Rathbun's views on the Debbie Cook trial.

[TG1]

I saw the title of this thread and thought "Who cares?" (Sorry FTS, no offense).

Re: Rathbun's views on the Debbie Cook trial.

---------------

Even with DM out, who cares?

I was raised in the Sea Org prior to DM. As a child, I dealt with beans and rice ONLY, 3 meals a day for YEARS, no money, no schooling, dirty clothes, wearing the same clothes every day, collecting freeloader debts for the org (yes, when I was 5 to 7 years old!) and giving that money to the church and still being starved constantly! Tons of children got molested too while I was a child. And punishment was for the KIDS for that!

What kind of "religion" would do that?

Getting DM out will change nothing. The whole thing has to go. It is inhuman!

That says it all. Me too, Bea.

TG1

[dianaclass8]

Natalie, it is true that he has done a lot to expose the abuses, however, he has not told all; mainly the things that should lead to arrests of David Miscavige and those others who perpretrated the crimes and to the dismantling of the Sea Org.

Until he does that, whatever else he does, is all fine but not enough.
He might be helping others solely because he has an agenda.

I agree with Dean. I've only known Marty out of the Sea Org. He and Mike Rinder helped my family during a time full of turmoil and uncertainty, asking nothing in return. For that I remain grateful.

I've seen other friends wake up to what is going on in the cult after reading Marty's blog. It truly is a great gradient for them.

I'm not saying Marty is perfect, none of us are. What I am saying is that he has done a hell of a lot to expose the abuses occuring in the cult. Yes he caused some of those abuses, but slamming the guy when he is trying to help people today, is counter productive.

Many more like Debbie Cook will be coming forward. In 2012 we will no doubt see an unprecidented amount of people leaving the cult and speaking out. Anything and anyone that contributes to this is welcomed by me.

I no longer practice Scientology and haven't for sometime. I have friends who are still in the cult, who are out and Indies, out and critics, never been in etc. What I share with each of them is a desire to see a stop to the abuses that have and are occuring. Coerced abortions, financial destrutction, physical and mental abuse.

I don't always agree with all of Marty's viewpoints, or all of the viewpoints here, but the beautiful thing is I don't have to. What we share is a desire to end the human rights abuses being perpetuated by the group known as the Church of Scientology.

Most importantly, it really pisses off the cult when we get along and work together.

[BunnySkull]

What bothers me most is these Scio still have the mindset that their "public" needs to fund these internal bullshit wars. Mike and Marty aren't putting out any of their own cash to do this - they are regging for it.

Someone paid for Mike's flight and stay in TX - and some ex-Scio already provides him his income. Donos covered their stay in TX. Regging put together the legal fees.

It's just sad that once these people leave the cult, they get pulled into another where regging and donations are par for the course. I'm sure it doesn't even cross their minds because it's not the crush regging they were so accustomed too - just your typical guilting to give spiel. Probably like taking candy from a baby for Marty these peeps are so pre-conditioned.

I would manage to have more respect for Marty if Scio. wasn't still the goose that laid the golden egg for him and Mike. Both still derive their income from Scio or Scio connections. When some opportunity arises to piss off DM (& the war with DM is all they care about, Marty and others obviously don't give a fuck about their former comrades they left to rot in the hole years ago.) they expect their fanboys to pay for it.

I guess I would like M&M to be truly ethical people, earn livings not still tied to milking the brainwashed, and when opportunities arose to confront CoS evils they took a financial hit to do it because they helped create the monster. I wouldn't even be opposed if people did donate to them on their own volition if this was the scene, but Marty pretty much passes the hat and tells them to dig deep anytime he's got a need. (the constant presence of the donate button at the top of his blog make sure they know it's always welcome in-between fundraising drives.)

It all boils down to Scientology conditioning people to fund anything when told it's for the good of Scientology - doesn't matter where they fall on the spectrum of indie or CoS just whatever they believe helps old Elrons con. Funny that.

[Lone Star]

No, it's typical. newbies are automatic suspects.

Where were you on the night LRH died?

Do you have any witnesses?

I was in Europe getting some squirreled auditing. Captain Bill is my witness. Ooooops....he can't vouch for me now.

[Gadfly]

I think what she enjoyed was having a sense of purpose -feeling that she was completely dedicated to something bigger than herself. It's what I missed the most. It's what I still miss.

Many people get all wrapped in something "bigger than themselves", just as did/do Nazis, fanatical Muslims and other assorted lunatics who felt incomplete without being attached to some "larger cause".

Read Hoffer's The True Believer. He explains in detail how this "need for a greater cause" is one of the key factors in gaining followers and adherents to some nutty cause.

And, NEVER be afraid to harm another in realizing that "just cause". (dumb Hubbard)

Jesus Christ on a Cross! You are already, just as you ARE, a PART of this amazing Universe! I suggest learning to appreciate and acknowledge THAT, because then you will lose any NEED to find and attach oneself to these meager "causes bigger than myself".

The need to find and attach self to these delusional "larger causes" is a sign of insecurity. One feels that something is "missing". Thus, you "miss it".

There is only ONE "larger cause". You are right now a part of it. Look out the window. Gaze at a beautiful sunset. Go for a walk in the woods. Hold a baby. Look into its eyes. Get connected to the amazing Universe that is always right there surrounding you.

The only problem with people is that their MINDS create barriers to being in a nice healthy communion with all-that-is. When a person feels any need to "find a larger purpose", he or she actually has cut him or herself OFF already from all-that-is.

You have a direct connection to the source of all-that-is. In a very real way you ARE a part of THAT which is the source of all-that-is.

I feel compassion for Debbie, but just as I do for any of the many people who have severed their own connection to the Ground of All Being by accepting crazy ideas about all sorts of things (by the activities of "mind"). She is no different really than just about any other living human being who has "thought themselves into a hole". (so to speak)

She created her own "trap" by accepting and agreeing with various ideas. She will free herself to the degree that she lets go of these various ideas. Sadly, many previous fanatics can't do that so easily, and they look for and find some NEW set of dumb ideas to replace the old ones with.

And, really, THAT is what Marty provides. A way to maintain many of the nutty ideas while separating from the Scientology Church organization. Of course, if Marty's group acts as a "step along the way" to TOTAL disconnection from the nutty ideas of Scientology, well to THAT degree it is useful.

[Man de la Mancha]

I agree with Dean. I've only known Marty out of the Sea Org...

I'm not saying Marty is perfect, none of us are...

Yes he caused some of those abuses, but slamming the guy when he is trying to help people today, is counter productive.

Most importantly, it really pisses off the cult when we get along and work together.

I totally agree with you on this Natalie. ESMBers are allowed and able to think for themselves, so there will inevitably be some difference opinions. Be careful, because in this way your free will can be used against you. I think it's safe to say that there is a Scn Inc presence on this board doing just that. If you really think there aren't zealots in here posting as Scn haters, you're crazy. They are a huge minority even amongst the extreme Scn antis, but I would urge everyone to think twice before being led into either "hate camp". By doing so you fall into the trap and possibly forfeit the cause.

The great majority of Scn haters on this board strike me as good, decent people, and most have a damn good reason for being pissed off. Nonetheless, "divide and conquer" would be Scn Inc's best strategy with regard to the opposition. It will dilute the effort to end the RPF, child neglect, disconection, etc. There are active missions with this in mind, but I'm sure noone in here needs to be told that!

In my opinion, there are others who are way more qualified as production execs and spiritual leaders than either Rathburn or Rinder, but, for better or worse, that's who a lot of people are listening to.

I will lend my voice of support to the first wannabe leader who isn't a coward, including Rathbun or Rinder. Anyone who continues to justify or remain silent about RPF, child neglect, and disconnection is a coward and unfit for leadership.

[Jquepublic]

Many people get all wrapped in something "bigger than themselves", just as did/do Nazis, fanatical Muslims and other assorted lunatics who felt incomplete without being attached to some "larger cause".

Read Hoffer's The True Believer. He explains in detail how this "need for a greater cause" is one of the key factors in gaining followers and adherents to some nutty cause.

And, NEVER be afraid to harm another in realizing that "just cause". (dumb Hubbard)

Jesus Christ on a Cross! You are already, just as you ARE, a PART of this amazing Universe! I suggest learning to appreciate and acknowledge THAT, because then you will lose any NEED to find and attach oneself to these meager "causes bigger than myself".

The need to find and attach self to these delusional "larger causes" is a sign of insecurity. One feels that something is "missing". Thus, you "miss it".

There is only ONE "larger cause". You are right now a part of it. Look out the window. Gaze at a beautiful sunset. Go for a walk in the woods. Hold a baby. Look into its eyes. Get connected to the amazing Universe that is always right there surrounding you.

The only problem with people is that their MINDS create barriers to being in a nice healthy communion with all-that-is. When a person feels any need to "find a larger purpose", he or she actually has cut him or herself OFF already from all-that-is.

You have a direct connection to the source of all-that-is. In a very real way you ARE a part of THAT which is the source of all-that-is.

I feel compassion for Debbie, but just as I do for any of the many people who have severed their own connection to the Ground of All Being by accepting crazy ideas about all sorts of things (by the activities of "mind"). She is no different really than just about any other living human being who has "thought themselves into a hole". (so to speak)

She created her own "trap" by accepting and agreeing with various ideas. She will free herself to the degree that she lets go of these various ideas. Sadly, many previous fanatics can't do that so easily, and they look for and find some NEW set of dumb ideas to replace the old ones with.

And, really, THAT is what Marty provides. A way to maintain many of the nutty ideas while separating from the Scientology Church organization. Of course, if Marty's group acts as a "step along the way" to TOTAL disconnection from the nutty ideas of Scientology, well to THAT degree it is useful.

Don't preach at me. I don't like it.

Nothing that I said deserved your rant.

I don't disagree with the principle of your commentary, but your opinion notwithstanding there is a genuine desire to contribute to a cause that some people have and that Scientology recognises and manipulates. I have it. It's this nagging urge to do something about the shit that I see in the world that I don't want. So while you're welcome to express any view you have on the nature of the universe, please refrain from speaking to me as if I don't have a brain of my own.

[Lulu Belle]

Don't preach at me. I don't like it.

Nothing that I said deserved your rant.

I don't disagree with the principle of your commentary, but your opinion notwithstanding there is a genuine desire to contribute to a cause that some people have and that Scientology recognises and manipulates. I have it. It's this nagging urge to do something about the shit that I see in the world that I don't want. So while you're welcome to express any view you have on the nature of the universe, please refrain from speaking to me as if I don't have a brain of my own.

Jque,

That's just the way Gad talks. Don't take it personally. He talks like that to everyone.


He's just real .... passionate.

[Man de la Mancha]

Of course, if Marty's group acts as a "step along the way" to TOTAL disconnection from the nutty ideas of Scientology, well to THAT degree it is useful.

Well said Gadfly. If you will agree to support me as the new leader, I will make you Commanding Officer of Golden Era Studios, which will be be a very lucrative position under my revised Sea Org pay scale.

[Lone Star]

[QUOTE=Gadfly;659294]Many people get all wrapped in something "bigger than themselves", just as did/do Nazis, fanatical Muslims and other assorted lunatics who felt incomplete without being attached to some "larger cause".

Read Hoffer's The True Believer. He explains in detail how this "need for a greater cause" is one of the key factors in gaining followers and adherents to some nutty cause.

And, NEVER be afraid to harm another in realizing that "just cause". (dumb Hubbard)

Gadfly what have you done? What are your crimes? Proceed to the nearest Org for a sec check....and bring a valid credit card with room on it.

Jesus Christ on a Cross! You are already, just as you ARE, a PART of this amazing Universe! I suggest learning to appreciate and acknowledge THAT, because then you will lose any NEED to find and attach oneself to these meager "causes bigger than myself".

The need to find and attach self to these delusional "larger causes" is a sign of insecurity. One feels that something is "missing". Thus, you "miss it". [QUOTE]

I totally agree...it took me a long time to finally get this. I also missed being a part of a larger cause. I hope all who are still trapped will be free in their own due time... It's not a test with a time limit so I don't look down on anyone who hasn't "cognited" yet. I'm embarrassed sometimes that it took going through 2 cults, yes 2, to finally get a grip on reality.