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Thread: seductive writing

  1. #41
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    Default Re: seductive writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Claire Swazey View Post
    His formative years were a long time ago. Before women had the vote, some of the time was before WWI, even.

    Of course there were many enlightened non bigoted people then, but far less than now. In fact, political correctness didn't even take hold til about the 1990s.

    Hubbard was certainly older than my folks and they've told me much about their generation. Wasn't uncommon to have all kinds of views that today would be considered at best, naive, and at worst, dangerously bigoted.

    In fact, when German National Socialism was on the rise, it was precisely during Hubbard's generation and there were a LOT of Americans (Like Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh) who were proponents of that and of EUGENICS.
    Hubbard was a man who considered himself, and is considered by his followers, to be a visionary. It's tiresome to find people still defending Hubbard's backward views on race, culture, women's rights, etc. as though it's ok for him to be the jackass he was because "almost everyone else" in the culture of his time held those same views.

    The NAACP was formed in 1909 by mostly white people. Hubbard was born two years later, in 1911 (my mistake above...). The NAACP won the right right for African Americans to serve as officers in WWI. This happened when Hubbard was an infant/toddler -- so there certainly were some visionary people around at that time. WWI ended in 1918. Hubbard was 7 years old.

    Women got the vote in 1920. Hubbard would have been 9 years old -- still a child, hardly of an age to be a mover and shaker in the culture, but he would have grown up in a world where women had full citizenship.

    Usually the cultural influences that most shape a person's character are those that one encounters in late teens, twenties, early thirties.

    The Civil Rights movement was active in USA as early as 1954, when Hubbard was doing much of his writing about the inferiority of other races and cultures. Obviously he wasn't part of that movement, but plenty of others of his generation were.

    Hubbard was expressing his adult views during the time of McCarthyism in USA, late 1940s and 1950s -- not exactly USA's finest hour. His anti-communist sentiments are threaded throughout his work. His progressive cultural and creative contemporaries were the writers and artists of the Beat Generation, who changed the culture while Hubbard was stuck in the past.

    "Political correctness" is a term often used by bigots to make little of people with progressive ideas and beliefs, and to assert their right to their reactionary views. It has little or nothing to do with actual human rights or real cultural progress.

    Thank goodness Hubbard never actually achieved the level of religious and political leadership in this country to which he aspired.

    As I wrote earlier, his cultural opinions and views that are threaded through his work show that he is not at all a man of "vision" -- in fact, he was the opposite.

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  3. #42
    Fool on the Hill Claire Swazey's Avatar
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    Default Re: seductive writing

    By 1954 Hubbard was middle aged and had lived through and past his formative years. And in 54 we had a long way to go. I've read a LOT of history, including books like Black Like Me, Soul Sister (little known- a woman who did the same thing. Amazing book).
    I am my own opinion leader.

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    Default Re: seductive writing

    lol hubbard had 'formative years', good lordy yo, sociopathic liar done good eh!

    The sick dead fuck, had nothing to really help humans... really he didn't.

    :(
    'Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.'
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    THE BIG LIST of EX'S who have Spoken Out fx'd

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    Fool on the Hill Claire Swazey's Avatar
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    Default Re: seductive writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker View Post
    Yeah? Where?

    Racism is just another expression of 'fear of other', a trait common to all cultures at all times. What differs are the local definitions of 'other' and the degree to which the expression of fear is manifested.

    In the late 19th & early 20th century west the concept of white superiority as well as the concept of male superiority was ubiquitous. The progressives of the time were those who advocated extension of rights to minority groups. Those who actually believed in full equality were so rare as to be essentially non-existent. As examples of the times, both Mark Twain & H. L. Mencken were prominent americans notable for their advancement of minority interests and considered quite 'progressive' in their views at the time but whose works are replete with that which the modern world considers openly racist.

    The fact is that the times were different and so too were the community standards.


    Mark A. Baker

    Exactly. Attitudes were different then. That's why I don't get really freaked out about Hubbard's racism or national/racial chauvinism.

    There were some people who were ahead of their time but the farther back you go before the politically correct 90s and especially before the 1970s (by which time Hubbard was almost a senior citizen) the more common it was for people to have racial, sexist and anti- alternative lifetyle attitudes that now would get them fired, banned, ostracized, etc.
    I am my own opinion leader.

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    Default Re: seductive writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Claire Swazey View Post
    By 1954 Hubbard was middle aged and had lived through and past his formative years...
    I guess that would be true if he was one of those people whose social conscience has worn out, whose curiosity has petrified, and who has stopped learning and growing emotionally and intellectually by the time they reach the age of 43, or before.

    Not someone I'd look to for vision or leadership.

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  9. #46
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    Default Re: seductive writing

    He caused a lot of harm and heartbreak by his actions. His racism? Not so much. I don't care, just like I don't get unduly upset when I read "White Man's Burden" or, much later on, some of the attitudes people used to have early mid twentieth century. Frankly, Hubbard's done more than enough real abusive shit for which no date of birth would explain one damn thing. You go your way, I'll just concentrate on what actually happened and that are things not done by people who lived and died generations before Hubbard.
    I am my own opinion leader.

  10. #47
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    Default Re: seductive writing

    Quote Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
    how is that relevant? and what if someone did post "hubbard is cool" isn't this forum a place to be fair about the subject I understand hubbard was sick and abusive but that doesn't necessarily mean all his writings are irrelevant
    So ... which of the writings of this man you call sick and abusive do you think are "relevant"?

    "Relevant" to what?

    just curious

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    Default Re: seductive writing

    Scientology is the SCIENCE of knowing how to:
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    Default Re: seductive writing

    Just wondering how scn got away without being sued for illegal detention or whatever the name is for that crime....with all these guys speaking up..

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    Default Re: seductive writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Claire Swazey View Post
    In general, I think that if some of Hubbard's writings hadn't resonated with people, they'd not have joined or stayed in any length of time. So, I'm sure that a number of people have felt things in Hubbard's writings really made sense, at least at the time they were interested. Sometimes the opinions change upon reexamination, as I'm sure you know.
    Ya gotta believe ! And when I believed I was able to see the brilliant, life changing, society saving, mankind saving data that a super-being of unimaginable intelligence was sharing with me.
    After years of "successes" and the subsequent endless ethics cycles, and being relentlessly battered by the fact that I was the one who was fucked up, IT happened. I was suddenly stricken by the realization that this data I was being fed was the most juvenile nonsensical pap that I had ever seen. Where had my intelligence been. Well, it was back ! And when intellligence and true self-determinism return, the show is over.

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