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Thread: Ireland - TCD to host Mike Rinder in debate.

  1. #21
    Crusader AnonKat's Avatar
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    Lightbulb The Phil's Scientology Debate (2) - 1st Opp - Matthew McKenna



    On 27th October 2011, the University Philosophical Society of Trinity College Dublin held a debate on the motion that 'This House Believes That Scientology Is As Legitimate As Any Other Religion'.
    Speaking in first opposition was Matthew McKenna, a prominent Irish anti-scientology activist.
    www.tcdphil.com
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    Crusader Sindy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Phil's Scientology Debate (2) - 1st Opp - Matthew McKenna

    Wish the sound was better. Anybody have anything where the acoustics were handled?

    I'm glad you posted this but I really can't take the time to strain to understand it so I did not finish the vid. My loss I guess but I won't do it.
    "Scientology: The only game in the universe where the rapist is your ethics officer." - HelluvaHoax

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    Cabal Of One Panda Termint's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Phil's Scientology Debate (2) - 1st Opp - Matthew McKenna

    Maybe Pete will do sub-titles for us!
    Dave Gibbons - Sydney, Australia.
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    Default Re: The Phil's Scientology Debate (2) - 1st Opp - Matthew McKenna

    Quote Originally Posted by Panda Termint View Post
    Maybe Pete will do sub-titles for us!
    That would be helpful. I don't mean to be a grouch about it...I guess that's one of my pet peeves. I've grown to expect good sound quality but ya can't always get what ya want.
    "Scientology: The only game in the universe where the rapist is your ethics officer." - HelluvaHoax

    "Yes Scientology at this point is nothing but its own funeral. You might as well leave early and beat the traffic. " - Thrak

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    Default Re: The Phil's Scientology Debate (2) - 1st Opp - Matthew McKenna

    I agree Synthia, between the accents and the hiss I find it trying to listen to, shame.
    A summary would be cool though!
    'Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.'
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  7. #26
    Crusader Sindy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Phil's Scientology Debate (2) - 1st Opp - Matthew McKenna

    Listening with headphones makes it better. Maybe I can get through it that way. I do want to hear it so, I'll give that a shot.
    "Scientology: The only game in the universe where the rapist is your ethics officer." - HelluvaHoax

    "Yes Scientology at this point is nothing but its own funeral. You might as well leave early and beat the traffic. " - Thrak

  8. #27
    Patron with Honors xenusdad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ireland - TCD to host Mike Rinder in debate.

    On 27th October 2011, the University Philosophical Society of Trinity College Dublin held a debate on the motion that 'This House Believes That Scientology Is As Legitimate As Any Other Religion'.

    Speaking in first opposition was Matthew McKenna, a prominent Irish anti-scientology activist.



    Speaking in second proposition was Mike Rinder, former chief spokesperson of the Church of Scientology. Mike Rinder left the Church in 2007 and is now an independent scientologist.



    Speaking in third opposition was John Duignan, who was part of the Church of Scientology for 22 years before leaving the religion. Mr. Duignan is now a prominent speaker against scientology and an undergraduate in UCC.


  9. #28
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    Default Re: Ireland - TCD to host Mike Rinder in debate.

    The audio in the top video seems to be improved slightly, and the audio in the other videos is OK.

    Marty&Mike and other Independent Scientologists are doing a self-assigned PR action for the religion-angled, religion-cloaked, cult of Hubbard.

    Marty's referring to old Scientology hired "religious scholar" Frank Flinn (in the "technological Buddhism" thread), makes me wonder if Mike Rinder reviewed what Flinn and other paid Scientology "religious experts" have written in the past.

    For example, from a Declaration of Frank Flinn, 1985: http://www.scientologymyths.info/sci...rank-flinn.htm

    Rinder seems to have had less success, in England, applying Hubbard's PR, Propaganda, and public opinion manipulation Tech, than did Rathbun in Germany a while back.

    "The objective is to be identified as attackers of popularly considered evils [Miscavige and Miscavige-Scientology]. This declassifies us from former labels [Scientology cult nut becomes Scientology anti-cult hero]. It reclassifies our attackers as evil people."

    Confidential 'Black Propaganda' 12 January 1972

    Below is a reminder of the Independent Scientology "reality" circa 2011:

    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/201...-human-rights/

    Germany, Europe and Human Rights
    Posted on September 3, 2011 by martyrathbun

    ...there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are “tied up” under siege. Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating to promote such practices as no-training-needed to get onto OT levels, “OT I and OT II are of little importance”: especially coming from “Class VIIIs”,”Class VIs” and folks claiming to be “trained by Ron.” They may as well be saying “Scientology is a fraud, because after all I studied it all, and violently disagree with the Bridge created by Ron.” Think about it. Beware of anyone who has “studied it all” and discourages you from doing the same.

    ...Two years ago the German government invited me to come there and to testify about Scientology. I told them they might not like what I have to say since my view is that the work of L Ron Hubbard and the philosophy of Scientology should survive and thrive. Interest waned; and we carried on with our work here.

    A couple months ago I was approached by the German government again. This time they informed me they had studied very thoroughly everything I had written and done over the past two years, and that they understood what we have done has accomplished more in curbing “church” of Scientology abuses than any other factor. They expressed great interest in my informing not only their government, but representatives from a number of European countries, about our work, distinguishing the philosophy from the acts of the corrupt organization...

    ...Cleaning up the image and damage that Miscavige has created for Scientology is not very difficult absent his gargantuan efforts to disrupt such work...
    Visit the Ex Scientologist Message Board web site for selected content from ESMB and more: http://exscn.net/

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  11. #29
    Patron Meritorious Vittorio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ireland - TCD to host Mike Rinder in debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by xenusdad View Post
    On 27th October 2011, the University Philosophical Society of Trinity College Dublin held a debate on the motion that 'This House Believes That Scientology Is As Legitimate As Any Other Religion'.

    Speaking in first opposition was Matthew McKenna, a prominent Irish anti-scientology activist.



    Speaking in second proposition was Mike Rinder, former chief spokesperson of the Church of Scientology. Mike Rinder left the Church in 2007 and is now an independent scientologist.



    Speaking in third opposition was John Duignan, who was part of the Church of Scientology for 22 years before leaving the religion. Mr. Duignan is now a prominent speaker against scientology and an undergraduate in UCC.

    in john's video at 7:20minutes roughly, Hubbards quote is from Science of Survival, I think about page 159 in my edition (because I never forgot it) where he states that a South or Central American dictator decided to take all of the criminals of the city out onto a boat in to a river where he blew up/sunk it and thus leperosy was cured.

    I alsways had a hard time with that statement and questioned it both in and out of the Church. It's not a piece of tech per se for people to follow, but it is a statement of Hubbards. Scientologists generalise when they talk about downstats and replace the idea of being able with being rich which are NOT the same thing. Some people have become rich on the back of others hard work and suffering. They are not able. I prefer the Jewish idea of leaving a corner of a field un-harvested so the poor can come in the night and take food where they cannot be seen and don't have to feel shame. Taking people and blowing them up as a solution to a problem is a pretty outrageous way of solving a problem and is one of those many Hubbard quotes that installs coldness rather than compassion in people.

    I disagree with John in that this is a key point for Scientology leaders to take note of; It's very unlikely that they will even look at a person on the streets, let alone spend time rounding them up and blowing them up. It's people with money that are of interest.

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  13. #30
    Patron Meritorious Vittorio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ireland - TCD to host Mike Rinder in debate.

    I want to add something here, having watched the three videos.

    Scientology IMO does not work without some other form of education or spirituality. I only have, as a personal example, my background in spirituality and Judaism to go on here, someone may have better examples, but it's my knowledge from these which for me show all that is missing in Scientology as a religion. My Synagogue for example has X amount of members who pay an annual membership fee. Some of the members make additional donations and sometimes pay for the refurbishment of rooms and donate to charitable activities. The Synagogue also hires out rooms to other groups and organisations and does a number of courses and events which people have to pay for, aside from the free stuff such as weekly services and activities. The money that goes in, is used to help members when they loose their job or cannot pay their rent. There is a service where people can have home visits if they are too sick or elderly to leave. There are a number of housing associations, old people's homes (many supported by charitable donations) and disabled associations that help people when they are struggling. There are wider charitable activities such as refugee drop-in centres, child line (set up by Esther Rantzen) and interfaith activities. So the group evidently benefits the community and helps subsidise it's members when they are in need.

    There is a lot written about how to treat the poor, the elderley and the stranger. There is a day of rest where family time and study is prominent. Scientology lacks this system of helping people on the 1st Dynamic. It is also a Jewish principle that if a person is not well and looking after themselves then they then cannot enagage well with their friends, family, community and the wider world.

    There is a lack of realistic help in Scientology. Everything is done to make money to help the people make money to pay more money into the organisation. A housing association for low waged members who may also be on staff. Would that be too much to ask? An outreach service taking food to the homeless and giving employment and housing advice and a friendly chat to the homeless and needy. Is that too much too ask?

    There's that whole concept of finding out what is needed and wanted. The world is in recession and people are struggling. Opening luxurious new buildings and charging a small fortune for services is a major out-point IMO. People need and want help getting on their feet and keeping their head above the water. When someone falls down in Scientology or is not earning huge amounts of money, nobody wants to know. It's no real friendship. It is a business relationship. How can someone give up so much of their life for a 3rd Dynamic that does not offer friendship? I never once remember going to a dinner in or out of the Church where everyone was sat down and sharing food and being friendly. Now it is a weekly thing.
    Last edited by Vittorio; 29th October 2011 at 02:25 PM.

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