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Thread: YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN

  1. #11
    True Ex-Scientologist programmer_guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN

    Quote Originally Posted by Veda View Post
    If it were possible to travel back in time, and you, circa 2012, could have talked with you [insert date when you were first becoming involved with Scientology] what would you have said?

    Would the you - then - have listened to the you now?


    There are problems inherent with this question. Much is known now that was not known then. For example, I, circa 2012, could not have cited information revealed in the late 1970s (as a result of the 1977 FBI raids), or information from interviews of the the early 1980s (from books, such as 'Madman or Madman?' or 'Barefaced Messiah'), or information from 1984 (from Armstrong vs CofS), if I, circa 2012, had been talking to me of, let's say, 1970, as I was about to begin the Communications Course as a novice Scientologist.

    So, my 2012 message to my 1970 self would have been limited, if I had wished to be taken seriously, since I couldn't expect to have been taken seriously if I had said, "Oh hi! I'm a time traveler from 2012."

    Could I have done any good? Could I have successfully warned myself?

    Could you, now, talking to you - back then (and for some of you, the "then," may be a more recent time, making the question much simpler) - have done any good?

    Or would you - back then - have rejected the message from you, circa 2012, and you - back then - have proceeded with your intended course of action despite a visit and intervention from the time-traveling you of 2012?

    Just curious.
    This is a very interesting hypothetical question.
    As I have said before, no one could have got me out of Scientology but by myself.

    But, as you question, would I have listened to myself (in this scifi hypothetical)?
    Who would know? I don't know.

    This is a VeRy wEiRd question.
    The emphasis on finding and describing "knowledge structures" that are somewhere "inside" the individual encourages us to overlook the fact that human cognition is always situated in a complex sociocultural world and cannot be unaffected by it. - Edwin Hutchins
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Hutchins

  2. #12
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    Default Re: YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN

    I would have told my 1970 self: "Hey, get a life...there are better places to meet girls"

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  4. #13
    Angelic Poster TG1's Avatar
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    Default Re: YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN

    Veda,

    Excellent question.

    However, I don't know if my 23-year-old self would have been at all receptive to anything such an OLD person might have said to me back then.

    At the time, Scientology seemed a way to explore the woo-woo side of life, which interested me a lot. I was entranced and overwhelmed by all the new cultural influences (drugs, Carlos Castaneda books, meditation, Eastern spiritualism, etc.) and rapidly changing Western culture (Vietnam War, continuing civil rights struggles, American cultural and generational clashes).

    Looking back at my life since then, it’s obvious I needed to learn much I did learn while inside Scientology and since leaving it -- and most of that had to do with disagreeing. I don’t know how else I might have learned it -– there was so much to disagree with.

    I was much luckier than many – was never on staff or went into deep debt. The biggest thing I lost while in Scientology was a first husband who was surely the worst person I might have married – so that was a good thing.

    Perhaps I might simply suggest to my younger self: “Learn how to disagree!” because that’s what I needed to know.

    But I acknowledge I have absolutely no idea what I needed to learn that I haven’t learned. I cannot see that.

    TG1

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  6. #14
    Patron Meritorious Moosejewels's Avatar
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    Default Re: YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN

    I was so, sooo, wishing that there was more to existence
    that what I had seen so far in life.

    'nam, etc. etc.

    The con was on, and I bought in to it.

    Moi. Stupid simpleton. Naive raw meat.

    Buddhism is my sanity.

    Simple. Honest.

    'nuff said.

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  8. #15
    Silver Meritorious Patron Petey C's Avatar
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    Default Re: YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN

    Probably nothing would have stopped me from doing the few little courses I did. If I'd stopped there, I would have been fine. What I needed was to be stopped from joining the SO. I think if 1974 me had just gone on trying to pay for auditing and training, she would have just given it up as something too expensive and, ultimately, square and weird.

    Could 2012 me have persuaded 1974 me to hold back? Probably not. But 1983 me probably could have. If I'd met an ex-SO member who had gone through what I was going to go through, I probably would have torn that contract up.

    All this me and her and I is messing with my head!

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  10. #16
    Cabal Of One Panda Termint's Avatar
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    Default Re: YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN

    It doesn't really answer the question asked as such but I have considered this concept before and the bottom line for me is this; if I hadn't done the things I did along the way, I wouldn't have the life I have today.

    I've contemplated some of the possible/potential outcomes of having taken different turns or having trod an alternate path at the various watershed moments in my life and, all in all, I'll take the life I have today over any of the alternatives I can envision, thanks!
    Dave Gibbons - Sydney, Australia.
    I don't believe everything I read on the Internet.
    I do believe everything I write.

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  12. #17
    Crusader La La Lou Lou's Avatar
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    Default Re: YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN

    Yes, I could have laid a hand firmly on that younger shoulder and said ''No'' ''You are too naive too young and too talented to through your life down a pseudo-religious toilet. Do your studies, study well, get a practice together and have a good life, this is not for you, it's just bad science fiction.'' I would have listened if it had come with sincerity, it was all I was waiting for, I was having a very long q and a, but there was no information, it felt like a bad thing to do but no one said, ''don't do it!''
    Everywhere in the modern world there is neglect, the need to be recognized, which is not satisfied. Art is a way of recognizing oneself, which is why it will always be modern. (Louise Bourgeois)

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  14. #18
    Squirrel Extraordinaire Dulloldfart's Avatar
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    Default Re: YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN

    Quote Originally Posted by Veda View Post
    If it were possible to travel back in time, and you, circa 2012, could have talked with you [insert date when you were first becoming involved with Scientology] what would you have said?

    Would the you - then - have listened to the you now?


    There are problems inherent with this question. Much is known now that was not known then. For example, I, circa 2012, could not have cited information revealed in the late 1970s (as a result of the 1977 FBI raids), or information from interviews of the the early 1980s (from books, such as 'Madman or Madman?' or 'Barefaced Messiah'), or information from 1984 (from Armstrong vs CofS), if I, circa 2012, had been talking to me of, let's say, 1970, as I was about to begin the Communications Course as a novice Scientologist.
    I don't see that it is necessary to avoid the later-in-time experience at all.

    Per Dr. Michael Newton's Life-Between-Lives research (see this little ESMB thread), while in the timeless spirit world and before one splits one's essence in half and the Earthbound part starts to co-exist with a baby, one visits the "Future Lives Viewing Room" or whatever it is called. One gets to view detailed scenes from maybe three different future lives that one can choose from.

    Exactly how this works I have trouble getting my wits around, but that is neither here nor there. The point is that it seems not to be at all unreal to carry "future" experience back in time.

    It could be said that one has *already* had that conversation with a younger self, in that one entered this life already knowing the extent of one's involvement with the cult and *choosing it of one's own free will*.

    (Hey — *I* didn't set it up like that!)

    Paul
    PaulsRobot Iconic now available for use at www.PaulsRobot2.com. With Auto-Report. Video here. Introductory post here. Debug post here. Dipoles post here.

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  16. #19
    Shiny Free Crusader Free to shine's Avatar
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    Default Re: YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN

    Quote Originally Posted by Panda Termint View Post
    It doesn't really answer the question asked as such but I have considered this concept before and the bottom line for me is this; if I hadn't done the things I did along the way, I wouldn't have the life I have today.

    I've contemplated some of the possible/potential outcomes of having taken different turns or having trod an alternate path at the various watershed moments in my life and, all in all, I'll take the life I have today over any of the alternatives I can envision, thanks!
    Unfortunately I can't say the same thing. :(
    QUOTE OF THE YEAR: "I wasn't aware that a documentary (on scientology) was coming out but I'll be sure to not watch it." A Scientologist

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  18. #20
    Cabal Of One Panda Termint's Avatar
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    Default Re: YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN

    Quote Originally Posted by Free to shine View Post
    Unfortunately I can't say the same thing. :(
    Yes, I understand that. It's probably true for many others too.
    Dave Gibbons - Sydney, Australia.
    I don't believe everything I read on the Internet.
    I do believe everything I write.

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