Marty's latest blog: David Miscavige Killed Lisa McPherson

[Idle Morgue]

Can auditing drive someone insane? I think so. It sounds like Lisa was doing fine in life and then the "services" at Fraud Land Base drove her to a "break". So, if that happens, the Fraud Land Base OFFLOADS you?

There was a guy that was on his OT Levels, Greg Bashie went to Flag, he suffered a bad break down and committed suicide because they OFFLOADED him. I think this happened in 2000 +/-.

Since McPherson's murder by Miscabbage, Fraud Land Base makes a person sign all sorts of releases - in case FRAUD LAND BASE's auditor mess up???? Or in Lisa's case - her C/S, David Mismanagement! RTC says it has nothing to do with the Churches - why is Dwarf Miscarriage C/Sing all of a sudden? Did anyone question this? Marty - did he think this was off policy??

Another oddity - you get auditing, the auditor messes it up - you go home, you need a repair and YOU have to pay to go back, pay to get repaired?? What is the reasoning behind this except FRAUD??? And people do it and act as if that is okay???

Glad to be OUT of that crazy CULT!

[damo]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if anyone else has thought about this.

It seems to me that Marty is goading DM and the CoS into suing him for defamation. He is being deliberately inflammatory and precise - "David Miscavige killed Lisa McPherson". My guess is he wants to have some sort of "battle" against his old foe.

Scientology would be mad to respond, but then they would have to be mad to go for a gag order on an obviously unenforceable non-disclosure agreement. Nothing would surprise me.

[Jquepublic]

Can auditing drive someone insane? I think so. It sounds like Lisa was doing fine in life and then the "services" at Fraud Land Base drove her to a "break". So, if that happens, the Fraud Land Base OFFLOADS you?

There was a guy that was on his OT Levels, Greg Bashie went to Flag, he suffered a bad break down and committed suicide because they OFFLOADED him. I think this happened in 2000 +/-.

Since McPherson's murder by Miscabbage, Fraud Land Base makes a person sign all sorts of releases - in case FRAUD LAND BASE's auditor mess up???? Or in Lisa's case - her C/S, David Mismanagement! RTC says it has nothing to do with the Churches - why is Dwarf Miscarriage C/Sing all of a sudden? Did anyone question this? Marty - did he think this was off policy??

Another oddity - you get auditing, the auditor messes it up - you go home, you need a repair and YOU have to pay to go back, pay to get repaired?? What is the reasoning behind this except FRAUD??? And people do it and act as if that is okay???

Glad to be OUT of that crazy CULT!

I don't think auditing can make one insane. I think auditing someone who is already unstable can put them over the edge, and deliberately misauditing someone could make them temporarily nuts. By this I mean applying the wrong processes or doing tons of listing on questions that aren't reading, forcing items on a preclear, things of that nature. Things that you'd have to be an idiot or downright cruel to do, because like it or not there IS some workability in the processes of Scientology, and when something works, it can also be screwed up.

Imagine taking a person who is perfectly sane in all respects and is insisting that she no longer wants to take part in Scientology. In the mind of a Scientologist, this person is dramatizing something wrong with her case, not a genuine desire to leave. You ignore dramatizations. Some of Lisa's handlers didn't even speak English, they couldn't have engaged in a conversation with her even if they wanted to. Imagine after days, weeks of this, knowing that you are never getting out of there and that nothing you say will make a difference. She had to have known they were never going to let her leave. I can only imagine the frustration and fear that Lisa felt.

To this day I question whether or not Miscavige is even qualified by church standards to CS any case. I don't know how to even try to research it because staff comps are rarely if ever listed on the Scn Service completions. I heard that he watched in on a session and based on what he heard and saw in the session decided that Lisa was Clear and had her given an R-Factor and put on the CCRD. If it's true then it's gross eval by any CS standards. I can understand the Indies viewing this as the cause of her breakdown as it would have been a wrong indication and caused out-listing which has some nasty consequences all it's own, and every action after that would have just piled on more case upset and caused more problems.

With ya on the glad to be out of that crazy cult, though!!

[Infinite]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if anyone else has thought about this.

It seems to me that Marty is goading DM and the CoS into suing him for defamation. He is being deliberately inflammatory and precise - "David Miscavige killed Lisa McPherson". My guess is he wants to have some sort of "battle" against his old foe.

Scientology would be mad to respond, but then they would have to be mad to go for a gag order on an obviously unenforceable non-disclosure agreement. Nothing would surprise me.

Nah, can't see it from that viewpoint myself. Rathbun's post is, so far as David Miscavige is concerned, best ignored for it serves as "proof" that Rathbun is a nutcase and his protestations don't merit a response of any kind. In fact, the cult's PR is best served by (seemingly) rising above the rantings of an obviously disturbed individual making increasingly crazy statements. I mean, *every* Scilon *knows* Lisa McPherson died of a PE. Also, the fact that the cult doesn't respond provides additional evidence that it is benign, even caring in that it is leaving Rathbun unmolested to howl in the wilderness.

Now, if Rathbun were to tell of the behind-the-scenes machinations he knows of, especially in relation to how the coroner was made to recant her initial report, and more especially with DOX, you might have a point.

[phénix]

I do think that auditing can mess people up, altogether with the scn mindset that goes with it.
I've experienced it.
Look at Jason Beghe's interview, hé says the L's is what messed him up...(L 10or 11 I think)

[Jquepublic]

I do think that auditing can mess people up, altogether with the scn mindset that goes with it.
I've experienced it.
Look at Jason Beghe's interview, hé says the L's is what messed him up...(L 10or 11 I think)

AFAIK Ls are listing actions so I'm not surprised.

I was never damaged by auditing, personally. Even the bazillion sec checks I endured. Unless ofc you consider a complete and total unwillingness to go back in session to be damaged, in which case I am all kinds of fucked up!

[TG1]

I was long gone from Scientology when Lisa was at Flag and don't know most of the particulars of her situation -- so this isn't a comment on her per se. In fact, I only learned about Lisa McPherson and her death two or three years ago by reading online.

But I do think it's possible to drive someone over the edge with auditing -- either because it's designed to drive you over the edge or because it's misapplied repeatedly.

Don't you remember how aggravating it was to receive "bad auditing" -- particularly when you were paying for the privilege? And you had to pay for and wait for things to get straightened out? Well, I do. And it was not pleasant. And I'm just talking about plain vanilla major actions, not weird stuff like Lisa was going through or reportedly receiving.

However, getting auditing at Flag is not just about getting auditing. When you're a pc at Flag, you're already a prisoner. When you walk in those doors you are entering what is essentially a lockdown compound. You're on their routing form. You have virtually no control over your activities, your location or your schedule. You can't even sit in a different room than where "they" want you to sit. The control others have over you is enormous, and the control you have over yourself is minimal, even nil. And then if you don't perform as "they" expect you to perform, their attempts to control tighten even more.

It actually makes me feel queasy, sitting here thousands of miles away from Flag, imagining ever being in that environment again.

We all must have been a little bit crazy to start with ever to agree to submit to that level of control.

Yuck!

TG1

[Lurker5]

I am glad that Mike and Marty are talking. I hope they keep talking. I don't think Marty understands psychosis, and won't until he empties his mind of all he is holding onto - all the scno tech. That may or may not happen. I hope it does. But he has to keep talking, telling it, his reality . . . And I hope we allow him to do that.

I am listening. To all of you - and him - and Mike - and anyone talking about it.

Keep talking.

[phénix]

I was long gone from Scientology when Lisa was at Flag and don't know most of the particulars of her situation -- so this isn't a comment on her per se. In fact, I only learned about Lisa McPherson and her death two or three years ago by reading online.

But I do think it's possible to drive someone over the edge with auditing -- either because it's designed to drive you over the edge or because it's misapplied repeatedly.

Don't you remember how aggravating it was to receive "bad auditing" -- particularly when you were paying for the privilege? And you had to pay for and wait for things to get straightened out? Well, I do. And it was not pleasant. And I'm just
talking about plain vanilla major actions, not weird stuff like Lisa was going through
or reportedly receiving.

However, getting auditing at Flag is not just about getting auditing. When you're a
pc at Flag, you're already a prisoner. When you walk in those doors you are entering what is essentially a lockdown compound. You're on their routing form. You have virtually no control over your activities, your location or your schedule. You can't even sit in a different room than where "they" want you to sit. The control others have over you is enormous, and the control you have over yourself is
minimal, even nil. And then if you don't perform as "they" expect you to perform,
their attempts to control tighten even more.

It actually makes me feel queasy, sitting here thousands of miles away from Flag, imagining ever being in that environment again.

We all must have been a little bit crazy to start with ever to agree to submit to that
level of control.

Yuck!

TG1

I don't agree when you say that auditing has to be misapplied in order to mess someone up...that would mean scn works when well-applied (KSW shit)...

[Infinite]

Can auditing drive someone insane? I think so. It sounds like Lisa was doing fine in life and then the "services" at Fraud Land Base drove her to a "break". So, if that happens, the Fraud Land Base OFFLOADS you?

There was a guy that was on his OT Levels, Greg Bashie went to Flag, he suffered a bad break down and committed suicide because they OFFLOADED him. I think this happened in 2000 +/-.

Since McPherson's murder by Miscabbage, Fraud Land Base makes a person sign all sorts of releases - in case FRAUD LAND BASE's auditor mess up???? Or in Lisa's case - her C/S, David Mismanagement! RTC says it has nothing to do with the Churches - why is Dwarf Miscarriage C/Sing all of a sudden? Did anyone question this? Marty - did he think this was off policy??

Another oddity - you get auditing, the auditor messes it up - you go home, you need a repair and YOU have to pay to go back, pay to get repaired?? What is the reasoning behind this except FRAUD??? And people do it and act as if that is okay???

Glad to be OUT of that crazy CULT!

I agree, auditing can drive a person insane. The result of the practise is to extract huge amounts of cash by distracting a person from the fraud so thoroughly that they end up sitting alone huddled over a re-boxed 19th century wheatstone bridge speaking to the spiritual debris of aliens brought to Earth by galactic rulah Xenu 75 million years ago and then blown up in volcanoes that didn't even exist at that time. Even before a person commences their OT levels, there are hours and hours and hours spent in an hypnotic-like trance state manufacturing make-believe stories about past lives which are reinforced by the auditor (even if they know they aren't true) and kept "locked-in" by strictly enforced policy on not being able to discuss these things with anyone - not even family and loved ones. A perfectly rational, intelligent yet vulnerable person quickly learns to obey without question starting with the TRs, and is gradually inculcated with all manner of nonsense until their cognitive functioning is replaced with Scientology automatism. Its even worse for staff. Most people don't get that far down the track but for the ardent believers, like Lisa, they are already half-way to insanity before they get to "Clear". It doesn't take much to push someone off the edge when they are in that state. Fortunately, for those that survive, its only temporary and begins to dwindle once they escape.

I think of it as being akin to, say, a heroin addiction. There are some majorly enjoyable times leading up to that barely indistinguishable moment when dabbling turns to addiction. Once that line is crossed, old friends (and often family) have been replaced and the previous life has become subsumed into an apparently endless quest to get the next buzz. Its not until the addict comes to their senses (or finds a replacement) in their own good time that recovery can commence. Some people can actually function quite well with the addiction provided they have the resources. For the less fortunate, its often not actually the drug which kills them, its the lifestyle. Living with fellow addicts and drug dealers on a day-to-day basis is dangerous. An addict can never be sure they're getting "the good stuff". When you are ripped off and/or when "shit happens", as it inevitably does when in that milieu, the consequences can be severe. There's no one to turn to unless you want to go clean. Even if you do want to go clean, there are always those around you who will drag you back in. Or just kill you.