Starting on ESMB Professor Jim Beverley

[James Beverley]

Not Scared off, not even close...

1. I have told friends and family this week that I have joined ESMB and that I am already addicted. It is heaven for me to be into the thick of things, reading different views, reading reports from the past and present. I did not post for a while because I just had to do some regular academic work.

2. Even if I came to the view that Scientology is not a religion, I would still teach on it because it is such an amazing story + so many others think it is a religion. By the way, Sci as religion is a complicated issue for all the reasons noted in this thread.

3. Just curious...is any member of the Board a Scientologist?

4. Have not given up on this board or Christian faith However, I prefer that our discussions here stick to explicit Sci issues since that is what the board is about.

5. I would not work with Gordon Melton if I thought he was anything like some of the options outlined on this thread. As I noted earlier, I strongly disagree with him on some topics and think he has made some very crucial errors re some groups. However, these errors can be explained without resorting to really nasty views.

[TG1]

LOL! Welcome to Heaven, Jim.



TG1

P.S. Yes, there are Scientologists here on the Board -- but they're Freezoners or Indies or Ron's Org (or some other affiliation or lack thereof?). However, other than OSA types who stir things up here from time to time, I doubt any ESMB members are active members of the Church of Scientology.

[anonomog]

Hi Jim,
If a student in your class came to you to let you know s/he was dropping out of your class, and university, to join the Sea Org what would you do or say?

[NoName]

Hi Jim,
If a student in your class came to you to let you know s/he was dropping out of your class, and university, to join the Sea Org what would you do or say?

Funny, I was about to post the same question except I was going to ask son/daughter. I'm interested in what Jim the father has to say rather than Professor Beverley. Both about a kid being Public and Sea Org.

[The_Fixer]

My responses in bold.

Not Scared off, not even close...

Glad to hear it.

1. I have told friends and family this week that I have joined ESMB and that I am already addicted. It is heaven for me to be into the thick of things, reading different views, reading reports from the past and present. I did not post for a while because I just had to do some regular academic work.

Sounds like most of us here apart from the academia.

2. Even if I came to the view that Scientology is not a religion, I would still teach on it because it is such an amazing story + so many others think it is a religion. By the way, Sci as religion is a complicated issue for all the reasons noted in this thread.

3. Just curious...is any member of the Board a Scientologist?

I think TG1's post above says it for the most part.

4. Have not given up on this board or Christian faith However, I prefer that our discussions here stick to explicit Sci issues since that is what the board is about.

We do tend to discuss other issues as they occur, since Scn on it's own eventually gets to be pretty dry reading.

5. I would not work with Gordon Melton if I thought he was anything like some of the options outlined on this thread. As I noted earlier, I strongly disagree with him on some topics and think he has made some very crucial errors re some groups. However, these errors can be explained without resorting to really nasty views..

Things get pretty emotional around here at times and some unfortunate things do get said in the heat of the moment. That said, there are also some people here whose natures are, shall we say, a little prickly as well. It can get like a kindergarten at times and I often have to shake my head about they way some people behave at times.

As some others have said, we don't really know the full story or the circumstances that led to some of Gordon Melton's conclusions. Given some of the horrific stories from many of our members, it is understandable that there would be some very emotional reactions to his statements, just as there would be from "church" members who felt that their "religion" was being "attacked".

[Veda]

My responses in bold.

My opinion of Melton is not based on an "emotional reaction." It's based on observation and reason.

[Mark A. Baker]

Not Scared off, not even close...

1. I have told friends and family this week that I have joined ESMB and that I am already addicted. It is heaven for me to be into the thick of things, reading different views, reading reports from the past and present. I did not post for a while because I just had to do some regular academic work.

Well, you can't be too addicted if you still find time for a life elsewhere.

... 3. Just curious...is any member of the Board a Scientologist? ...

There are lurkers of course, and a very few freezoners or independents. Not very many of the latter though, contrary to the complaints of a few of the more vehement critics. The few fz'ers who are around definitely tend towards acceptance of, if not outright preference for, 'non-standard' varieties of scientology.

Myself for example. I consider myself a freezone scientologist. Yet, as such I manage to ruffle as many feathers among 'hubbard loyalists' in the freezone as I do among vehement critics. However, both such sub-groups tend to be minority, if rather noisy, sub-groups of their respective communities. And frankly, and not surprisingly, all these sub-divisions & sub-groupings tend to be rather loosely defined and largely self-identificatory. So it's not like some sort of solid boundaries are being transgressed.

... 4. Have not given up on this board or Christian faith However, I prefer that our discussions here stick to explicit Sci issues since that is what the board is about. ...

Not true actually, although that mistaken assumption is commonly made.

The board is a discussion forum for ex-scientologists. Of course others are welcome, but the purpose of the board is to promote open communication among former scientologists, and wherever possible, those scientologists currently 'in' who nonetheless are willing to be exposed to and communicate with 'those apostate squirrels'.

The board is open for ALL topics of discussion.

Some specific topics are best reserved for various sub-fora. Most topics bleed over from thread to thread.

Those topics relating to spirituality, human potential, or religion are all especially deemed 'fair game'. Lots of people with previous involvement with the church may be said to have 'interests' relating to these topics particularly.

Hope you brought your asbestos underwear.

Any questions? See Emma. It's her board.

... 5. I would not work with Gordon Melton if I thought he was anything like some of the options outlined on this thread. As I noted earlier, I strongly disagree with him on some topics and think he has made some very crucial errors re some groups. However, these errors can be explained without resorting to really nasty views.

Unfortunately the adverse experiences of many have made a few regulars here rather antagonistic to ANYTHING they may perceive as supportive of l.ron hubbard, the church of scientology, or the ideas embodied in the subject of philosophy. Whether that to which objection is lodged actually is supportive is irrelevant. The mere perception of an apparently supportive element is enough to earn calumny. The feeling or recognition of an emotional response serves as sufficient justification. Anything less than full antagonism may be regarded as 'wrong' or at best 'misguided' by some.


Mark A. Baker

[Boomima]

My opinion of Melton is not based on an "emotional reaction." It's based on observation and reason.

Mine is based upon what he's written, said in public and actually done. That's all we have, really.

[Lermanet_com]

Ida Camburn did tell me that Gordon Melton sent the CFF, the Citizens Freedom Foundation a letter saying he would be willing to assist their cause for $5,000. This was in approximately 1980. I have Ida's files in storage, the letter itself may be there.

[HelluvaHoax!]

Unfortunately the adverse experiences of many have made a few regulars here rather antagonistic to ANYTHING they may perceive as supportive of l.ron hubbard, the church of scientology, or the ideas embodied in the subject of philosophy. Whether that to which objection is lodged actually is supportive is irrelevant. The mere perception of an apparently supportive element is enough to earn calumny. The feeling or recognition of an emotional response serves as sufficient justification. Anything less than full antagonism may be regarded as 'wrong' or at best 'misguided' by some.
Mark A. Baker

TRANSLATION FOR NON-SCIENTOLOGISTS: It is a fact that only the ignorant (i.e. those who don't understand the tech) or emotionally disturbed (i.e. low toned and/or banky) disagree with my opinions.