The (almost) perfect COVERTLY HOSTILE thread by Marty

[rockyslammer]

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/201...comment-192727

I don't post very often but I feel a rage coming on. Marty says:-

"The eighties leaders were different than current leaders in that the former ultimately were bought."

What the fuck!!

My answer to Jim Logan in very understated language but I still doubt it will get past the censor.

"Jim,

David Mayo is a 70 year old who is actively living his life.

Sadly he got the worst treatment of anyone I have ever heard of from Scientology. The worst has never been published. If and when the gag agreements get shot full of holes he may be persuaded to tell everything. There is a lot to tell.

But the owners of this site know very well how he was hamstrung, after all - they did the hamstringing. Still I doubt (I sincerely hope anyway) they know the worst of what was done to him by Miscavidge. I doubt many here would have handled it so well - so before you condemn realise that you have no inkling of what went down.

I was in very many centres of Independence in the 80's and I do not know of any leader who was "bought" off. Was Bill Robertson bought?, I know Jon Atack was bankrupted, I know Robin Scott went to prison after refusing to accept a payoff to falsely incriminate others (me included). So who, exactly, was bought?

As far as I know David Mayo settled under conditions that didn't benefit him financially. Any cash received went to his financial sponsor to pay legal bills. His legal collapsed when his sponsor pulled the plug.

Remember at that time there was no internet or anonymous to assist. Things were totally different then. The two people "we" (the Royal "we") praise today were in fact responsible for many of the shameful things that were done to David Mayo.

David Mayo won't speak for himself on these matters because of his gag agreement. At 70 years of age I can assure you that no one wants that sort of shitstorm happening again. Of course if he had substantial backers to fight and win any legal action he may be persuaded but I doubt it.

He has stated many times he is no longer a scientologist and has no interest in furthering it.

Just saying!
regards
Martin Ruston"

Talk about false statements and generalities!! I am (nearly) speechless!

I don't know any 80's leaders who were bought. I know a few who were crushed. Didn't Debbie and her husband take $100,000? She is a current leader isn't she?

I don't know why marty has to keep coming back to "get" those 80's pioneers but he does. Last time he was shocked by the responses he had praising David Mayo. Now he is coming back for a second pasting. The man has no brains.

It isn't necessary for Marty to destroy David Mayo (the person he refers to covertly). If Marty wants the scientology billions I can hereby assure him David Mayo wants NO claim to any of it. David Mayo is NO threat to him!!!

In David Mayo's own words in his latest email to me. I hope David won't mind me pasting it here. I won't post the whole email - that he may mind!!

"Personally, I'd rather continue to be poor, honest and having nothing to do with any of them."

So martY, if you are reading this - please let an elderly man in peace - please!

I don't normally let marty get to me - I have very little interest in his ideas and opinions but sometimes his blatant hypocrisy does fire me up especially when I see him still trying to fuck over friends of mine - still - after 30 years!!

However, if marty does get his hands on the billion I hope he sees fit to throw a million odd to David Mayo as compensation and maybe a few odd thousands to others who were royally fucked by Miscavidge and his henchmen. I won't hold my breath though.

regards to all
Martin

[rockyslammer]

martin ruston | March 24, 2012 at 9:30 pm | Reply

THIS POST IS SO FULL OF FALSE DATA AND MISLEADING INNUENDO, I’LL POST IT ONLY UNDER THE CONDITION OF RESPONDING TO A FEW OF THE OFFENDING PASSAGES IN CAPS BY THEM. BY THE TONE LEVEL AND ETHICS LEVEL DEMONSTRATED BY THE HANDLING OF INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION IT IS HIGHLY LIKELY THIS CAT WON’T LEARN AND WILL BE THE LAST POST. JUST MY GUESS. – MARTY
Jim,

David Mayo is a 70 year old who is actively living his life.

Sadly he got the worst treatment of anyone I have ever heard of from Scientology.
THAT IS UTTER BULLSHIT. THIS BLOG DOCUMENTS MANY, MANY CASE WHO RECEIVED FAR WORSE.

The worst has never been published.
HOW COULD THAT POSSIBLY BE SINCE HE HAD EIGHT YEARS AT BATTLE WITH C OF S IN WHICH TO COMMUNICATE IT?

If and when the gag agreements get shot full of holes he may be persuaded to tell everything. There is a lot to tell.
THE ONLY THING LIKELY TO BE TOLD THAT HASN’T BEEN – SINCE HE WAS DEPOSED FOR MANY DAYS, AND HAD EIGHT YEARS TO COMMUNICATE BEFORE TAKING THE MONEY AND RUNNING, IS THE AMOUNT AND TERMS OF HIS SETTLEMENT.

But the owners of this site know very well how he was hamstrung, after all – they did the hamstringing.
I AM THE ONLY OWNER OF THIS SITE AND I KNOW OF KNOW HAMSTRINGING THAT HAS NOT ALREADY BEEN DISCLOSED ON THE PUBLIC RECORD.

Still I doubt (I sincerely hope anyway) they know the worst of what was done to him by Miscavidge. I doubt many here would have handled it so well – so before you condemn realise that you have no inkling of what went down.
I KNOW MANY WHO HAVE HANDLED BETTER AND ARE CONTINUING TO DO SO – BY THE VERY SIMPLE DISTINCTION THAT THEY WOULD NEVER DREAM OF TAKING BLOOD MONEY AND RUNNING.

I was in very many centres of Independence in the 80′s and I do not know of any leader who was “bought” off. Was Bill Robertson bought?, I know Jon Atack was bankrupted, I know Robin Scott went to prison after refusing to accept a payoff to falsely incriminate others (me included). So who, exactly, was bought?
I ANSWERED THIS SO MANY TIMES I CAN ONLY ASSUME YOU PREACHING AND NOT LISTENING OR READING.

As far as I know David Mayo settled under conditions that didn’t benefit him financially. Any cash received went to his financial sponsor to pay legal bills. His legal collapsed when his sponsor pulled the plug.
YOU ARE ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT THAT THROWS DAVID’S HONESTY AND INTEGRITY TO YOU AND HIS OTHER FOLLOWERS. IT IS 100% UNADULTERATED BULLSHIT.

Remember at that time there was no internet or anonymous to assist.
ANONYMOUS IS ASSISTING ME? TELL THEM THAT AND SEE WHAT IT BUYS YOU. THIS SOUNDS LIKE A C OF S FALSE ALLEGATION.

Things were totally different then. The two people “we” (the Royal “we”) praise today were in fact responsible for many of the shameful things that were done to David Mayo.
DUB IN AND OPENS NO DOOR TO A HANDING, EXCEPT FOR YOU TO START CALLING US SIR, SINCE YOU ARE EFFECTIVELY SAYING WE CAUSED DAVID MAYO’S STATE. WHEN I SAY THAT ABOUT DAVID MISCAVIGE IS THE DAY I CHECK MY THETAN IN.

David Mayo won’t speak for himself on these matters because of his gag agreement.
IF IT IS SO ONEROUS AND DONE WITH A GUN TO HIS HEAD, WHY DOESN’T HE? DEBBIE DID.

At 70 years of age I can assure you that no one wants that sort of shitstorm happening again.
I RESPECT THAT AND THAT IS WHY I DON’T MAKE AN ISSUE OF IT. BUT, CLOWNS LIKE YOU KEEP TRYING TO CONSTRUCT A SHRINE WITH LIES ON MY BLOG; AND THIS BLOG IS ABOUT TRUTH SO I AM COMPELLED TO RESPOND.

Of course if he had substantial backers to fight and win any legal action he may be persuaded but I doubt it.
LIKE HE HAD I THE 80′S AND 90′S? AGAIN, YOU BLACK PR YOUR OWN MAN.

He has stated many times he is no longer a scientologist and has no interest in furthering it.

I REST MY CASE

Just saying!
JUST RESPONDING
regards
ALL THE BEST
Martin Ruston

[Lovinglife625]

FWIW, something for you Rocky that might help clarify some of what was done in the early 1980s to shut people up by following Hubbard's policies re the use of litigation (including Paulette Cooper and Gerry Armstrong).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/36579546/S...Ok-by-Spec-Pjt

For your information:

"Spec Unit LE" is short for "Special Unit Litigation Execution". That was Marty Rathbun.

"Spct Pjt L" is short for "Special Project L" which is what became Author Services. That was Norman Starkey. Norman was run by David Miscavige.

As a note, at the top of the issue, Rick Moxon was given a "very well done".

[rockyslammer]

My reply - Am I being "reasonable" here?

Marty,

I realise that I am in opposition to many of your ideas and opinions. However truth will out and I, like you, believe it is the only answer.

What then exactly is truth? You have your "truth" and I have mine. They don't have to be the same. We can have different truths and I accept that.

However on matters of fact there is usually something that is more true than something else.

Can we deal in specifics please? You started your thread by covertly attacking David Mayo who can not defend himself. I quote your words

"The eighties leaders were different than current leaders in that the former ultimately were bought."

There was no need for the attack was there? Why?

We can argue the toss backwards and forwards till the cows come home and we will probably get no where. I do understand this blog is yours and I must obey your rules. However when you attack someone (as you have in the past) who is a friend then I feel obligated to step in.

I don't know all the specifics - only what I have been told from my side. If your specifics differ then I would be very pleased to listen. After all I certainly want to know if my friends have filled me full of bull.

If you want to do this in private then I can agree to that but I don't see why we should. I have nothing to hide.

However I would appreciate you moderating your tone. I don't call you names and I if I did you would ban me - as you have already intimated. Isn't it possible to have a difference of agreement in your world? Is it possible that you "always attack - never defend"?

If I am wrong - if my facts are wrong I will be the first to apologise. I have nothing personal invested here. There are always two sides to every story. You have a great deal of information and you have your "side". Are you not interested in listening to the other side?

regards
Martin Ruston

martin ruston | March 24, 2012 at 9:30 pm | Reply

THIS POST IS SO FULL OF FALSE DATA AND MISLEADING INNUENDO, I’LL POST IT ONLY UNDER THE CONDITION OF RESPONDING TO A FEW OF THE OFFENDING PASSAGES IN CAPS BY THEM. BY THE TONE LEVEL AND ETHICS LEVEL DEMONSTRATED BY THE HANDLING OF INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION IT IS HIGHLY LIKELY THIS CAT WON’T LEARN AND WILL BE THE LAST POST. JUST MY GUESS. – MARTY
Jim,

David Mayo is a 70 year old who is actively living his life.

Sadly he got the worst treatment of anyone I have ever heard of from Scientology.
THAT IS UTTER BULLSHIT. THIS BLOG DOCUMENTS MANY, MANY CASE WHO RECEIVED FAR WORSE.

The worst has never been published.
HOW COULD THAT POSSIBLY BE SINCE HE HAD EIGHT YEARS AT BATTLE WITH C OF S IN WHICH TO COMMUNICATE IT?

If and when the gag agreements get shot full of holes he may be persuaded to tell everything. There is a lot to tell.
THE ONLY THING LIKELY TO BE TOLD THAT HASN’T BEEN – SINCE HE WAS DEPOSED FOR MANY DAYS, AND HAD EIGHT YEARS TO COMMUNICATE BEFORE TAKING THE MONEY AND RUNNING, IS THE AMOUNT AND TERMS OF HIS SETTLEMENT.

But the owners of this site know very well how he was hamstrung, after all – they did the hamstringing.
I AM THE ONLY OWNER OF THIS SITE AND I KNOW OF KNOW HAMSTRINGING THAT HAS NOT ALREADY BEEN DISCLOSED ON THE PUBLIC RECORD.

Still I doubt (I sincerely hope anyway) they know the worst of what was done to him by Miscavidge. I doubt many here would have handled it so well – so before you condemn realise that you have no inkling of what went down.
I KNOW MANY WHO HAVE HANDLED BETTER AND ARE CONTINUING TO DO SO – BY THE VERY SIMPLE DISTINCTION THAT THEY WOULD NEVER DREAM OF TAKING BLOOD MONEY AND RUNNING.

I was in very many centres of Independence in the 80′s and I do not know of any leader who was “bought” off. Was Bill Robertson bought?, I know Jon Atack was bankrupted, I know Robin Scott went to prison after refusing to accept a payoff to falsely incriminate others (me included). So who, exactly, was bought?
I ANSWERED THIS SO MANY TIMES I CAN ONLY ASSUME YOU PREACHING AND NOT LISTENING OR READING.

As far as I know David Mayo settled under conditions that didn’t benefit him financially. Any cash received went to his financial sponsor to pay legal bills. His legal collapsed when his sponsor pulled the plug.
YOU ARE ONLY MAKING A STATEMENT THAT THROWS DAVID’S HONESTY AND INTEGRITY TO YOU AND HIS OTHER FOLLOWERS. IT IS 100% UNADULTERATED BULLSHIT.

Remember at that time there was no internet or anonymous to assist.
ANONYMOUS IS ASSISTING ME? TELL THEM THAT AND SEE WHAT IT BUYS YOU. THIS SOUNDS LIKE A C OF S FALSE ALLEGATION.

Things were totally different then. The two people “we” (the Royal “we”) praise today were in fact responsible for many of the shameful things that were done to David Mayo.
DUB IN AND OPENS NO DOOR TO A HANDING, EXCEPT FOR YOU TO START CALLING US SIR, SINCE YOU ARE EFFECTIVELY SAYING WE CAUSED DAVID MAYO’S STATE. WHEN I SAY THAT ABOUT DAVID MISCAVIGE IS THE DAY I CHECK MY THETAN IN.

David Mayo won’t speak for himself on these matters because of his gag agreement.
IF IT IS SO ONEROUS AND DONE WITH A GUN TO HIS HEAD, WHY DOESN’T HE? DEBBIE DID.

At 70 years of age I can assure you that no one wants that sort of shitstorm happening again.
I RESPECT THAT AND THAT IS WHY I DON’T MAKE AN ISSUE OF IT. BUT, CLOWNS LIKE YOU KEEP TRYING TO CONSTRUCT A SHRINE WITH LIES ON MY BLOG; AND THIS BLOG IS ABOUT TRUTH SO I AM COMPELLED TO RESPOND.

Of course if he had substantial backers to fight and win any legal action he may be persuaded but I doubt it.
LIKE HE HAD I THE 80′S AND 90′S? AGAIN, YOU BLACK PR YOUR OWN MAN.

He has stated many times he is no longer a scientologist and has no interest in furthering it.

I REST MY CASE

Just saying!
JUST RESPONDING
regards
ALL THE BEST
Martin Ruston

[MostlyLurker]

When I read that blogpost of Marty I decided to not comment to not open that matter again. Now I've read the comments I feel a outraged too at dishonesty of Marty and the blindness of his followers.

I wonder why that new attack on the old independents. Why Marty fears them (or fears him)? Marty obviously enjoy the power his flock flows to him, he is after power, as he was after power while in the cult.

Anyway, that blogpost and the comments that follows are a great lesson of arrogance, group thinking and false data.

But it is their kingdom there, it is not an open forum, you have no chances to speak any kind of truth there that doesn't please the king.

They still haven't graduated from Scientology, and I feel a little sad for them. And reading that bullshit, the arrogance, lack of granting beingness, the lack of greatness, lack of peace of mind makes me think that they deserve to remain scientologists after all.

[Mystic]

Huh? Wha...? Anything scientology is of any importance? Naw. No longer. Just a has-been cult including the indies, outies, overies and undies.

[MostlyLurker]

Old leaders are guilty of giving up the fight for Scientology. That's the main leverage they use, against old leaders, with their flock. That "bought off" issue is perfect to explain why someone left the battle, and to make him look bad to a still believer, but it is far from true. If Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun were honest, they would tell their flock that David Mayo left the battle for Scientology because it was a battle not wort fighting, he was no longer a scientologist long before they handed him the check. THEY handed him the check. Also, if they were honest and sincere they would show some regret for the dirty tricks and criminal behavior they engaged against early independents. They don't, they were right then and are right now in their own mind. They blame those who left the con game of their fake religion. With no gratitude for any contribution given, in the real evil style of their piece of shit L. Ronald Hubbard.

MostlyLurker | March 25, 2012 at 12:52 am | Reply
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
It’s not only hard, it is stupid to die for any religion. I have yet to see a religion that does not harm its people, Scientology too. What I liked of Scientology was the philosophy, not the religion.

[Free to shine]

I think Marty's reply shows it is a very sensitive spot for him indeed. He knows he did wrong and all he has to fall back on are scientology labels, attacks and bullshit. I hope more and more of his readers become educated in other parts of the net, and see him for what he is.

[rockyslammer]

Hell's teeth - ANOTHER reply from Marty!!!

"martyrathbun09 | March 24, 2012 at 11:41 pm | Reply

Thanks Martin. You have provided valuable information narrowing the target of the investigation and evaluation. Really."

Unfortunately I have no idea what he's talking about!! Maybe he thinks this "ack" will stop me in my tracks??!! Can anyone enlighten me?

Too be honest (and I nearly always am) I think the plot here is to get at that billion.

I know I am not the only one to thinks so. After what happened after New years I am now positive. It played too well to be off the cuff.

regards
Martin

[Lovinglife625]

I do not hate Marty and I do not wish to make fun of Marty. And I do not wish to say that I am somehow smarter than or in any way better than Marty.

I am not.

Marty worked for me for about a year and a half before he moved to RTC. He was a hard worker and did not do any of those abusive things to staff that he did to them later. As WDC X and his senior I would not have allowed that in my juniors. I believe even Marty would testify to that. Certainly Karen #1 who also worked for me in Special Unit then would.

That said, it is my opinion that Marty is completely lost and has not even come close to facing the demons he has to someday face when he truly realizes what he has done is not in any way justified by supporting Hubbard and scientology.

The reason why I posted that issue in the #3 posting of this thread is that I believe it is important to understand that Marty oversaw the crushing of the truth and of others in the legal arena, much of which I believe he still thinks is somehow justified. My God it is just not right to shudder someone into silence, force them to settle and then later belittle them for settling.

While Marty's part of Special Unit (the litigation part) was more directly run day to day by Norman Starkey and Miscavige out of Author Services and not by me as Special Unit IC, I still am responsible for it and I deeply regret everything that was done to silence and otherwise try to destroy others on my watch. I find it almost unbearable that this was done on my watch and have tried for years to make up for it in any way I honestly can.

A few more examples that I think are sad.

Marty has had nice things to say about Mary Sue Hubbard and pointed out how badly Miscavige abused her. What I have not seen him say, and perhaps I have missed it, is that he was one of the 17 or so men who went to a weak and frail MarySue shortly after Hubbard died and overwhelmed her into forcibly signing away her rights to the fortune that Hubbard took from organized scientology, much through fraud and horrid intimidation.

Marty had wonderful things to say about Anne Broker and how she went back after escaping the int base as she somehow wanted to protect Hubbard's image or scientology or whatever. But it was Marty who went out and stopped her escape to freedom and dragged her back to the hell, THE HELL, of int where she would live a virtual prisoner the rest of her life, never again to enjoy real freedom and to die horribly.

Marty criticized Miscavige for the squirrel introspection rundown done on Lisa over seventeen days saying it should have been done in two days. My God a beautiful person was KILLED by them following the policies of a man who had ZERO business dealing with matters of mental health and who himself died an incompetent raging madman. Rather than dedicating oneself to making sure such practices are ended forever, Marty is the one to cover up much of the horror (something he admits at least as far as destroying evidence before the police could find it goes). But he still condones the madness of what Hubbard wrote. My God Hubbard said that the last need for psychiatry was gone with this great discovery. He was AT BEST an egotistical madman yet Marty and others glorify him and, more importantly, such dangerous practices.

Marty also sees OSA on all these forums, accusing some others with whom he disagrees as being OSA as if they are something truly to be feared. Personally I think OSA is a joke and welcome them to speak with me anytime. Heck I just had some religious scholar speak with me for about an hour and a half or so who sounds like a really good guy. His first five minutes was trying to explain to me how he was not OSA and I kept telling him I did not care anyway. Screw OSA!!

Marty is in this imagined fight for a tech that is and will remain meaningless and unhelpful to 99%+++ of the population. The "movement" of indees is not and never will amount to much in numbers IMO. Let anyone of them of good heart freely practice the non abusive parts of the "tech" that many of them probably do. That is their right. But the entire idea of it being some great movement, of it protecting a tech even remotely helpful to the world or the imagining of some holy war being raged is a sad, sad and pathetic joke.

One of his goals is to make the public see the difference between his "version" of Hubbard/scientology and that of organized scientology's. What he just does not seem to get is that the public sees them as one and the same and all the coverage he gets and actions he takes is just helping the public to see that it is scientology itself that is that from which one should stay away.

He is helpng do the job of Project Chanology Anonymous and everyone else of good heart who speaks the truth and wishes to stop the madness. He just doesn't realize it.

On a personal level, when I said I was leaving staff with my one year old child in 1984 it was Marty who tried to pressure me into staying saying I was out-ethics for wanting to leave and I should do the RPF. I refused but had I listened my God they would have had control of my one year old baby and it is my belief the greatest thing in my life (a happy daughter and wonderful granddaughter) would never have happened. THAT Marty is what you can destroy by putting Hubbard and his "tech" above family and love.

I'm sure you think I do not get it or I am some big SP but I submit that you don't get it that there is so SO much of love so much better than Hubbard or his "tech" and you have been a big part of destroying it.

THANK YOU for helping point out abuses by Miscavige. But you still have a long way to go, and deeper to go than Miscavige, to find the real causes of abuses in scientology. Like all of us, you have demons of past misdeeds to fight.

Again, I do not hate Marty and I will speak out for the freedom of anyone to have their beliefs, including Marty, as long as they do not hurt others in their practices.

I just think that this whole thing is just, in a word, sad.



brb I haz a sad