Skirmish over YT video of Mike Rinder black PRing Gerry Armstrong and Graham Berry

[german penguin]

Markus Thoess says:
June 17, 2012 at 3:33 pm
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Gerry,

I can not believe how much time you have !

This is really stupid.

You should have asked me B E F O R E you put MY NAME in the Internet for your benefit !

I do so others do so .

There will be another OSA Film soon containing more countries.

After all this, I have removed all Material of you in this Film.

You did very great in destroying my contacts to other people.
Neither Mike Rinder nor Marty Rathbun are having anything to do with my current project.

I am not a Scientology Critic. I am a Filmmaker. STOP Involving me in the WAR between Critics that work with this TOPIC since 20 years.


Good luck with your private WAR. This War for you seems to be more important than anything else in your life.

Very, Very poor.

Think of the family of this dead woman who did want to learn the truth.



OSA will thank you for what you have done.

Berlin, 17.6.2012
Markus Thoess

[Veda]

-snip-

After all this, I have removed all Material of you in this Film.

You did very great in destroying my contacts to other people.
Neither Mike Rinder nor Marty Rathbun are having anything to do with my current project.

-snip-

Berlin, 17.6.2012
Markus Thoess

What a B.S. response. This person has been coached ("talked to"). It appears as though removing Gerry Armstrong from the film was a condition for the further participation of Rathbun&Rinder. I wouldn't be surprised if they decide not to participate anyway, as my impression is that Rinder didn't much trust or like Thoess. Rathbun&Rinder may be simply "jerking his chain."

[Mark A. Baker]

Markus Thoess says:
June 17, 2012 at 3:33 pm
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Gerry,

I can not believe how much time you have !

This is really stupid.

You should have asked me B E F O R E you put MY NAME in the Internet for your benefit !

I do so others do so .

There will be another OSA Film soon containing more countries.

After all this, I have removed all Material of you in this Film.

You did very great in destroying my contacts to other people.
Neither Mike Rinder nor Marty Rathbun are having anything to do with my current project.

I am not a Scientology Critic. I am a Filmmaker. STOP Involving me in the WAR between Critics that work with this TOPIC since 20 years.


Good luck with your private WAR. This War for you seems to be more important than anything else in your life.

Very, Very poor.

Think of the family of this dead woman who did want to learn the truth.



OSA will thank you for what you have done.

Berlin, 17.6.2012
Markus Thoess

Actually this guy makes some very good points that it would do well for a few of the more strident critics to consider.

First, arguably the vast majority of people on the planet are not terribly interested in waging a war against scientology. An attitude which requires 'you are either with us or against us' is no more attractive coming from a critic of scientology than it is coming from a member in good standing of the church. There is in fact no difference between such appeals except the justifications used by the individuals involved.

Crusaders always believe their cause is holy, unbelievers are infidels, and such must either be converted or else they lie beyond hope of redemption. Same piffle, different causes.

Second, information is not inherently polemical. In fact those sources serve best which simply present the available information without resorting to emotional suasion. Attempting to coopt information sources as a propaganda channel for private wars simply alienates those who are not naturally opposed. They quite rightly see their efforts thus being diverted to serve some purpose extraneous to their own. That is not a way to win friends or influence people. At least not in a 'positive' way.

When offering information to an independent source it is best to offer simple facts without including stridently partisan material and don't boast about how they are being used to 'get the word out'. Of course, all that is simply good manners.


Mark A. Baker

[Veda]

Actually

-snip-

I assume you read the relevant background material, so I can only surmise, since you are not a stupid person, that you are being dishonest.

Perhaps Caroline will post again on this thread and further clarify matters.

I, for one, have no interest in arguing with you.

[Gadfly]

First, arguably the vast majority of people on the planet are not terribly interested in waging a war against scientology.

Mark A. Baker

Well, I would have to say that MOST people, if given honest and accurate information about the Church of Scientology, would feel some distaste and disgust at how it does what it does, while lying and deceiving at every step along the way.

"War against scientology". What does that even mean? The subject of Scientology? A local church of Scientology? A book about Scientology? A staff member at some mission of Scientology?

There is no such thing as "scientology" without some qualifier - at least not as anything other than some VERY vague abstract IDEA.

Point to "scientology". It can't be done because there is no such thing. Not outside the imagination of some person's mind.

Without some sort of a qualifier, it does not exist in the physical universe! Not anywhere.

Just as you cannot point to a "christianity". It is a horrendously ABSTRACT idea, doesn't actually exist anywhere "out there", and people who talk and wallow in these lofty mental high-level generalizations are victims of their own "think".

There might be a "member" of some branch of Christianity. Or a ritual of Christianity. Or, a child born into some version of Christianity. But, the word "Christianity" is always and only a mental creation - an abstract idea.

The same with "scientology".

Now Hubbard tried to define and make "scientology" exist as somethig other than an abstract idea, but that was ONLY trickery.

From Wikipedia on Abstraction:

"Thinking in abstractions is considered to be one of the key traits in modern human behaviour, which is believed to have developed between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago, probably before the modern human exodus from Africa. Its development is likely to have been closely connected with the development of human language, which (whether spoken or written) appears to both involve and facilitate abstract thinking."

"In philosophical terminology, abstraction is the thought process wherein ideas[3] are distanced from objects."

"Abstraction is a process by which higher concepts are derived from the usage and classification of literal ("real" or "concrete") concepts, first principles, or other methods. "An abstraction" is the product of this process – a concept that acts as a super-categorical noun for all subordinate concepts, and connects any related concepts as a group, field, or category.

"Abstractions may be formed by reducing the information content of a concept or an observable phenomenon, typically to retain only information which is relevant for a particular purpose. For example, abstracting a leather soccer ball to the more general idea of a ball retains only the information on general ball attributes and behavior, eliminating the other characteristics of that particular ball."

[Panda Termint]

I think the war being referred to is that amongst critics.
Markus makes a valid point, IMO.

[TG1]

Sometimes I think people here would rather fight with each other than with the cult. After years of pissing on each other, you know each other so well. You have grown to hate/love each other more than anything else in your lives.

This is not the way to live. It is not the way to survive a cult experience. You are embracing the cult within your tombs and hiding from life.

You will not type your way to freedom or happiness. Get out of here and do something with your lives. Grow vegetables. Get a pet. Climb a hill. Say hello to someone.

Leave.

TG1

[Veda]

I think the war being referred to is that amongst critics.
Markus makes a valid point, IMO.

I'm sorry to say that Markus is being played like a cheap harmonica by the outside the CofS Scientologists, and by those under their sway.

[Veda]

Sometimes I think people here would rather fight

-snip-

TG1

That's not it at all. Unfortunately you don't understand.

[Caroline]

I alerted Gerry about both your post to ESMB, and your comment on Gerry's blog. Obviously your communications at this point in this matter are very important, and are being analyzed publicly. So even little changes between versions of communications are worthy of notice and discussion, and have a place in the record. Gerry will respond to the ESMB post, because it is the more complete of the two versions.

Markus Thoess says:
June 17, 2012 at 3:33 pm
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Gerry,

I can not believe how much time you have !

This is really stupid.

You should have asked me B E F O R E you put MY NAME in the Internet for your benefit !

I do so others do so .

There will be another OSA Film soon containing more countries.

After all this, I have removed all Material of you in this Film.

You did very great in destroying my contacts to other people.
Neither Mike Rinder nor Marty Rathbun are having anything to do with my current project.

I am not a Scientology Critic. I am a Filmmaker. STOP Involving me in the WAR between Critics that work with this TOPIC since 20 years.


Good luck with your private WAR. This War for you seems to be more important than anything else in your life.

Very, Very poor.

Think of the family of this dead woman who did want to learn the truth.

OSA will thank you for what you have done.

Berlin, 17.6.2012
Markus Thoess

Please moderate: "Declaration of Gerry Armstrong re: Markus Thoess's copyright infringement claim"

A new comment on the post "Declaration of Gerry Armstrong re: Markus Thoess's copyright infringement claim" is waiting for your approval http://www.gerryarmstrong.ca/archives/312

Gerry,

I can not believe how much time you have !

This is really stupid.

You should have asked me B E F O R E you put MY NAME in the Internet for your benefit !

There will be another OSA Film soon containing more countries.

After all this, I have removed all Material of you in this Film.

You did very great in destroying my contacts to other people.
Neither Mike Rinder nor Marty Rathbun are having anything to do with my current project.

Good luck with your private WAR. This War for you seems to be more important than anything else in your life.
Very, Very poor.

OSA will thank you for what you have done.


Berlin, 17.6.2012
Markus Thoess

I want to respond too.

Contrary to the double curve that you have embraced and are forwarding, Gerry really does have other things that are more important in life, even than defending himself against fair game, which is what this is all about.

A double curve is like when the Scientologists kill Lisa McPherson, destroy evidence, and then sue Lisa's family. Here, they killed Biggi Reichert, hurt the family, plus used that fact to fair game Gerry.

Anyone should be respectful of Gerry's defense in this matter. His articulate, reasoned, accurate, well-supported sworn testimony, that any attorney getting involved in a copyright infringement case, or perhaps some other kind of case, would be glad to get, not only does not deserve your comment, but you black PR Gerry for that astonishing product, and judge it very, very poor.

It frightens me when I see such double curving. I feel shocked and threatened by it.

Anyway, I'm sure Gerry will answer as soon as possible.