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Thread: Is any ex truly out?

  1. #241

    Default Re: Is any ex truly out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Claire Swazey View Post
    ... Could it be that I (maybe others?) respond better to a more intuitive approach than one that spells out every blessed teeny weeny little step- as auditing would-?
    For some jobs you need a screw driver, for some you need a wrench, for some you require a knife, for some a hammer might suit, ...


    Mark A. Baker
    "Hubbard is alive and well. He lives through his
    creations."
    - Purple Rain



    "Because nothing has the be true forever. Just for long enough, to tell you the truth."

    - T. Pratchett, The Truth

  2. #242

    Default Re: Is any ex truly out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caliwog View Post
    ... Wait, what?
    He's correct. The most that evidence does is support a particular hypothesis. It can not prove it to be true.

    That is why so much attention is directed in science on evidence which seeks to disprove an hypothesis. That produces a definite result which completely eliminates a possible hypothesis. Nothing so definite results from supportive evidence.

    Science is not a method used for establishing truth. It is an iterative process used to eliminate competing hypotheses about the truth.


    Mark A. Baker
    "Hubbard is alive and well. He lives through his
    creations."
    - Purple Rain



    "Because nothing has the be true forever. Just for long enough, to tell you the truth."

    - T. Pratchett, The Truth

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  4. #243
    Among velleities johnAnchovie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is any ex truly out?

    I remain utterly astounded at the degree that all the scientology tech I experienced over a 22 year full immersion career proved to be useless and in every way pointless for me in this real world.

    Contact assist: Pain tends to naturally reduce over time, try it, bang your thumb let it heal. A few months after finding my way back to reality I was reassembling a drum brake set on my old Ford, I caught a finger in a ratchet mechanism. I made a point of NOT doing a contact or any other kind of assist once said finger was extracted, I observed that the pain dissipated at the same rate that it would with a contact and the healing rate over the next days was identical. (just so as you know I am making a real comparison, before I was transferred to Finance a year before getting out, I was the Saint Hill Motor Pool Officer. I had been demoted to that WONDERFUL post (I loved that work actually, despite the mad and dangerous schedules and a complete lack of any health and safety provisions, it was frankly a dangerous and an illegal working environment! ) a few years previously. I spent a lot of time pulling out gear boxes, replacing timing gear and other dirty, heavy, hard and rewarding vehicle work, and I hurt, bashed and pinched a lot of fingers.

    Tone Scale: Well, I found that sitting down with my love, and going through whatever difficulties we may be facing and dealing honestly and openly and allowing ourselves to feel the full range of angers, resentments, fears, joy, deadness, tears of sorrow openly and without restrains ultimately freeing and I think deeply healing. With Scientology tone stuff it was an avoidance of these emotions that was in play, we had to force a fabricated emotion over the real one because that real one was socially unacceptable, indeed frowned upon in the manufactured scientology play world.

    Aberration and bank dramatizations: Again, these things honestly expressed and faced up to with honesty and reality tend to dissipate. I have spent many, many hours with people as they rant and scream or yell and cry and act like babies but tend to come through it cleansed and emboldened. I am not taking about anything like auditing, just working with people having hard time as people have worked with me did and still do. I am not aiming for a perfect state, clear OT or whatever, just a sense of equilibrium, a balance, revivification or a compassion for anyone, whatever it is they 'dramatize'. My niece is bi-polar, we care for her and manage the condition. It is not an 'aberration' or 'dramatization' it is a neurological congenital condition and is dealt with the right kind of medical supervision, patience, care and love for the girl. We try to give her as normal a life as we possibly can. She does as well as can be expected.

    Out 2d: I did a show with a bunch of transgendered people a couple of years ago, what a fuck-ink wonderfully eyeopening experience. blew away whatever last vestiges of 'stick up-the-arse' false scientology morality was left haunting me, what a wonderful bunch of mad people they were. Humbling, refreshing. My gay pals at uni, some of the most honest and emotionally mature men I have ever met. Not to mention the weekend party I attended with my partner for a lesbian friend of hers, they had rented a whole hotel for about 60 women for the weekend. My very attractive partner and I were the only 'straight' couple there. I was the only guy. several shaven headed, tattooed, leather wearing 'ladies' tried to pick up my woman, I kind of didn't want to pick a fight with them, they were a lot tougher than me. Diplomacy and a locked bedroom door worked just fine. What great people, what a great weekend, I made some very wonderful friends there.

    Dynamics? It is just life around us, why break it up artificially? My day involves myself, my woman, the kids, a menagerie of assorted animals. My University, the car, the bank, taxes, local and government services, whatever international causes I might be involved in with Amnesty or global and environmental causes and on. I just live it, enjoy it, get frustrated with it, deal with it and don't analyze it like that.

    Scales and conditions and shit? Why? You deal with stuff intelligently and honestly and efficiently. If I am late with an essay I don't run through a bunch of conditions, I take the points hit and get better organized next time round. Imagine if I tried to apply conditions to my language courses? It would be stupid, I would be adding a whole layer of complexity on top of what I am doing anyway. How daft!

    The Complex: Imagine applying scientology tech to an anti-scientology book that did very well indeed for this first time author. No thanks to you 'Dr.' Hubbard. But I suppose I should thank you for giving me all that material. What I would have written though had I never encountered the cult of the fat turd? I know i would have, because I was writing before I joined and stopped for 22 years.

    Study tech: I am just about to graduate a four year university degree. I consciously avoided any study tech whatsoever. I have never learned so much and had such a bloody wonderful time doing it. Critical analysis works and it helps people!

    Communication? I think I do alright, don't you?

    Scientology imposes itself on normal life in a parasitic and leech-like fashion. It dirties and distorts the real world and I can quite honestly say that I simply cannot find anything good about it at all.

    So if an ex is not out, then it is either a case of being too scared to trust themselves outside of the ridged confines and control of the cult. I could say they were being cowards, but that would not be true. I cannot in fact say why it is, it puzzles me still and no amount of explanation from people with tech, Hubbard or Scientology sympathies have made any sense to me to date. Those that have left it behind, to me, seem happier, more liberated and indeed more honest that those who hold onto some bit of tech or the indi or freezone. This is just my opinion, just my experience, that is all. I think Christian evangelicals and Muslim fanatics are weird too. I remain puzzled by Catholics, Unitarians and Anglicans. So I suppose it is just bad ol' anti-theist me?
    Last edited by johnAnchovie; 30th March 2012 at 02:21 AM.
    A general loathing of a gang or sect usually has some sound basis in instinct.


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  6. #244
    Gottabrain
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    Default Re: Is any ex truly out?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnAnchovie View Post
    I remain utterly astounded at the degree that all the scientology tech I experienced over a 22 year full immersion career proved to be useless and in every way pointless for me in this real world.
    ....
    Scientology imposes itself on normal life in a parasitic and leech-like fashion. It dirties and distorts the real world and I can quite honestly say that I simply cannot find anything good about it at all.


    You're such a gem, John. Terrific post, how could I add to it? You said it all so simply and easily.

  7. #245
    Silver Meritorious Patron GreyLensman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is any ex truly out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Claire Swazey View Post
    When I was in, I was- if not obsessed- certainly intensely preoccupied with how I wasn't what I should be. Cuz they kept telling me that.

    It was very worrisome.
    Yep. I love that the first step after saying how wonderful <insert auditing action here> was and how you would love if everyone could have the result of <insert EP of level here> and that only LRH could have brought you <blah blah blah> - is to be stuck in a room with someone whose intention is to make you feel like shit enough to pay more money for the next service that will do <insert EP here> and allow you to make far more than the <insert cost here> you will borrow for <insert next service here>/

    I always, always resented and dodged the reg immediately after a completion - I think I managed to escape about 75% of the time.
    Please call me by my true names
    so I can hear all my cries and laughs at once...
    --
    Thich Nhat Hanh

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  9. #246
    Patron with Honors TheRealNoUser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is any ex truly out?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnAnchovie View Post
    snip... Communication? I think I do alright, don't you? ...snip
    Absolutely perfect.

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  11. #247
    Patron Meritorious Caliwog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is any ex truly out?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnAnchovie;675296[B
    Contact assist:[/B] Pain tends to naturally reduce over time, try it, bang your thumb let it heal.
    As a WOG at an Admin Tech company, I used to love these things. Where else could you ASK an attractive woman to touch you all over your body, and NOT get written up for sexual harassment? I wanted to learn how to do them, in the vain home that one particularly well-endowed co-worker would injure her chest and need my help.

    A wog co-worker and I did seriously consider kicking each other in the balls just to see what the touch assist would be like.
    ML,
    Caliwog
    http://caliwog.wordpress.com

    ---

    "Disconnection, Fair Game, derogatory and discriminatory labeling of "SPs" and "Wogs," dirt-digging on perceived enemies, "dead agent packs," equating of criticism of Scientology with criminality, hostility toward homosexuality, journalism, psychiatry... David Miscavige didn't create these policies (though he's done a bang-up job implementing many of them), they're entirely a product of Hubbard's paranoid, megalomaniacal mind" -- Tony Ortega

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  13. #248
    Patron Meritorious Caliwog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is any ex truly out?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnAnchovie View Post
    Communication? I think I do alright, don't you?
    Hell yeah. I honestly think this is one of the best posts I've ever read on ESMB.
    ML,
    Caliwog
    http://caliwog.wordpress.com

    ---

    "Disconnection, Fair Game, derogatory and discriminatory labeling of "SPs" and "Wogs," dirt-digging on perceived enemies, "dead agent packs," equating of criticism of Scientology with criminality, hostility toward homosexuality, journalism, psychiatry... David Miscavige didn't create these policies (though he's done a bang-up job implementing many of them), they're entirely a product of Hubbard's paranoid, megalomaniacal mind" -- Tony Ortega

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  15. #249
    Gold Meritorious Patron Stat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is any ex truly out?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnAnchovie View Post
    I remain utterly astounded at the degree that all the scientology tech I experienced over a 22 year full immersion career proved to be useless and in every way pointless for me in this real world.

    Contact assist: Pain tends to naturally reduce over time, try it, bang your thumb let it heal. A few months after finding my way back to reality I was reassembling a drum brake set on my old Ford, I caught a finger in a ratchet mechanism. I made a point of NOT doing a contact or any other kind of assist once said finger was extracted, I observed that the pain dissipated at the same rate that it would with a contact and the healing rate over the next days was identical. (just so as you know I am making a real comparison, before I was transferred to Finance a year before getting out, I was the Saint Hill Motor Pool Officer. I had been demoted to that WONDERFUL post (I loved that work actually, despite the mad and dangerous schedules and a complete lack of any health and safety provisions, it was frankly a dangerous and an illegal working environment! ) a few years previously. I spent a lot of time pulling out gear boxes, replacing timing gear and other dirty, heavy, hard and rewarding vehicle work, and I hurt, bashed and pinched a lot of fingers.

    Tone Scale: Well, I found that sitting down with my love, and going through whatever difficulties we may be facing and dealing honestly and openly and allowing ourselves to feel the full range of angers, resentments, fears, joy, deadness, tears of sorrow openly and without restrains ultimately freeing and I think deeply healing. With Scientology tone stuff it was an avoidance of these emotions that was in play, we had to force a fabricated emotion over the real one because that real one was socially unacceptable, indeed frowned upon in the manufactured scientology play world.

    Aberration and bank dramatizations: Again, these things honestly expressed and faced up to with honesty and reality tend to dissipate. I have spent many, many hours with people as they rant and scream or yell and cry and act like babies but tend to come through it cleansed and emboldened. I am not taking about anything like auditing, just working with people having hard time as people have worked with me did and still do. I am not aiming for a perfect state, clear OT or whatever, just a sense of equilibrium, a balance, revivification or a compassion for anyone, whatever it is they 'dramatize'. My niece is bi-polar, we care for her and manage the condition. It is not an 'aberration' or 'dramatization' it is a neurological congenital condition and is dealt with the right kind of medical supervision, patience, care and love for the girl. We try to give her as normal a life as we possibly can. She does as well as can be expected.

    Out 2d: I did a show with a bunch of transgendered people a couple of years ago, what a fuck-ink wonderfully eyeopening experience. blew away whatever last vestiges of 'stick up-the-arse' false scientology morality was left haunting me, what a wonderful bunch of mad people they were. Humbling, refreshing. My gay pals at uni, some of the most honest and emotionally mature men I have ever met. Not to mention the weekend party I attended with my partner for a lesbian friend of hers, they had rented a whole hotel for about 60 women for the weekend. My very attractive partner and I were the only 'straight' couple there. I was the only guy. several shaven headed, tattooed, leather wearing 'ladies' tried to pick up my woman, I kind of didn't want to pick a fight with them, they were a lot tougher than me. Diplomacy and a locked bedroom door worked just fine. What great people, what a great weekend, I made some very wonderful friends there.

    Dynamics? It is just life around us, why break it up artificially? My day involves myself, my woman, the kids, a menagerie of assorted animals. My University, the car, the bank, taxes, local and government services, whatever international causes I might be involved in with Amnesty or global and environmental causes and on. I just live it, enjoy it, get frustrated with it, deal with it and don't analyze it like that.

    Scales and conditions and shit? Why? You deal with stuff intelligently and honestly and efficiently. If I am late with an essay I don't run through a bunch of conditions, I take the points hit and get better organized next time round. Imagine if I tried to apply conditions to my language courses? It would be stupid, I would be adding a whole layer of complexity on top of what I am doing anyway. How daft!

    The Complex: Imagine applying scientology tech to an anti-scientology book that did very well indeed for this first time author. No thanks to you 'Dr.' Hubbard. But I suppose I should thank you for giving me all that material. What I would have written though had I never encountered the cult of the fat turd? I know i would have, because I was writing before I joined and stopped for 22 years.

    Study tech: I am just about to graduate a four year university degree. I consciously avoided any study tech whatsoever. I have never learned so much and had such a bloody wonderful time doing it. Critical analysis works and it helps people!

    Communication? I think I do alright, don't you?

    Scientology imposes itself on normal life in a parasitic and leech-like fashion. It dirties and distorts the real world and I can quite honestly say that I simply cannot find anything good about it at all.

    So if an ex is not out, then it is either a case of being too scared to trust themselves outside of the ridged confines and control of the cult. I could say they were being cowards, but that would not be true. I cannot in fact say why it is, it puzzles me still and no amount of explanation from people with tech, Hubbard or Scientology sympathies have made any sense to me to date. Those that have left it behind, to me, seem happier, more liberated and indeed more honest that those who hold onto some bit of tech or the indi or freezone. This is just my opinion, just my experience, that is all. I think Christian evangelicals and Muslim fanatics are weird too. I remain puzzled by Catholics, Unitarians and Anglicans. So I suppose it is just bad ol' anti-theist me?
    Holy shit! John, this post of yours should be etched on titanium plate, ESMB style.
    It can be both very educational and therapeutic for many. Thank you, good Sir.
    "If you have an innocence of being, curiosity about life, a liking of people, and a feeling of sweetness inside, you have everything." ~ Smilla's Mom.

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  17. #250
    Fool on the Hill Claire Swazey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is any ex truly out?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreyLensman View Post
    Yep. I love that the first step after saying how wonderful <insert auditing action here> was and how you would love if everyone could have the result of <insert EP of level here> and that only LRH could have brought you <blah blah blah> - is to be stuck in a room with someone whose intention is to make you feel like shit enough to pay more money for the next service that will do <insert EP here> and allow you to make far more than the <insert cost here> you will borrow for <insert next service here>/

    I always, always resented and dodged the reg immediately after a completion - I think I managed to escape about 75% of the time.
    Oh, and plus- they tended to tell people that they'd have more money coming in if they bought this or that action or course, because then the person would be more capable and the money would then come rollin' in. (presumably then to go to the coffers of CofS, yah?)
    There are some who make a habit of telling me what I believe and why I do things, and are then unwilling to listen to me about what I actually think. They're full of shit.

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