Auditing without Tears (and scientology) - an inquery

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

When I saw the title of this thread I thought it was about a Scientology shampoo.

The Anabaptist Jacques

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

He does when he routinely makes accusations against others based solely on his own fixations & prejudices.


Mark A. Baker

OK. But this can be said about anyone.

So how to you distinguish what a person's prejucides and fixations are from their beliefs?

The Anabaptist Jacques

[Smilla]

A Fixed Idea

What torture lurks within a single thought
When grown too constant; and however kind,
However welcome still, the weary mind
Aches with its presence. Dull remembrance taught
Remembers on unceasingly; unsought
The old delight is with us but to find
That all recurring joy is pain refined,
Become a habit, and we struggle, caught.
You lie upon my heart as on a nest,
Folded in peace, for you can never know
How crushed I am with having you at rest
Heavy upon my life. I love you so
You bind my freedom from its rightful quest.
In mercy lift your drooping wings and go.

- Amy Lowell

[olska]

The Space Opera isn't the root of my objections - my own beliefs and practices are probably even stranger. Lol.

My main objection is everything that stems from the delivery of an unregulated mental therapy by untrained amateurs.

A lot of problems stem from that, including quite a few deaths. I know of two such deaths from personal experience. I don't want to see any more.

If Scientologists were willing to meet the minimum ethical standards for recognition as a properly regulated therapy, I would be delighted, but no interest in that seems to exist.

Of course, this is the point where apologists start chanting "It's Pastoral Counselling! It's Pastoral Counselling!" but we all know that it is a mental therapy which seeks to treat mental problems, so that chanting is dishonest. It also attempts to address spiritual matters, but it's primary focus is mental health. The other retort that Rabbis, Priests, and Tibetan Monks do the same thing is untrue. I am an inter-faith representative, and meet regularly with Rabbis, Priests and Monks, and the long-established policy is to refer mentally ill people to Mental Health Professionals. Sure, if you're just feeling a bit down, or have had a bereavment, or such like, they'll chat with you and be supportive, but no way will they attempt to 'treat' you.

Here is a link to a document laying out required standards for counselling and psychotherapy. Scientology falls short by miles. If it were to clean itself up and try to meet these standards, everyone would benefit, but I can't see it happening, because they consider themselves superior to these trained and licenced professionals.

http://www.bacp.co.uk/admin/structur...rk_feb2010.pdf

Well said, and I agree.

I could not care less what people "believe" about spirits, ghosts, origins, God, the devil, superpowers, etc. Fun sometimes to discuss and opine about, and I fully admit to finding some beliefs absolutely ridiculous and saying so; but not an issue for me -- to each his/her own.

The PRACTICES that grow out of such beliefs, when those practices endanger the mental, emotional, or physical health of other human beings, are another matter entirely.

There should be some regulation and oversight, licensing, a Board of some kind that regulates that licensing. Doctors, engineers, surveyors, psychiatrists, psychologists, teachers, drug rehab counselors, massage therapists, hairdressers and barbers, nail salons, food cart vendors, organic produce farmers, have to be certified and licensed FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE PUBLIC.

It's not like being required to obtain certification and a license is some awful thing!

Yet, I've yet to see ANY scientologist, CoS or non-CoS/ independent/ freezone or whatever they call themselves, support ANY kind of external regulation....

because, as you put so well above,

they consider themselves superior to these trained and licenced professionals.

[Mark A. Baker]

OK. But this can be said about anyone.

So how to you distinguish what a person's prejucides and fixations are from their beliefs?

The Anabaptist Jacques

When it is taken to the point of evangelism then it has gone from mere belief to a mission from god.


Mark A. Baker

[Veda]

"non-toxic forms of auditing... as the totality of a subject called 'auditing', not Scientology..."

Veda is not using black PR if he truly believe, like me, that there is nothing positive in Scientology.

-snip-

I have never said that there is nothing positive in Scientology.

I have said there is some positive, and that it is used as deceptive lead-in and as disguise for Scientology and, as deceptive lead-in and as disguise for Scientology, it should be acknowledged, so as to protect people from being deceived.

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

When it is taken to the point of evangelism then it has gone from mere belief to a mission from god.


Mark A. Baker

Can you be a bit more specific?

What exactly are the boundaries?

Because I am usually on a mission from God (but people can't tell it)

The Anabaptist Jacques

[Claire Swazey]

Smilla,

I don't like bad practices either. Or bad deeds, illegal/immoral behavior.

Perhaps its the institutionalization, the inculcation of certain bad and/or predatory ideas in Scn, rampant in policy and in some HCOBs that causes you concern- that the idea may be that people couldn't do it at all, even way outside the cult without those bad ideas affecting them- even if they thought this wouldn't happen.

If that's the concern, I can understand it. I do have some different thoughts on the matter, as you know. However, I'm not without my own misgivings about non CofS Scn.

So for you, I think it's not the space opera, as you've indicated. Tell ya what though- the space opera does seem to anger some people. Maybe they think it'll drive people bonkers. End up like the Heavens Gate ppl. Dunno.

Getting back to you and others who may share your perspective in some ways, perhaps you may be less than sanguine about cherrypicking because of an intrinsic pollution that you have observed in Scn.

I just want to have some commonality and respect. I always liked you, and in the past few months things between us were kind of acerbic. I came to feel that this was in large part, my doing. That's why I wrote the post about John-The-Wonderhusband the other day. It wasn't to chide or be a dick- I wanted to let you into my thought processes, dumb and fluffy as they may be. Oh, and ornery.

I'm pro cherrypicking. Everyone knows that. It's come up a zillion times. I used to want it to be a doable thing back when I was Catholic. I hated absolutism. Then I get in Scn, and what do I get- absolutism. So when I left the cult, I'm like, ok, no absolutism. We can do whatever. Then some people were like, hold on there Fluffy-being, we don't think you can.

Maybe the concept is you can't cherrypick when there's a bunch of fundamental shit wrong with the subject.

I really thought you could. Though I will tell you, I've noticed that occultism seems to take its toll on people and some of them were cherrypicking. Maybe Scn is like that.
I kinda think people can have different approaches and levels of involvement. I hope one can.

So I guess I'll just say that those who want to try doing the cherrypicking thing- ok, but maybe read about some other realms of thought and ways of doing things.

Because I may theorize a lot on this forum, but there is one thing of which I'm positive, if nothing else. Knowledge is power. Read history, current events, news about the cult, news about the other ones, study anthropology, and read about other ways of iife.

[Mark A. Baker]

Can you be a bit more specific?

What exactly are the boundaries?

Because I am usually on a mission from God (but people can't tell it)

The Anabaptist Jacques

Let this serve in place of my breaching board etiquette by naming names.




Mark A. Baker

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Let this serve in place of my breaching board etiquette by naming names.




Mark A. Baker

Don't you blaspheme in here--don't you blaspheme!

Can I get a witness?

The Anabaptist Jacques