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Thread: A bold statement.

  1. #261
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    Default Re: A bold statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimsey Borogrove View Post
    All that aside - I am still trying to wrap my poor brain around Arnie's statement - Mimsey
    Lermanetics can help you with that.....

    Say there once was a penny a word science fiction writer, a wife beater, dead-beat-dad, and a master stage hypnotist...


    Arthur J. Cox’s Story of LRH’s Stage Type Hypnotism, Science-Fiction Advertiser July 1952, Pages 7 & 8 are reproduced below:



    Note the last line describing a kid who has been convinced that he is holding onto a 'red hot railing' and can not let go...

    Is this not somewhat like being IN scientology?

    Also note Hubbard's style of stage hypnosis entertainment... he is laughing AT his subject... using them to further his own reputation...

    Forrest Ackerman 1980 Interview, typewritten notes about Hubbard's performances at a science fiction club in LA..




    There is more on this old page on Lermanet.com HERE (scroll down)

    So, ok, we have an unscrupulous man who was an adept stage hypnotist...

    ---------

    Now, the techniques used in Dianetics, the ones that make Dianetics different from "Original Thesis".. are described in a book called Conditioned Reflex Therapy by Andrew Salter, whose work is based in part upon a brilliant Russian named Bechterev, who was around with Pavlov, and might have made a name for himself, had he lived as long as Pavlov, but he was executed by Stalin...

    Now using those techniques, the reader of Dianetics, MSMH, is convinced that he has something he was not even aware of having... he is convinced that he has a reactive mind.... he is also convinced that this thing that he doesn't really have (A Reactive Mind), is the source of all his failures... his ruins... and if he were to just be rid of this thing, he might gain super duper mental powers, like having a perfect memory!

    Wow, sounds pretty damn cool eh?

    We were also told, repeatedly, using various analogies and metaphors, and appeal to authority (of the magnificent being who is sharing his sole art discovery with us, this Nuclear Scientist. lie, this Navy War Hero. lie, that this discovery can be compared to the discovery of FIRE! lie)

    The crafty son of a bitch also called this Reactive mind by the term BANK.

    You are convinced you must be rid of this BANK.

    Hubbard, and his organization, is the ONLY PLACE WHERE YOU CAN GET RID OF YOUR dreadful BANK!

    What a deal!

    The salesman merely reminds you of these supposed FACTS...

    And you find the salesman most compelling... you find yourself handing over all the cash you have in your BANK account and often then some...

    ------------

    If you want to get LOTS of money from someone, you have to have or provide something that they cannot get anywhere else.. or do you? All they have to do is believe that you have something they cannot get anywhere else...

    Programming your mind to accept the BELIEF that you have a REACTIVE MIND, and then calling it the BANK!

    Insidious, as an adjective, just does not do justice to the misery for profit that is $cientology.

    Mimsey, Did this help?

    Arnie Lerma
    "WE COME BACK for our friends and family to get them out of Ron's trance before their names end up here http://www.whyaretheydead.info"

    Google Abreactive Therapy, this is what Dianetics basically is, (Old, discarded PSYCHIATRIC Technology) with one huge difference... In abreactive therapy, it was ok for the person to IMAGINE goofy things that might cause their neurosis... but you NEVER told the poor fellow, as Hubbard does, that those imaginings were REAL! abreactive therapy was discarded by the psychiatric community because it took too long to train people and better and faster results were already available...

    The Reactive Mind or BANK, is merely a shore story...

    To get your money.

    You would get a better deal from a common street thug, who pointed a gun at your head and said
    "your money, or your life" because:
    Hubbard takes your money AND your life.
    Last edited by Lermanet_com; 15th November 2011 at 07:41 AM.

  2. #262
    Crusader SweetnessandLight's Avatar
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    Smile Re: A bold statement.

    "All that aside - I am still trying to wrap my poor brain around Arnie's statement -
    YES!
    The explanations and reasons why Hubbard says things are done any particular way in scientology are mostly all shore stories themselves, suitable guises, for what it is really about. Consider the "reactive mind" as a shore story...

    Mimsey"

    Don't worry, Mimsey! you'll get there...just keep reading ESMB, and keep thinkin'.
    You're halfway there, already!
    Yes, you can fly, but first you have to break out of that cocoon. You are capable of self rescue at all times. "Every blade of grass has its own special angel watching over it and whispering, 'grow...grow'." -The Talmud "I am still determined to be cheerful and happy, in whatever situation I may be, for I have learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our disposition, and not upon our circumstances." -Martha Washington

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  4. #263
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    Default Re: A bold statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetnessandLight View Post
    "All that aside - I am still trying to wrap my poor brain around Arnie's statement -
    YES!
    The explanations and reasons why Hubbard says things are done any particular way in scientology are mostly all shore stories themselves, suitable guises, for what it is really about. Consider the "reactive mind" as a shore story...

    Mimsey"

    Don't worry, Mimsey! you'll get there...just keep reading ESMB, and keep thinkin'.
    You're halfway there, already!
    Just in case someone asks about body thetans
    Perhaps the following image illustrates where Hubbard got the idea for that particular piece of fiction...



    Caption reads: "These two hypnotized girls have been told by Ralph Slater that there are mice on the floor"

    Hubbard, goes on to tell his fully enthralled dupes that their bodys were infested with body thetans that only $cientology could get rid of...

    Over a decade ago OT8 Michael Pattinson was 'out' of scientology but told me he was still 'auditing BTs" and sufferring from 'endless BTs" - I spoke with Mr Pattinson on the telephone and told him to try something... I said simply, (and repeatedly) Michael, just PUT THE CANS DOWN.... he later told me about that suggestion "It worked!"..as if surprised... I smiled inside.

    I find discussions on ESMB about the supposed nuances of scientology technical issues difficult to respond to without sounding gruff or harsh as I am reminded of the fine print in the OTIII level that stated that all cases of "no BTs", have been later found to be loaded, they just needed to REDO ALL THEIR LOWER LEVELS AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE!!

    JUST LIKE, the fairy tale about "The emperor has no clothes!"

    I find the subject of scientology "tech" ludicrous to consider, or discuss, unless that discussion is leading readers to revelations as in this thread...and to an awakened mind, freed of this trance, of another's making... freed from the treadmill to nowhere but the next expensive level, or billion year contract...

    Hypnosis Works (for a short while, it wears off) that is why you must always DO YOUR NEXT STEP, COME TO THE EVENT, Get your training... and endure tons of KEY WORD LOADED JUNK MAIL. These things all exist because it is all just a short lived solution called hypnosis...

    I detest freezone efforts, here we have the still entranced practicing what amount to hypnotic techniques while thinking it is something called scientology...

    The REASON there are laws on the books about the practice of hypnosis, is that hypnosis, like opiates, merely hides symptoms, while the patient's cancer continues to eat them away inside. I believe the fact of those relgulations is why Hubbard called it something else... why Hubbard gave us that shore story.

    That the entranced call what they are doing by any another name, while denying the facts and observations described herein does not change what they are doing, whether the end result is mice or engrams or BTs.....

    From the bottom line of the Lermanet.com home page:

    The following words come from a publication called Pseudodoxia Epidemica, written by Sir Thomas Browne in 1646. In between paragraphs ridiculing urine therapy etc.. he had this to say about "Saltimbancoes, Quacksalvers, and Charlatans":

    "For their Impostures are full of cruelty, and worse than any other; deluding not only unto pecuniary defraudations, but the irreparable deceit of death."

    Almost 400 years later, one thing is finally changing, - the public's understanding and grasp of frauds and deceits, of all kinds,

    Arnie Lerma

  5. #264
    Crusader Mimsey Borogrove's Avatar
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    Default Re: A bold statement.

    Hi - I don't have time to read the responses right now - I'll do it after work, however let me say this:

    The problem I have with statements that there is no such thing as the reactive mind, that it is all hypnotism is that those statements do not jive with my personal experience. They do not explain the things that have occurred to me in and out of auditing.

    Let me suggest that there is a reactive mind or a sub concious mind or whatever the hell it is and that Hubbard was not able to figure it out either. He figured out part of it.

    Let me suggest this as a statement standing by itself: For hypnotism to work at all it must rely on some hidden, hypnotic, possibly whole track, incident or mechanism.

    Mimsey

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  7. #265
    Unbeliever uniquemand's Avatar
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    Default Re: A bold statement.

    Addressing real incidents or or distressing sorts of people, etc., can be beneficial, but I've always maintained that mocking up BTs and Implants was extremely stupid (for the mark). This is why I do NOT take a "Bridge" approach with my own clients. I'm not leading them into a belief system that makes me money and has them run around a wheel forever while they pay me. Instead, I'm more interested in hearing what their personal goals are, and then hearing about what disturbances they've had that are preventing these, or what "somatics" come up when they contemplate their goals, and addressing those.

    Mocking up implants or evil bts/clusters might be an interesting exercise, and a way to train a person how to discharge them, but beyond that, it's mental masturbation which can be exploited, particularly in an environment designed to foment beliefs that whatever you have in mind must have at one time been real, or that sort of thing.

    I could see having a session whenever a disturbance occurred, to track down where it came from, and either discharge something, or learn about an ability that needs to be exercised so that such disturbances either don't happen in the future, or help a person develop resilience such that they can handle such things without disturbance. I cannot, though, see any need for the extensive "auditing" and "solo auditing" that the Church recommends, except as a way to make money for Hubbard and his wannabes.

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  9. #266
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    Default Re: A bold statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by WildKat View Post
    Maybe it's time for you to graduate and move on. You're bitter and jaded.

    Seriously, this board has reached a level of stagnation. Everything that needed to be said has already been said, and it's all buried under piles of threads like this one. What we need is a newbie with a good story to tell. New blood to stir things up.

    I only come here looking for news or entertainment and there hasn't been much of that lately. I go to Marty's site for laughs.

    OK, I'm bitter and jaded. Do'h!
    yes.

    the major points of both criticism and critique were discussed, often eloquently before i got here

    i think this board could be greatly enhanced by establishing some sort of reading room containing this best writing on the subject. this would be of immense value to people who are new to the board.

    i'd be happy to help with such a project myself if i had time space and a computer.

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  11. #267
    Fool on the Hill Voltaire's Child's Avatar
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    Default Re: A bold statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by WildKat View Post
    Maybe it's time for you to graduate and move on. You're bitter and jaded.

    Seriously, this board has reached a level of stagnation. Everything that needed to be said has already been said, and it's all buried under piles of threads like this one. What we need is a newbie with a good story to tell. New blood to stir things up.

    I only come here looking for news or entertainment and there hasn't been much of that lately. I go to Marty's site for laughs.

    OK, I'm bitter and jaded. Do'h!
    Oh, I dunno. I think Auditor's Toad is just a bit of a smarty pants. Which, I hasten to add, is one of the things I like about him.

    I am truly into myself, yes. And I'm just as interested in other people. When I'm not thinking of one, I'm thinking of the other.

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  13. #268
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    Default Re: A bold statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimsey Borogrove View Post
    Hi - I don't have time to read the responses right now - I'll do it after work, however let me say this:

    The problem I have with statements that there is no such thing as the reactive mind, that it is all hypnotism is that those statements do not jive with my personal experience. They do not explain the things that have occurred to me in and out of auditing.

    Let me suggest that there is a reactive mind or a sub conscious mind or whatever the hell it is and that Hubbard was not able to figure it out either. He figured out part of it.

    Let me suggest this as a statement standing by itself: For hypnotism to work at all it must rely on some hidden, hypnotic, possibly whole track, incident or mechanism.

    Mimsey
    Amazing, while typing the previous post, it did occur to me that perhaps i should explain some about the subconscious. Yes there IS a subconscious, and it is quite literal, - I touched upon it in earlier posts in this thread, I might suggest reading Dr Joost Meerloo's book Rape of the Mind, (First webbed by lermanet.com) (note) which discusses in layman terms (and he was castigated for doing so at the time) the characteristics of the subconscious mind. But it is nothing one wants to get rid of, it is, I believe, something one wants to get familiar and comfortable with. My favorite descriptions are by Carl Jung,

    I dislike Freud.. famous for tying all neurosis to repressed sex, who influenced so many including Hubbard through Dr (note3) and Commander "snake" Thompson (so hubbard claims).. I decided Freud was worthy of being ignored after I found out he was into cocaine. Promoting it as a cure all for man's ills... Well, large releases of dopamine into our brains does indeed make life seem quite grand, and anyone who has messed with cocaine knows it makes you extremely interested in having sex right now, but you (if a guy) can not perform well,, (your snake doesn't stand up) until it starts wearing off. So Freud was perhaps just a drug addled psychoanalyst, who liked to get laid... I imagine this would have appealed to Hubbard.

    Then there was Carl Jung, who was a dreamer and THAT appeals to me. Some good quotes by him are on my Essential reading thread

    Even Volney Mathison, the inventor of the E-meter, developer of "creative Image Therapy" cohort of Hubbard in the beginning, in his last booklets, was exploring ways to access the subconscous..after he called out hubbard as an unscrupulous hypnotist. see Creative Image Therapy Chapter 6

    Image from Volney's Creative Image Therapy (seem familiar?)



    Another thing that really helps is to try an SSRI, like prozac...(Note2.)or once you realize what an amazing effect modulation of brain chemistry has... (a floating needle in a jar, for pennies a day) many other related -isms no longer seem quite so magic.

    and..

    My definition of Magic is "Not knowing how the trick is done"

    Arnie lerma

    Note: Years later, after webbing this, (Rape of the Mind), while reading the full document called "The Kubark Interrogation Manual" - the one that contains the Aliice in Wonderland technique in my sig line below,, in the back of that manual I found a footnote, where the writer is telling the reader that if they want to know more about themselves they should read Dr Joost Meerloo's Rape of the Mind!!!
    Kubark Manual in full Part 1, Part2, Part3

    Note2: LINK to Article Psychiatric Times, 1991 "Prozac Frees Ex-Scientology Leader from Depression" about Hana Eltringham



    Introduction by Webmaster: When I was in Hubbard's the 'Sea Organization', in 1971, Hana Eltringham was known to me as Deputy Commodore... appearing on many Flag Order's ( Official Policy Directives of the Sea Organization) as D/Commodore Hana Eltringham. Hubbard was "Commodore", Hana was D/Commodore. She was the Highest ranking Sea Org member...in the history of Scientology..

    Note3 - it is worth noting that Commander "snake" Thompson was also a hypnotist.
    Last edited by Lermanet_com; 15th November 2011 at 06:11 PM.

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  15. #269
    Gold Meritorious Patron GreyWolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: A bold statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire's Child View Post
    Oh, I dunno. I think Auditor's Toad is just a bit of a smarty pants. Which, I hasten to add, is one of the things I like about him.

    Here is a big thumbs up for ya! .

    And the truth is, Ron was a thief. He had not one original thought in creating his tech. Even on himself he used the precepts of hypnosis, self hypnosis and Satanism. Read the Admissions http://outofscn.co.cc/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39

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  17. #270
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    Default Re: A bold statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimsey Borogrove View Post

    Let me suggest that there is a reactive mind or a sub concious mind or whatever the hell it is and that Hubbard was not able to figure it out either. He figured out part of it.


    Perhaps.

    But, perhaps an automobile has a "reactive car" inside of it that needs to be audited out when it breaks down.

    Or...

    Maybe there is just a car.
    ________________________

    Scientology literally saved my life! Without Ron's books I would have frozen to death!!! (see avatar)

    Scientology in one word? HelluvaHoax!

    I never felt as free as when I freed myself from "Total Freedom".

    For offended Scientologists reading this blasphemy about L. Ron Hubbard---my apologies for talking about real life without lying to you, like Scientology, with goo-goo theta-talk. I know you don't have a floating needle right now. You're not supposed to.

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