Darius Wilhere now out of the Sea Org & remarried....

[Lulu Belle]

And I would have to say too that IMO Sandy is not evil. We've all done evil things. But my personal experience with Sandy, over years, is that she was full of kindness and compassion.

Yeah. She was a C/S at AOLA and she was wonderful. Not evil or mean at all.

Interesting the way one person could be so different at different times in different places.

That's the Sea Org for you.

[lkwdblds]

Lakey, what you describe above in the first two paragraphs is just SO INSANE. I ran into similar things, and I was often left in utter disbelief about how some of these Sea Org members behaved so idiotically, and that people could be so amazingly STUPID. And, of course, there was NO way of "talking to them". It was push -push - push. "Get your product NOW" - or else! The "stat push" gone totally insane - THAT describes the Sea Org and INT Management.

I remember reading Hubbard's data on hatting. The various ideas of being able to handle the necessary cycles of action for a post, by learning them and practicing them on course, made total sense to me. Hubbard had whole sections of the Org Board devoted to getting staff trained and hatted.

And, also, he had the Sea Org training materials that tell you that you are "elite", that you "don't need to have before you can do", that you have already done EVERY job in existence in your past lives, and that you are simply expected to "DO IT RIGHT" AND "get the job done".

I never took the second part seriously. I can understand being "determined", being "set on a course of action", of "going A to B", and being very demanding, BUT, Lakey, WHO THE FUCK CAN EVALUATE WITHOUT AT LEAST CAREFULLY STUDYING THE DATA SERIES POLICIES?

And, to make matters worse, the Data Series is put together in a very strange way. The Data Series as some sort of "tech of figuring out actual causes and solving them" is BULLSHIT! Really, it can't be consistently applied with excellent results by ANYBODY.

To me, what you saw as evil, I just see as VERY STUPID!

You get these semi-intelligent people, who walk around and BARK, "start"! As if the magic "intention" will glow everything right - despite and regardless of the actual state of affairs. What she had was a very strange and distorted understanding of Hubbard, but also, what she was starting with (Hubbard's ideas) were already strange and distorted!

To take Hubbard's idea that "you can do any job", and RAISE it above all other considerations and realities, and to render "training" non-existent, was INSANE!

What I always noticed was that there was just SO MUCH BRUTAL FORCE AND PRESSURE COMING DOWN THE LINES, with constant product officering and DEMAND, that most staff were constantly handling emergencies, flaps, Hill 10s, and "urgent situations that had to be handled yesterday".

I suspect that the incessant FRANTIC "push for products" is as "unreasonable" as ever.

To me it was the REAL "why". The answer to, "why is the Sea Org and Scientology so damned insane so much of the time"?

I hope that if people do "come back", if the personality somehow manages to survive, and if the "past" lingers along into the future in the form if ones "karma", I hope that "Sandy" learns from her past experiences and begins to grasp the words compassion and tolerance (as senior values when compared to whatever SHE previously considered of primary value).

I mean really, how dumb would somebody have to be? To keep dropping his or her body, to keep coming back, and to keep CHOOSING Scientology AGAIN (and again)!!!!!!! To go through all that crap, to experience so much nonsense, and to then choose it again from all the many other interesting and worthwhile options on Earth.

Maybe there is some form of "thetan natural selection". The thetans with such crazy traits as you described above will hopefully, eventually, find themselves "extinct". Or, at least they will move on and evolve OUT of such idiotic behaviors. I mean, such behaviors cannot actually be "conducive to bettered survival" (from the viewpoint of a typical "evolutionary model").

We can only hope . . . . . .

Of course, without Scientology there to bring out the (already existing) lunacy from certain people, the problem would largely not exist. But, I suspect that these sorts of people already have the nuttiness "in them" (somewhere, deep inside). Scientology just sees to resonate with certain types of people. Certain people are attracted to and stay with Scientology. With some, contact with Scientology really triggers and activates the "sleeping monster inside", and involvement with the higher levels of Scientology very much encourages them to REALLY "let it all out".

Very interesting comments, Gadfly. I agree with every point you make but don't agree with your final conclusions. I condensed my post which you quoted down from the full story told on the Apollo '73 thread. There is much that I left unsaid which might clarify what I'm attempting to say. I'll cover a few points below in an effort to clarify things.

SANDY'S DEATH - This was definitely reported on ESMB or some other Scn site in 2010 or 2011. The proof is that I went from hating Sandy to letting the hate dissolve when I found out about it. If it was just faulty memory, I never would have given up my hate. I just Googled Sandy's Death and absolutely nothing came up. The only explanation I can come up with is that someone put up false data so as to get me to stop bashing Sandy's character and when I agreed to let go of my hate towards her and not discuss her anymore, they then erased the data. This is very unlikely but the best I could come up with. I still think she's dead but admit I now have no proof.

HAT WRITE UPS - There is a specific format for Hat Write Ups for each post, Hat Write Ups with sections A to J, . Each section concerns a different topic such as Purpose of the Post, Product of the Post, Ideal Scene of the Post, the post's Stat, the duties of the post, etc. The one element which I thought was the most important had to do with the flow lines. You had to make a drawing, putting a circle representing the post in the center of a sheet of paper, and then putting smaller circles on the paper showing all the posts which inflow into your post and all the posts which your post outflows to. These are represented as arrows, either pointing in towards your post or pointing out from your post. THERE WERE WAS NO HAT WRITE UP A-J IN THE FLAG BUREAUX IN 1973 FOR MY POST. Also, I am guessing that no other post there had a Hat write but am not sure.

SANDY WAS OVERLOADED Sandy was holding down 6 Programs Chief Jobs at one time. She was doing the Evals for ASHO Day and ASHO Foundation, L.A. Org Day and L.A. Org Foundation, CCLA and the Ships Orgs, the Excalibur and Bolivar. LRH did an eval himself to reduce Sandy's workload. Five new Programs Chiefs were assigned directly by LRH one day after I arrived at the Apollo. I came from CCLA and so was appointed to be CCLA Programs Chief. Four other appointments were made and Sandy was left with ASHO day org only. The only other person I knew was Hank Billings, an older guy 21 years older than me who was made Ship's Programs Chief. Sandy had to turn over 5 of her hats to other people. She had no hat write ups for any of those posts.

THE DATA EVALUATORS COURSE - LRH appointed me and 4 others as Senior Data Evaluators, knowing full well that I had not done the Data Evaluator's Course. We were ordered to start the course and route onto the post on the same day. In retrospect, this action of LRH's was insane! As S.O. Staff, we had the option to refuse to accept the post. I should have done that but the thought never even entered my mind. I didn't want to let down "the Gipper" on my second day on the Apollo. I assumed that I would I would obtain a full hat write up - and be broken in gradually by Sandy while I was was studying how to do Eval's on the course. I envisioned no other possible solution but it turned out that I was wrong.

"A Sea Org Member Can do Any Post Assigned" This insane mantra was used to make the Sea Org right and untrained staff members wrong. I used their own insane mantra against them fairly effectively several times. I said to Sandy, "If what you say is true, why aren't brand new people assigned to be Class VIII Auditors and Case Supervisors? I also used this defense at my comm-ev. There is no reasonable answer to this question. With Sandy, she did not let me finish my sentence but instead yelled at the top of her voice over me and threatened to send me to the EPF. At my Committee of Evidence hearing when I used the mantra, the panel judging me paused and just stared at each other like deer whose eyes were caught in a driver's headlights. There was silence for about 4 seconds and then one guy yelled out, "He's just nattering, lets just find him guilty and get this hearing over with."

"The Remark that Sandy was Evil" All S.O. members including myself were demanded to get their products and keep their stats up at all costs. During my stay on the Apollo most staff were able to approach their job with determination and a no nonsense approach, demanding high production and not being reasonable However, Sandy as well as Maria Starkey in Personnel and Sue Anderson, Sandy's senior,came across to me as inhumane monsters.

In the time I was their, I met many of the top staff who treated other staff with respect and regarded them as sentient human beings. Some of those staff were Diana Hubbard Horwich CS 6, Tony Dunleavy a senior executive, Mike Goldstein in finance, Al Boughton the Estates Program Chief, Rich Cohen the Course Superviror, John Braggin a senior executive, MAA Steward Moreau, Wayne Marple, a mid level exec and Medical Officer Jennie. Even Captain Norman Starkey, a ferocious and extremely demanding Captain of the ship did not exude hate when speaking to someone.

Sandy was different. She projected hate, revulsion and disgust when talking to me right from the first second. This was much more than just being a strongly driven S.O. Exec, determined to get her stats up at all costs. She was joined in this behavior my Personnel Officer Maria Starkey and to a lessor extent by Sue Anderson.

I was there, my vivid and certain perception was that Sandy treated me as if I was a piece of garbage. She didn't have to do it, most of the others didn't but she went out of her way to torture and degrade me under the guise of being a good S.O. member. I could care less if people disagree with my interpretation or dislike my post.

I believe that people such as me were brought into the Flag Bureaux as scapegoats to take the fall for the veteran staff already there. As it turned out, just a couple of months after I left, LRH dismantled the entire Bureaux and demoted all the Programs Chiefs and Execs there and assigned them all to doing deck work on the EPF (Estates Project Force). The RPF was started a few months after the Bureaux was dismantled. I don't know if any bureaux staff eventually ended up on the RPF.
Lakey

[lkwdblds]

Yeah. She was a C/S at AOLA and she was wonderful. Not evil or mean at all.

Interesting the way one person could be so different at different times in different places.

That's the Sea Org for you.

Four years later, I went to Flag in Clearwater in Oct 1977 and did L11. While routing out to return home I had to go to Div 6 to be hatted as a Flag FSM. I was told to have a seat and a Div 6 person would be with me in a moment. Sandy entered the room. I nearly froze up I was so shocked. She did not recognize me nor my name. She proceeded to hat me on being a Flag FSM and gave me a pack containing all the materials. She was courteous and did not have a look of hate or disgust anymore. She looked quite distant, with her mind on other things and did not project warmth or enthusiasm but was civil and effective.

As we wrapped things up, I said, "You know, I met you on the Apollo a few years ago." She said, "Did you really, when I first walked in the room, I thought you looked a little familiar." I just let it go at that, just finishing L11, I was on a sort of high and certainly did not want to stir up old hates by jogging Sandy's memory.
Lakey

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

I knew Greg Wilhere rather well at FCDC. He was a very decent guy. Very decent.

I knew Sandy Wilhere later when she came to FCDC. I liked her alot too.

What is so strange is what Scientology does to a person.

Now I can't imagine how the Greg Wilhere I knew can look at himself in the morror.

And Sandy is a tragic figure and her story is probably a common occurence among lifetime Sea Org members and true believers in Hubbard.

Why does this insanity continue?

The Anabaptist Jacques

[LongTimeNoSea]

Darius is out of the SO, has a supermodel gorgeous wife and two children. He is also somewhat enigmatic. He appears to be very much IN, doing video work for COS... But I have had back channel reports for years that he reads the Internet and despises DM. Who knows what he is really thinking. All I know is that if my story read like his does, I would want to bring the cult down, perhaps from the inside.

[Petey C]

....
Sandy was different. She projected hate, revulsion and disgust when talking to me right from the first second. This was much more than just being a strongly driven S.O. Exec, determined to get her stats up at all costs. She was joined in this behavior my Personnel Officer Maria Starkey and to a lessor extent by Sue Anderson.

I was there, my vivid and certain perception was that Sandy treated me as if I was a piece of garbage. She didn't have to do it, most of the others didn't but she went out of her way to torture and degrade me under the guise of being a good S.O. member. I could care less if people disagree with my interpretation or dislike my post.

You're entitled to your opinion and can either hate or love Sandy, it doesn't matter much to me. Like you, I formed my opinion of Sandy based on our relationship and probably won't change my view until I personally witness something she does or says that changes my mind.

I too heard that Sandy died, somewhere back in 2010 or 2011. It just shows we shouldn't believe everything we read on the internet.

[HelluvaHoax!]

I knew Greg Wilhere rather well at FCDC. He was a very decent guy. Very decent.

I knew Sandy Wilhere later when she came to FCDC. I liked her alot too.

What is so strange is what Scientology does to a person.

Now I can't imagine how the Greg Wilhere I knew can look at himself in the morror.

And Sandy is a tragic figure and her story is probably a common occurence among lifetime Sea Org members and true believers in Hubbard.

Why does this insanity continue?

ANSWER: Because Scientologists are "putting order into the physical universe" and all the craziness is simply "confusion blowing off". So when insanity happens it's a good indicator that you are applying the tech correctly and insanity is blowing off. Unless someone above you on the command channel says that it's a bad indicator that you are going insane and then you need to blow the money confusion in your bank account as the next step on your program.

[Smurf]

We all should be very careful about what we post about people on ESMB. Sandy Wilhere is not dead and I know this for a fact. She did apparently have a bad accident some years ago. Whether Darius is or isn't still connected to the SO I don't know, but I do know he's connected to his mother who came to visit him on the east coast around the time of the birth of his second child ... so everyone can join the dots.

There have been rumours that I too had died, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that I have not.

And I would have to say too that IMO Sandy is not evil. We've all done evil things. But my personal experience with Sandy, over years, is that she was full of kindness and compassion.

I've also been told Sandy is still alive & working at PAC. As for her abusive nature, that goes with the territory when working in a highly stressful environment where people are constantly being pushed to the limit.

The COB blows up at his directors, the directors, in turn, blow up on their managers, and because the managers are being yelled at, they turn on their subordinates. It's called human nature.

I've dealt with Nazi types in the church and in corporate life. Mike Rinder could be quite the "Nazi" when his blood boiled as OSA Director.

[lkwdblds]

ANSWER: Because Scientologists are "putting order into the physical universe" and all the craziness is simply "confusion blowing off". So when insanity happens it's a good indicator that you are applying the tech correctly and insanity is blowing off. Unless someone above you on the command channel says that it's a bad indicator that you are going insane and then you need to blow the money confusion in your bank account as the next step on your program.

You make a very good point, Helluva! I knew the data but had never connected the dots. Thanks for pointing this out! There was a saying in the Orgs, "When order comes in, confusion blows off!" Possibly, there is some element of truth in the saying but Scientology Management has misapplied it and expanded it's usage to justify torturing and degrading it's staff and going out exchange with them.
Lakey

[Gadfly]

I've also been told Sandy is still alive & working at PAC. As for her abusive nature, that goes with the territory when working in a highly stressful environment where people are constantly being pushed to the limit.

The COB blows up at his directors, the directors, in turn, blow up on their managers, and because the managers are being yelled at, they turn on their subordinates. It's called human nature.

I've dealt with Nazi types in the church and in corporate life. Mike Rinder could be quite the "Nazi" when his blood boiled as OSA Director.

So very true. I noticed that when a Sea Org member was yelling and screaming at someone, and acting like a total asshole, that you really HAD to see what he or she she was getting in terms of demand, force, make-wrong, and inval from his or her senior!

I never blamed the individual for his or her nutty over-the-top behavior. I blamed the setup and way that the Scientology organization was designed and run by Hubbard.

If you take just about any person and put them in that insane environment, with constant daily, and even HOURLY phone calls and extreme pressure, most will "go the effect" of the lunacy. In Scio terms, being on command channels in the Sea Org is just about the MOST "enturbulating, entheta and PTS" place you could find yourself. And, being directly on GI lines was the absolute worse.

I remember being the FSC INT Admin at the FSO, and Bo Wennberg (FSC INT) had his OWN full-time product officer (Jon Lundeen - FLB Finance Director). Lundeen sat in a chair across from Bo, almost every hour of every day. Lundeen would get calls from INT (Finance Dictator, etc.), sometimes every 15 minutes! The pressure was insane. Bo Wennberg eventually died of untreated diabetes.

Lundeen would be told day after day about some MAJOR INT project that had to be done yesterday, and that the FSO (as the major source of SO reserves) HAD to come up with the funds NOW! The pressure on FSO GI has always been insane.

Senior Scientology executives receive special training to learn how to NEVER "color or minimize" the tone and intensity of any order coming down the lines. They learn how to "pass it along untarnished" - with the full DEMAND and FORCE. People who could do that made it to and stayed on top level executive posts.

Bo would call his remote regges in the orgs, again CONSTANTLY. He would run them on the details of cycles. He would yell. The Captain FSO would come in, and push to, though Jon Lundeen and Ron Norton (Captain FSO) had it arranged where the Captain FSO would ride the Div 2 regges HARD, and Lundeen would run Bo and external regges HARD.

The Captain came in one day when the GI was low, and looked at Bo, with Tone 40 and ratcheted up force, and asked with those intense TRs, "WHY are you personally trying to crash the GI and destroy Scientology"? This sort of stuff was COMMON.

"Why are YOU trying to sabotage Manking's ONLY hope for freedom and truth?" That stuff was always going on.

Unless one has been on these sort of high-pressure lines, I don't think that one can fully understand just what it is like to be on the receiving end of CONSTANT intense Tone 40 demand. And, the inval, make-wrong, anger and yelling was never far away.

The Sea Org involves its own very special sort of insanity (exactly as defined and setup by Hubbard).