Quentin Hubbard - cover up and erasure

[afaceinthecrowd]

I would like to believe this, or some part of it, but if you don't accept that Q planned his own (failed) suicide just when he was at last on his way to realise his dreams, there is only one other option. And it implicates GO, not unknown rough trade.

I would like to believe this, or some part of it, but if you don't accept that Q planned his own (failed) suicide just when he was at last on his way to realise his dreams, there is only one other option. And it implicates GO, not unknown rough trade.

Ya know SOF, in retrospect I made a poor choice of words. I shoulda said “plausible” or “possible” not “most plausible” because, too me, the most plausible is the suicide. I was commenting on Boomima’s thoughts.

Now, I’m not the Holy Grail on all things Q…or El Ron or Mary Sue for that matter…never said I was and I’m not trying to be. But, I’ve got my “Take” and I’m gonna lay down my Tiles to the Mosaic ‘cause that might be helpful to others in putting together the “Picture” for them and it sure enough is helpful to me.

Having known Q, his parents and the environment and general circumstance of his life, to a greater to lesser degree, for a period of years preceding his death I’m gonna finish “purging” my Soul here and then I’ve pretty much said all I’m gonna say about Q. I’ve already “foreshadowed” some of this with my earlier posts and shall endeavor to not be too redundant.

Q blew after his meltdown, culminating with his cramming session, the particulars of which have been documented by Dennis Erlich, the Tech Cramming Officer and are available on the Net.

Q, just a few years earlier, had a meltdown that culminated in El Ron achieving Hisself’s “Tech” Breakthrough ending the need for Psychiatry, The Introspection Rundown, with Q as the Guiney Pig.

Q had spent years as a CL XII dealing with probably some of the most dangerous, F’d up shit El Ron ever thunked up.

Q had spent his entire life interacting with Hisself…just think about that for a minute folks. How many people have you heard about that spent even moderate period of time with El Ron say it was a positive…or even neuter…experience, let alone an entire life?

IMHO, the idea that Q would have been filled with joy and happiness as he ran out into a World he did not really know or understand is nonsense. Knowing Q, knowing human nature, knowing the SO, knowing El Ron, knowing what it’s like to leave after years living within the separate reality the was the “Inner Circle”, Q would have most likely been in a highly agitated, “rollercoastering” state and thinking, thinking, thinking constantly…giddy and happy one minute, depressed beyond all imagination the next…probably unable to sleep, probably drinking, maybe scoring some drugs and trying to do something—anything—to relax, sleep, calm down, temporarily “escape” the moment and the shackles of his past and present and, even if just for that moment, feel safe or something other than what has been haunting him 24/7.

My Psychotherapist friend told me that quite commonly first time suicide attempts are botched. He also told me that often the botched ones occur where someone has gone “over the edge” (my term) after the stress of long term, untreated Depression has built up to a point that culminates in an event or several events that cause the persons mind to suddenly “speed up” on them, and they think themselves into hole or corner wherein suicide not only makes complete sense, it is the right thing—the only thing—for them to do and they “must” do it NOW! My friend didn’t learn all this from books. He did his Doctoral work on Schizophrenics and has—successfully—treated a number first time suicide attempt survivors.

So, again the scenario that Q got himself in a bad situation with some bad folks and shortly thereafter he attempts suicide is—so, so sadly— very plausible to me. My Gawd, think about it for a minute folks…..

In a matter of a few weeks Q has “Dishonored" the CommodeDoor and openly trashed Hisself’s “Tech”, had his Certs jerked (anyone else would have been declared and expelled on the spot and he knew it), blew Flag and SO and has gone out into the “Wog” World and done “Baaaad”, “Eeevvviiilll” and “Discreditable” things.

Q knows he’ll be hunted down and he has personally interacted with the main characters that are hunting him and knows they are as serious as a heart attack: GO EXEC heavies Fred Hare, Jimmy Mulligan, Duke Snyder, Anne Burgess, Kath O’Gorman and Field Ops super spooks Duke Snyder, Brian Rubineck, Bruce Ohlman, Chuck Ohl and Gawd only knows who else (and yes, I knew all of them, too).

Once they found him…and they would find him…what then? What was Q gonna do? Who was gonna stand up for him, aid him, help him. And, back of all this was Hisself. What would it be this time? Another Introspection Rundown or some new “Tech Breakthrough” El Ron would dream up and someday release in a frothing, self-adulating and—to Q—deeply embarrassing and hurtful HCOB?

IMHO, I think it most plausible (and, this time I’ve carefully selected that phrase) that Q may well have reached a point in time, in thinking, in living where he truly felt he had nowhere to run, nowhere to hide and no one there for him. And, the one person that he loved more than anyone else...and loved him more than anyone else loved him...his mother...would not be able to protect him from Hisself.

Fuck you El Ron…Fuck you for all eternity.

Face

[Mark A. Baker]

Ya know SOF, in retrospect I made a poor choice of words. I shoulda said “plausible” or “possible” not “most plausible” because, too me, the most plausible is the suicide. I was commenting on Boomima’s thoughts.

Now, I’m not the Holy Grail on all things Q…or El Ron or Mary Sue for that matter…never said I was and I’m not trying to be. But, I’ve got my “Take” and I’m gonna lay down my Tiles to the Mosaic ‘cause that might be helpful to others in putting together the “Picture” for them and it sure enough is helpful to me.

Having known Q, his parents and the environment and general circumstance of his life, to a greater to lesser degree, for a period of years preceding his death I’m gonna finish “purging” my Soul here and then I’ve pretty much said all I’m gonna say about Q. I’ve already “foreshadowed” some of this with my earlier posts and shall endeavor to not be too redundant.

Q blew after his meltdown, culminating with his cramming session, the particulars of which have been documented by Dennis Erlich, the Tech Cramming Officer and are available on the Net.

Q, just a few years earlier, had a meltdown that culminated in El Ron achieving Hisself’s “Tech” Breakthrough ending the need for Psychiatry, The Introspection Rundown, with Q as the Guiney Pig.

Q had spent years as a CL XII dealing with probably some of the most dangerous, F’d up shit El Ron ever thunked up.

Q had spent his entire life interacting with Hisself…just think about that for a minute folks. How many people have you heard about that spent even moderate period of time with El Ron say it was a positive…or even neuter…experience, let alone an entire life?

IMHO, the idea that Q would have been filled with joy and happiness as he ran out into a World he did not really know or understand is nonsense. Knowing Q, knowing human nature, knowing the SO, knowing El Ron, knowing what it’s like to leave after years living within the separate reality the was the “Inner Circle”, Q would have most likely been in a highly agitated, “rollercoastering” state and thinking, thinking, thinking constantly…giddy and happy one minute, depressed beyond all imagination the next…probably unable to sleep, probably drinking, maybe scoring some drugs and trying to do something—anything—to relax, sleep, calm down, temporarily “escape” the moment and the shackles of his past and present and, even if just for that moment, feel safe or something other than what has been haunting him 24/7.

My Psychotherapist friend told me that quite commonly first time suicide attempts are botched. He also told me that often the botched ones occur where someone has gone “over the edge” (my term) after the stress of long term, untreated Depression has built up to a point that culminates in an event or several events that cause the persons mind to suddenly “speed up” on them, and they think themselves into hole or corner wherein suicide not only makes complete sense, it is the right thing—the only thing—for them to do and they “must” do it NOW! My friend didn’t learn all this from books. He did his Doctoral work on Schizophrenics and has—successfully—treated a number first time suicide attempt survivors.

So, again the scenario that Q got himself in a bad situation with some bad folks and shortly thereafter he attempts suicide is—so, so sadly— very plausible to me. My Gawd, think about it for a minute folks…..

In a matter of a few weeks Q has “Dishonored" the CommodeDoor and openly trashed Hisself’s “Tech”, had his Certs jerked (anyone else would have been declared and expelled on the spot and he knew it), blew Flag and SO and has gone out into the “Wog” World and done “Baaaad”, “Eeevvviiilll” and “Discreditable” things.

Q knows he’ll be hunted down and he has personally interacted with the main characters that are hunting him and knows they are as serious as a heart attack: GO EXEC heavies Fred Hare, Jimmy Mulligan, Duke Snyder, Anne Burgess, Kath O’Gorman and Field Ops super spooks Duke Snyder, Brian Rubineck, Bruce Ohlman, Chuck Ohl and Gawd only knows who else (and yes, I knew all of them, too).

Once they found him…and they would find him…what then? What was Q gonna do? Who was gonna stand up for him, aid him, help him. And, back of all this was Hisself. What would it be this time? Another Introspection Rundown or some new “Tech Breakthrough” El Ron would dream up and someday release in a frothing, self-adulating and—to Q—deeply embarrassing and hurtful HCOB?

IMHO, I think it most plausible (and, this time I’ve carefully selected that phrase) that Q may well have reached a point in time, in thinking, in living where he truly felt he had nowhere to run, nowhere to hide and no one there for him. And, the one person that he loved more than anyone else...and loved him more than anyone else loved him...his mother...would not be able to protect him from Hisself.

Fuck you El Ron…Fuck you for all eternity.

Face

A very sad but cogent argument. I can believe it.


Mark A. Baker

[xguardian]

I knew you before and during the time you were in the G.O. at the Sac Org in the 70’s and one thing has not changed and that is you are a fraud. You lie or at best greatly exaggerate your past before, during and after scientology. The only reasons you post on this board are to impress others to gain admiration through deceit or otherwise push buttons in order to disrupt.

The facts are you spent little time as a scientologist. You have very minimal technical training and no experience in Tech or Qual. You’ve only basic staff training and no executive training. The G.O. post you briefly held was a title only. You blew the G.O. because your former bosses, the A/G and DA/G Sac, Glen & Yuby Wahlquist, caught on to your incompetence and lies. Your biggest accomplishment in scientology was strutting around in a karate gi and brown belt trying to impress others by demonstrating your silly skills at Friday graduation. That’s the short but accurate account of your scientology experience. End of story.

Does the truth hurt? Or are you so dim-witted as to think anyone familiar with your posts actually believes your BS? You have absolutely nothing constructive to offer to this board. Try doing something decent like stop wasting the time of the well intentioned people here.

I don’t out people even someone as pathetic as you. In your case there’s no need to. I’m done with you so don’t bother.

Elapid

First of all, I did the comm course at Ost. I was immediately recruited there by Glen for the PRL post in GO. I was put on fast track training. I completed my HPDC (Hubbard Practicing Dietetics Counselor) took the Management series which was mandatory for any GO hatting and had my life repair and within a year attested to keyed out clear. You were not GO and had no access to my activity as only GO were allowed in our secure section. Your jealousy shows who you might be. I made a lot of enemies by wienies like you because you were jealous of my 2D 'strutting' also and my martial arts demonstrations. I could take your 2D and make you cry! ( I did grow out my womanizing. It was my rock&roll valence lol) and Quit trying to deflect the matter of how you must have a file and why? Your postings say you were COSMOD and came to Org at O st. How could you know me from before O st? I was not from COSMOD. I say you are still onlines, why would you care what my Tech or Qual level was? Like someone here thinks it works? You were better because you were Tech & Qual? You guys from COSMOD had so much anxiety when Sac GO began turning down the "Samualites" for both GO and ORG. Every mission in our purview caused us out PR and headaches and everyone knew there was "no love lost." You are the one that's pathetic...now I have you narrowed down to one or more of my "haters" there whom I still suspect became OSA after GO went down and Glen was transferred. But then again you can be a total fake operating from files.

[Veda]

Veda, I apologize for contributing to the derailment of your thread about Quentin. It was real stupid of me to get sucked into that.

Elapid

No need to apologize. You were helpful. I see that xguardian is continuing to derail this thread - which probably has run its course, peaking with Face's most recent post - so feel free to respond to any accusation from xguardian. I can certainly understand if you don't wish to, however. Despite the noise, I think the subject of Quentin has been pretty well covered, after which I think we'd just be going in circles.

[secretiveoldfag]

WHAT THE MAN SAID

Fuck you El Ron…Fuck you for all eternity.[/SIZE]

Could be true. I only know what I read. But the facts from the outside don't add up to suicide. Someone did a lot of things TO Quentin and he should have died in his car in disguise but he didn't. And when there was no news (how did they know? Who reported back?) the goons were sent to check out this man with red hair and a red moustache and when they found him still alive, albeit unknown and in a coma, this was Not Good News. It's Quentin all right. In other words someone had goofed.

Why was it not good news? They had discovered the Founder's son in critical state in hospital in LV but they do nothing to help, just hang about until he dies. Huh?

Quite a lot of things here smell very bad to me.

[xguardian]

No need to apologize. You were helpful. I see that xguardian is continuing to derail this thread - which probably has run its course, peaking with Face's most recent post - so feel free to respond to any accusation from xguardian. I can certainly understand if you don't wish to, however. Despite the noise, I think the subject of Quentin has been pretty well covered, after which I think we'd just be going in circles.

You Veda are responsible for the animosity here. I commented on my observations and ideas and you attacked me as usual... { Originally Posted by Veda
Quentin died in 1976. His older sister was Diana Hubbard. He was never going to be the one running things.

Xguardian is not the best source of information, unless one wants to believe that Hubbard really was a war hero and high level intelligence agent with Naval Intelligence, and the reason for the Guardians Office winding up in so much trouble was not because of Hubbard's orders, but because it had been infiltrated by "enemy" moles.} You have attacked me on just about every thread or post I have posted trying to derail them. You reap what you sow!

[xguardian]

Ps. Besides my .22 rim fire target rifles I own a 3 rifles also in .22 caliber: .223, 22/250 and .22 Hornet and these are center fire cartridges. Gee Whiz.

You were online when I challenged you why didn't you answer then? ....you did your homework. How's Serena? See ya....

[afaceinthecrowd]

Could be true. I only know what I read. But the facts from the outside don't add up to suicide. Someone did a lot of things TO Quentin and he should have died in his car in disguise but he didn't. And when there was no news (how did they know? Who reported back?) the goons were sent to check out this man with red hair and a red moustache and when they found him still alive, albeit unknown and in a coma, this was Not Good News. It's Quentin all right. In other words someone had goofed.

Why was it not good news? They had discovered the Founder's son in critical state in hospital in LV but they do nothing to help, just hang about until he dies. Huh?

Quite a lot of things here smell very bad to me.

Fair enough...Maye people goofed up a bunch of stuff here...Maybe Q was murdered...Maybe it was a GO plot...an El Ron plot...WTFK's...WTF will ever know?

Y'all know so much more about all this than me and it's all so terribly important to Y'all to grasp at each 40 year old straw, trying to find the smoking gun or prove you know whodunnit.

I've already said in over a thousand words that, in one way or another, I find El Ron fully culpable in the death of that fine, bright, vibrant young man.

May He Rest In Peace.

Adios.

Face

[Auditor's Toad]

[FONT="Tahoma"][SIZE="4"]
<snip>

I, the ever hard headed one, have previously posted I ( who had no facts or any direct knowledge ) did not agree with Face ( who knew first hand the parties involved ) that I disagreed that Q was a suicide.

I now retract my statement. I was flat out wrong in my opinion.

Face says it was a suicide. It was a suicide.

My apologies, Face.

[Auditor's Toad]

There is no poster here that I respect nearly as much as I repect & believe Face.

I dearly love my wife of many years & some say i worship the ground she walks on and there are times I do not agree with her.

I have to fall back on " honorable men can disagree " & I sincerely believe Face is an honorable man, however, this is an instance where he was in an infinirely better position to know the people involved and has a very educated view of what was going on then.

Call me a dummy, I have a different opinion ( I've already said I have absolutely no facts in this matter ).

Call ? I AM a dummy !