven days a week for as little as $10 a week.

While the church had argued that this group of people were not covered by the Fair Work Act as they were part of a Holy Order, the draft report found: "This is not a persuasive view and is not consistent with the law."

In a statement, the Church of Scientology labelled the release of the draft report to Lateline as "outrageous".

"It is quite unfair, outrageous and highly unethical for any analysis of such draft findings to take place when they are not the final decision of the regulatory authority."

ACA: http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/investigat...r-work-scandal

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/volu...-1226136476712

[Petey C]

There were no actual links to docs, they just set forth the Co$ response in full:

"It is inappropriate for the Church to make comment on the claims of former volunteers and religious ministers of the Church of Scientology, given that they have filed formal complaints with the Fair Work Ombudsman and that investigation is now in progress. This should be allowed to run its course.

The Fair Work Ombudsman has not handed down any findings and has requested all parties keep confidential the interim findings.

All religious work for the Church of Scientology is done by volunteers and their period of religious service helping others and engaging in community work such drug education; literacy and numeracy programs; health; human rights promotion and disaster relief is also a manifestation of their religious beliefs.

This is no different to many other charities and religions in Australia, which rely upon the generosity of their volunteer workers and ours do so freely, wishing to help their Church and community.

The Church of Scientology was declared a bona fide religion by the High Court of Australia in 1983."

[Petey C]

The point I was trying to make regarding my post is this is a double edged sword, and that govt. stepping up not only cuts the balls off of the Cof$, but further empowers the govt. in the area of regulating churches that are incorporated. As a nation moves into tyranny, govt. cracks down on churches that want to remain independent while tolerating only certain govt. approved churches. The communist party in the Soviet Union had a deal going with the Eastern Orthodox Church while persecuting small independent churches. If you went to confession you were talking with the Cheka, later known as the NKVD and the KGB, aka the committee for state security ... the motto being "the sword and shield of the communist party."
When government becomes God it doesn't want any rivals.

Here in the US, no church has gone further out of its way to make government its God. They rest their legitimacy on being recognized as a religion by the IRS. Since when does a church need to be recognized by a bill collector to be legitimate? Therefore it is only fitting that they are forced to pay back wages/minimum wages, they are the ones that stuck their foot in the bear trap and have nobody to blame but themselves. And in doing so, they have served their true spiritual master who is using them to sharpen his sword to go after Christian churches that have saddled themselves with the same legal vulnerability.

Pete

CoS allies itself with other religions and churches precisely because it makes it hard to get to CoS, whose practices are considerably worse wrt its staff and public than most other churches/religions (except for the equally wacky). CoS's decision to church up was probably driven by tax exemption but also protection under govt laws to keep church and state separate, and one consequence of this is protection from other churches/religions when they herd together to ward off unwelcome intrusion.

As Cherished implies, though, all organisations and persons within a nation have a duty to observe the laws of the land. IMO that's a good thing, not a bad thing. Particularly when they get such huge economic benefits from tax concessions. It doesn't at all mean that the State is interfering in religion; the State in this case is only protecting the human rights of its citizens and insisting they are adhered to.

[supafreak]

I think the distant, high-pitched wailing I can hear is the sound of Cyrus Brooks crying.

[jenni with an eye]

I think the distant, high-pitched wailing I can hear is the sound of Cyrus Brooks crying.

[GoNuclear]

CoS allies itself with other religions and churches precisely because it makes it hard to get to CoS, whose practices are considerably worse wrt its staff and public than most other churches/religions (except for the equally wacky). CoS's decision to church up was probably driven by tax exemption but also protection under govt laws to keep church and state separate, and one consequence of this is protection from other churches/religions when they herd together to ward off unwelcome intrusion.

As Cherished implies, though, all organisations and persons within a nation have a duty to observe the laws of the land. IMO that's a good thing, not a bad thing. Particularly when they get such huge economic benefits from tax concessions. It doesn't at all mean that the State is interfering in religion; the State in this case is only protecting the human rights of its citizens and insisting they are adhered to.

The "law of the land" as you use that expression is bogus. "The law of the land" is common law. By going the corporate route, the Cof$ has put itself under an entirely different system known as "equity" or "equity law". It is an entirely different system of things. Most of what is known as "statutory law" falls under that. Once you volunteer yourself over into that system, you are then subject to such things as the income tax, gun restrictions, laws prohibiting such things as marijuana, etc. The problem is that not only did Scientology volunteer itself over into that system, so did virtually all Christian churches as well have done so.

The govt. has an agenda. The Australian govt. is part of the same system, with slight variations, as the rest of the English speaking world. That includes the US, Canada, Great Britian, Australia, New Zealand, and some others. We are all pretty much on the same page agenda wise, all bankrupt and in receivership to the same banking families that call the shots. The US, in exchange for having the world reserve currency, has the burden of being the main military might for this juggernaut. Other countries are further down the road internally towards total govt./command and control tyranny, on such issues as socialized medicine, the total surveilance society (look at what they did in London), going into a bankrupt austerity program, gun grabbing, etc. There are those exposing the beast system in all these countries. I would say at the tip of the spear is Alex Jones and his organization. Exposing these b'tards is not enough tho.

An independent church that operates on right and speaks out against these things is NOT something that they want. A people that are Christian, believe in God, and have a strong faith also runs counter to their agenda. So make no mistake ... any ground gained by the globalists in giving the Cof$ the beatdown it so richly deserves can and WILL be used against other churches, as long as they have their foot in the same bear trap that the Cof$ put itself into, i.e., church incorporation. And for Freethinker ... feel free to chime in here, I'm sure you know exactly what I am talking about.

Pete