HELP! I want to help some SEA ORG friend get out? Need advice!

[Freeminds]

Talking about leisure-related things can get through where an out-and-out attack on LRH will do nothing but send them scurrying back into the clutches of the cult. No 'drill' or 'tech' is required... just talk about how you enjoyed the sunshine at the weekend, working in the garden. How your grandchildren are learning new things all the time... maybe recommend a favourite recipe and offer them a chance to come and try it.

None of this is particularly confrontational, or at least it needn't cause a conflict between you and the person you're hoping to get through to. What you're doing is giving them a glimpse of life on the outside: people caught up in Scientology servitude never have enough time to cook really good food or to see their loved ones; and they never have enough money either.

Every time you natter about a book you just read, or a concert you went to, etc., you're subtly reminding them of all the things they have given up, in favour of endless recruitment, fundraising and so on. You're showing them that the 'trouble source' in their life is Scientology.

Sooner or later, the only other thing you'll need to do is let them know that you have a spare room where they can stay for a week or two, until they make new plans, and begin a new life as an 'ex'.

[Balthasar]

I have some friends that have no clue I am out. We communicate quite frequently on email but I know the emails are monitored so, as far as they know, I go to all events, donate tons of money to the cause, am on course everyday and am on my next step on the BRIDGE to Total DEATH! Oh, I love Lafatty Hub Turd and David Miscarriage/Mismanagement, Mistake, Miscabbage!

When they call me from their cell phone, is there anything I can say to them that will give them a sense of safety if they ever want to leave? Like..I can fly them anywhere in the world, help them find jobs etc. Is the conversation taped if it is a Sea Org phone?

Look Idle Morgue, if you continue to communicate to them how much you are happy about events, tech, Hubbard, Miscavige, bridge and donations, you might be KEEPING THEM IN still a bit longer. They would not want to disappoint you by throwing the towel just now when you are so winning.

Having said that, I also believe that realisation must come from within the person.

When I was about to join the SO I listened to nobody. A well meaning friend was even removing and hiding my luggage which I had packed for my leave to the SO. So I went without luggage – hey real OTs don't need luggage .

What made me subsequently change my mind and leave were fundamental disagreements. Those came about when I occupied a new post where I had suddenly access to confidential GO files and other stuff. It was just on continental level mainly reports on people. But I'd seen enough. That moment I was done with SO. You see, I had to realise it myself first.

That was long ago.

Sure enough, what helped me a lot when I left was the certainty that I had still a nice bank account waiting for me to sweeten my depart.

So what can you do?

Maybe when they call you next time tell them that they can count on you financially whenever they need your help.
Although there is the possibility that even your cell phone conversation is listened into by another person (loudspeaker, earbuds, recording....), that's the only way to let them now. Make sure they know your address so they can find you.

Done all that, next conversation on the phone I wouldn't mince words anymore.
What for?

I think people appreciate honesty and deep down they'd know what you say is truth.

[johnAnchovie]

Latest I heard (fellow who just contacted me) was that things have deteriorated so much, that many want to get out but feel thay can't. That 'security' that is invasive inspections of staff and public lives has terrified on lines scientologists to the degree that they don't know who to trust, they will not be honest with each other due fear of the dreaded KR, and then that means being dragged through expensive sec checks for public and god only knows for staff and SO.

You need to let them know somehow that you are out and will help them, but what that is going to involve is beyond me.

[Freeminds]

If you can put a cheap pay-as-you-go SIM card in an old mobile phone (and charger) that you don't need back, that might be a very welcome gadget for some fence-sitting Sea Org victim. (I remember what Jenna Miscavige-Hill said about having an illicit phone.) It could save a person a lot of months as a prisoner, if they're able to summon help when they decide that enough is enough.

If they think a 'phone is too risky a thing to take back to their berth, how about a stack of postcards and a book of stamps? You could agree that if you don't get a message saying that all is well, every couple of months, you'll assume that they are now being held against their will, and send in the law enforcement officials. They could even report that at their next sec check: nothing to hide, nothing to fear, right? But soon after they start detaining people with no contact with the outside world... the outside world comes looking for them. No horseshit about Shelley Miscavige being "on a religious retreat" this time.

I think every Scientology victim needs a friend like you on the outside... just in case.

[StickbyMe]

I just had an idea, what about giving them an inexpensive tablet to play with? For $100 you could get something that would allow them to browse the internet without fear of getting caught. And if this site was bookmarked...

[Stat]

Buy them a bus/plane ticket, few days/weeks ahead of time, to your/their family place, with a short note attached,
hide it in a box of condoms or tampons and mail it to them with some other simple items,
like socks, some candies perhaps. Good luck!

P.S. Make sure to meet him/her at the bus terminal/airport with another friends/family,
in case "the blow drill" will be utilized and ronbots will try to "handle" your friend on arrival.

[GoNuclear]

Well you've asked a $64000 question to which there really is not one answer, IMO. Most Sea Org staff are miserable at being there but it is I believe so heavily suppressed they may not even know it, and even if they do acknowledge how they feel about being there their sense of duty will override those feelings, in other words, we will die in this effort to save mankind. And they are unlikely to act upon a direct suggestion they should leave.

A genuine offer of help should they ever need it from you will reach them, this must be said in such a way that does not show your agenda, stifle the urge to just yell at them to get the fuck out. Do not suggest they should leave as such as it will red flag you as someone with counter intention and they may disconnect the line of communication you have with them.

Remember when one joins the SO it is not done on a whim and most who signed up have sacrificed almost everything to do so, and most are not that good at being that wrong that they will leave easily then if it is not what they expected.

This is IMO the mindset of an SO member. I was one.

I disagree with you on the point of the mindset of those joining ... there is such a thing as a stat push within the Sea Org, and, I have personal knowledge of them recruiting people who were in desperate financial straits who would sign up just to be fed. You would think that, considering that the Sea Org is supposed to be a lifetime deal, as in life without the possibility of parole ... the recruiters would choose carefully and have a rigorous screening process. They would, if it wasn't all a phuggen scam. But with stat push, the game can easily become one of throwing enough spagetti against the wall to see if a few pieces stick. Tell the prospective sea ogre anything, and, when he finds out the reality of sea ogre life, he is someone elses problem anyways, and you haven't been RPF'd this week.

Sometime back I posted on here a rather lengthy story about my homeless days in Los Angeles and having a friend who disappeared for a month who was recruited by the sea org, and came back with all manner of tales of woe to tell about how upgaphugged the Sea Org was. He was recruited right off the street. That was back in late 1983/early 1984.

As for getting someone out ... the best way is on the determinism of the sea org. How to do that without getting on the bad side of your friend? Manufacture some evidence that the fellow you want out is a government plant, was on LSD, or was in the care of a head shrinker for years. Make sure you get it to someone who sees your friend as a threat or a rival.

Pete

[phénix]

I disagree with you on the point of the mindset of those joining ... there is such a thing as a stat push within the Sea Org, and, I have personal knowledge of them recruiting people who were in desperate financial straits who would sign up just to be fed. You would think that, considering that the Sea Org is supposed to be a lifetime deal, as in life without the possibility of parole ... the recruiters would choose carefully and have a rigorous screening process. They would, if it wasn't all a phuggen scam. But with stat push, the game can easily become one of throwing enough spagetti against the wall to see if a few pieces stick. Tell the prospective sea ogre anything, and, when he finds out the reality of sea ogre life, he is someone elses problem anyways, and you haven't been RPF'd this week.

Sometime back I posted on here a rather lengthy story about my homeless days in
Los Angeles and having a friend who disappeared for a month who was recruited by the sea org, and came back with all manner of tales of woe to tell about how
upgaphugged the Sea Org was. He was recruited right off the street. That was back in late 1983/early 1984.

As for getting someone out ... the best way is on the determinism of the sea org.
How to do that without getting on the bad side of your friend? Manufacture some evidence that the fellow you want out is a government plant, was on LSD, or was in
the care of a head shrinker for years. Make sure you get it to someone who sees your friend as a threat or a rival.

Pete

Yep, you're right, the recruitment push...
It's actually one of the things I really condemn with Scn...they get children or "green scnientologists" to sign SO contracts. That's so fucked up!!
They started recruiting me while I was on the purif,at some point the SORO and another guy would wait for me every evening after the purif and fucking try and recruit me. I was something like one or two weeks "in"...they came to my house and woke me up before 2pm on a thursday and told me to pack my bag to go and join....

And once you're in, specially after the EPF, you don't realize what you'll go through to get out...

[Claire Swazey]

A lot of people stop having ANY interest in Scn concepts and all that stuff once they leave, if they leave. But they may not know that they'd make that choice when they are immersed in it.

It's really hard to tell.

So I would guess that maybe, instead of an approach telling them how wrong their beliefs are (I'm not saying you were doing this or wanted to do this)- that maybe an approach telling them about abuses- really widespread abuses that maybe would strike a chord with them as something that they'd witnessed or experienced- would be a way to go.

[still here]

Hello IM

I think that most SO members - once there doing it - have doubts and fears. They of course cannot speak to anyone about these - but they are there none the less..
in all the forms mentioned above.
I don't think you need to tell them horror stories or imply you have read loads of stuff etc. This is too much to swallow - until they are ready.
They probably have their own (no SO member doesn't)

I am a real believer in honesty.
It is hard to admit you have been wrong, foolish or are now trapped - even to yourself, and SO staff usually have to travel that road.

My advice would be to risk all - and be honest.

Tell your friend (whether listened in to or not) that you are out, and doing well. That you will ALWAYS be there should they need you - now, or in the future to assist them to leave or support them when they do.

They then have the choice - to report you and disconnect (if they are truly in and have NO desire to get out) or to be very grateful and far more secure in the knowledge that you will be there - a true friend, no matter what and no matter when.
This is tough love - but I think the only way. I would have been delighted if someone - or anyone had offered me that - then one day they did and I made my escape....