I'm predjudice.

[Claire Swazey]

Aw, there are a few posters here that fit the bill of an arrogant asshole claiming to have left the building but - in reality - they are in the mind fuck of a devotee.

That ain't going to be changed by anybody but the person themself. So what ? There are many many fine people here - and elsewhere - to enjoy the company of.

Let's party !

I think not having a membership in CofS and not contributing to this organization counts for much.

[Smilla]

Not always and not exactly. There's a wide range of beliefs amongst Indies and FZers. They do a lot of cherry picking. I was far from the only one who did that.

Much of what gets deleted/ditched are policy stuff- RPFing, routing forms to get out, freeloader debts, enforced disconnection, that sort of thing. Last I noticed, those things were considered a rather big deal and were major topics of criticism re Hubbardism.

That's a very nice hat you're wearing.

[Claire Swazey]

Tick one box. If you tick more than one box, your choice in invalid. If you tick less than two boxes, your choice is invalid. If you tick none, you are invalid.

1. The previous post was stupid ( )

2. That's a nice hat you're wearing. ( )

You forgot choice #3.

Blow me.

Actually, I think a person would have to be incredibly stupid or ignorant (or both) to say CofS and the Indie scene were exactly the same or mostly the same.

There's plenty to criticize in non CofS Scn, but including things that aren't the case, disregarding the sorts of things I described then calling that stupid- is willfully ignorant and will only serve to make that person look like a moron.

HTH.

[Smilla]

You forgot choice #3.

Blow me.

Actually, I think a person would have to be incredibly stupid or ignorant (or both) to say CofS and the Indie scene were exactly the same or mostly the same.

There's plenty to criticize in non CofS Scn, but including things that aren't the case, disregarding the sorts of things I described then calling that stupid- is willfully ignorant and will only serve to make that person look like a moron.

HTH.

Unfortunately your choice is invalid.*

*But I still like your hat.

[Gadfly]

Why do you two go at each other?

I really don't get it.

I mean, Smilla, your recent posts on this thread ARE funny. The two choices above between "the above post is stupid" and "that's a nice hat. . . " had me falling off my chair. But, to me, the humor was sort of misdirected.

Claire more than recognizes the many lunacies of Scientology. She is NOT a defender of all things Scientology. It IS true the the great majority of the abuses have a DIRECT link to behaviors of the organized official Church of Scientology.

Yes, the abusive behaviors ARE based on the strict application of certain Scentology ideas, BUT not all people "out there" choose to accept some of those ideas and also choose NOT to apply them. There really is a difference, and it is NOT minor. I am GLAD for the difference.

Claire is tolerant of the views of others, as long as they don't hurt anybody (including some or many people who practice some limited version of Scientology while totally disconnected from the Church organization).

It really ISN'T all "black or white".

And, I side with tolerance - as long as the "they" are not hurting anybody.

It is true that people who leave the Scientology organization often still carry around a great many nutty ideas. But, so do my Baptist neighbors, and they don't hurt anybody, and they are happy to help when I need something. I DON'T care when certain people accept and believe STUPID SHIT, because MANY people do that on Earth, and again, as long as they are NOT hurting anybody along the way, I give them a break. Ideas and actions are two separate things, and while often related, it is a good idea to keep that in mind.

Now, Marty and his gang of close followers are something else. There seems to be some agenda there, and it rubs me very much the wrong way.

But all "indies" are not "Marty Indies".

Differentiate. It is good for the human conceptual thinking processes.

[Claire Swazey]

Unfortunately your choice is invalid.*

*But I still like your hat.

Looks valid to me, and I call the shots on whatever choices I make.

[HelluvaHoax!]

Tick one box. If you tick more than one box, your choice in invalid. If you tick less than two boxes, your choice is invalid. If you tick none, you are invalid.

1. The previous post was stupid ( )

2. That's a nice hat you're wearing. ( )

...

Tick one box. If you tick more than one box, your choice in invalid. If you tick less than two boxes, your choice is invalid. If you tick none, you are invalid.

1. The previous post was stupid ( )

2. That's a nice hat you're wearing. ( )

3. There's one box above I'd like to tick but
when I think about doing that I get a nervous tick. (X)

[I told you I was trouble]

But all "indies" are not "Marty Indies".

Differentiate. It is good for the human conceptual thinking processes.

But, but ... where is the fun in that Gaddy?



I'm ever so sorry but, for me, actually being a scientologist involved quite enough madness for one lifetime and now that I'm free I'm not going to waste my time trying to differentiate between levels of insanity with the bloody Indies!

Every last one of them is a BT hunting, tubs loving nutter (well, apart from a couple).

[Lucretia]

When's the last time you saw a churchie picketing or protesting? Lots of Indies are doing that.

When's the last time you saw a churchie doing their own thing, blowing off class, mixing methods? Indies do it all the time.

Have we somehow missed the high prices, inward facing spikes, freeloader debts and RPF camps in the Free Zone, hmmm?

Maybe they disconnected from you because of your attitude. You feel sorry for them. Although they don't do about 99% of the shit DM does, you feel they're the same. Can you really expect everyone to want to be around someone who opines thus? I mean, I have no problem with associating with whomever, but there are times when, I will eventually cut someone loose if I just can't ever enjoy their company or feel I could trust them.

Your post is imprecise. You could have said you thought there was a similar mindset, or you don't like Hubbard's ideas, find them limiting, think it's a problem if someone's still interested.

But instead, you've written commentary that seems to state that you think they're the same. Even though they have no staff contracts, freeloader debts, high prices, RPF, centralization, murders, isolation watches. Why not criticize people for what they're actually doing rather than imply they do things they don't do?

I wonder what you'll do next time you picket and a Freezoner shows up. Happens all the time. Would that create a sense of cognitive dissonance?

Jeez, are you this nice to everyone Claire?

What annoys me more than anything on this board is ex's thinking they are somehow superior to the guys who are still in the thrall of the mind fuck. Maybe I didn't make myself clear. All ex's were doing what current $cns think is the correct way to be. I don't think any one is evil. I do think the tech is evil. And I don't think you can cherry pick it, which the indies seem to believe they can do. How can you say the the MWH tech is OK but the admin tech is a load of crock, or the ARC triangle is gods gift to mankind but disconnection is antisocial. It all came from the same twisted mind. It all serves the same warped purpose, and that is purely and simply to control minds. Saying some of it is OK is like trying to pull chocolate chips out of dog shit. You may get the chocolate chip, but it's still covered in dog shit and indies are still wallowing in dog shit.

I assume you have read the Milgram experiments

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

It is very illuminating. It proves, in a nut shell, that anybody, given a "good" enough reason will inflict life threatening electric shocks to another person for their own good. Apply this to the way the cult ran our lives. We are not unusual or special or anything - we just happened to get hooked and we thought we were doing the right thing. Even poor Jan Eastgate, who I know, and who I think is a decent human being. As I have said in another post, $cn makes monsters out of anybody and everybody. It is evil.

And for your information, I was not sympathetic to my indie ex-friend. Far from it. In fact I am not sympathetic to any of them, but I do feel some compassion for them, having been in the same situation myself.

If that's cognitive dissonance, whatever the hell that is, then I revel in it.

And by the way, if the indies are out protesting against the current $cn set up, it is only because they want to replace one mind fuck with another. The day this planet is free of every molecule of the Hubturds crap..well it can't come too soon for me.

[degraded being]

You forgot choice #3.

Blow me.

Actually, I think a person would have to be incredibly stupid or ignorant (or both) to say CofS and the Indie scene were exactly the same or mostly the same.

There's plenty to criticize in non CofS Scn, but including things that aren't the case, disregarding the sorts of things I described then calling that stupid- is willfully ignorant and will only serve to make that person look like a moron.

HTH.

Yes but are you being precise enough Claire?
Will it really make that person look like a moron? When was the last time you looked at some morons? Were they all the same? If so, then you are half way there, but even morons have different gender, hairstyles, clothes etc, even if they did, hypothetically resemble each other in facial features etc. There are many different looks in the moron subset, so if someone was said to look like a moron, you'd have to say which one. This is fair and objective and rational. Just as you constantly ask for fairness for indies with your lifetime mission of lecturing clumsy complainers on the minutiae of differences between individual indie-scientologists (I hope that is an allowable term) and the differences between indies and COS scientologists. So. all I'm sayin' is morons is different and it behooves you to do the fair thing and be precise by not implying that "a" moron is a constant. That just ain't right honey.