What percentage of independents Actually believe in Xenu?

[Feral]

I'm on the Indy list!

And I got onto OTVII, so, do I 'believe' in Xenu?

Shit no.

I can't even remember the tech that I did believe in at the time that qualified me to be on the Indy list.

In retrospect my thorough belief in the tech all looks like a complex mental construct that simply fell apart when a key brick was removed.

[degraded being]

I believe that any independent has to believe in Xenu - they paid so much money for it and spent so much time to get it - what else can they believe - body thetans and clusters are the reason for all problems people have - but I still do not see the unbelievable claims "being" Oatee - it just is not real to me or anyone - never met an OATEE that had any supernatural powers or was even kind. The ones I have met are disconnected from reality and people and individuals.

What is an independent Scientologist OATEE like? Any wins from an independant Oatee?

Is the Pope a Catholic?
Ask the Pope, "Do you ever masturbate?"

[HelluvaHoax!]

No, not necessarily. There is no "All". Opinions and views vary.

Yes, this appears to be true.

Why just yesterday I was doing an OT III session and spotted some wholetrack tofu in my personal universe and blew it.

Mostly I am plagued by Asian macrobiotic manifestations that are spiritually holding me back.

This is what it means to be an Indie Scientologist to me.

Please, nobody invalidate my reality.

[Div6]

What percentage of independents Actually believe in Xenu?
<snip>

What percentage of Catholics Actually believe in Transubstantiation?
What percentage of Christians Actually believe that the God of the Old Testament is the same as the God of the New Testament?

etc.

[Terril park]

Of the survey I did around 10 years ago about approx 25% believed in Xenu, 75% did not.

[Veda]

No Independent Scientologists believe in Xenu. Their PR Tech is IN.

These are the new breed of Internet savvy Scientologists. When some "wog" mentions "Xenu," they smirk dismissively and say, "I don't believe thaaaaaaat! You thought I believed that? Ha!"

What percentage of independents Actually believe in Xenu?

If you are reading this and consider yourself an independent, do you believe the Xenu story to be real?

I never thought of it before that people actually believe it.

I assume Marty believes it? Is that true.

Scientologists think for themselves, just like Ron said they should.

Seriously folks...

This topic has already been covered very thoroughly in this thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...elieve-in-Xenu

I find it offensive when "Tony O" tells me why I believed in Xenu. I never did. It is like saying all Christians believe in Adam and Eve.

I don't care how many people he interviewed. If you were never in the cult you can't really understand.

Oh God, I'm so sorry you were offended.

As you know "Tony O" is a "wog," and "wogs" are "aberrated," so they have a lot of misunderstoods and tend to be very literal minded.

But, ya' know, seriously folks, it's not surprising that the "wogs" would be bewildered on the topic of Xenu, since Scientology has been lying, obfuscating, and spinning and playing mind-games on this topic for the last 45 years and, before that, lying, obfuscating, and spinning and playing mind-games on anything "sensitive" regarding Scientology - since the earliest beginnings of Scientology.

So, try not to be too offended.

Let's review some of the spin just for fun:

The "metaphor" angle (and similar angles) re. the "Xenu PR flap" with the "wogs," brought about by the publicizing of "Incident 2" in the media, was first used by paid $cientology shill J. Gordon Melton many years ago. This allowed Scientology to "handle" an unwanted "PR flap" situation indirectly. Nonetheless, Melton, then an employee of the Scientology cult, was doing what they wished.

Does that mean that the Scientology cult was telling its PCs that "Incident 2" was a metaphor? Obviously not.

The objective is to take the attention of "wogs" off the embarrassing topic of Xenu, etc. and place it onto areas where the Scientology PR wants the "wog's" attention to be. It's a "handling."


The material of the book 'History of Man' is not part of OT 3, but the approach to "handling" any "invalidators " can be traced back to H.O.M.:

From the 'History of Man' ["This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last 60 trillion years"] by L. Ron Hubbard, early 1952, originally titled 'What to Audit':

"Tell people who want to invalidate all this, 'Your criticism is very just. It's only fantasy.'"


The "It's only an allegory"-angle is a similar PR "handling" - to be used on those at "lower awareness levels" - but it's an extension of Hubbard's 1952 PR "handling" of occasionally troublesome "Homo Saps."

It works like this: If it sounds really dumb or crazy, or is exposed as a lie, in front of any particular person or "public," not dumb or gullible enough to believe it, then, immediately, claim that it - whatever it was - is a metaphor, an allegory, a joke, a symbolic representation used as a teaching aid, etc. If this doesn't work, claim it was taken out of context, or that the complaining or ridiculing person or "public" are literal-minded, etc.

In fact, the idea of the "literalizing of L. Ron Hubbard" was re-introduced, recently, by Marty Rathbun.

This is just a more gentle fashion - a "lower gradient" - of saying there's something really wrong with the "antagonistic" person or "public."

From the 1955 'Manual on Dissemination of Material': "Another frame of mind we would like to see the public have and register is that people attacking Scientologist have something wrong with them."

"Why are you making fun of L. Ron Hubbard? There must be something wrong with you!"

It's a form of bullshitting which is used to cover an earlier bullshitting. It's actually pretty "workable," in that a fair number of people seem to fall for it, which means, incidentally, that it's likely to continue.

An example of this would be a Scientology "OT" telling a ridiculing or "nattering" "Wog" - who has just seen the South Park episode exposing OT 3 - that "it's only fantasy." This, of course, would be an example of following Hubbard's instructions on dealing with "Homo Saps" - instructions that dates back to 1952, and were included in the book, 'History of Man'.

These are old "handlings."

For example, this is what David Gaiman, then Public Relations Director for Scientology in England, told Paulette Cooper, in 1971, when asked about the billion year Sea Org contract:

From question/answer #19, in the 'Appendix' of Cooper's book:

19. (from Cooper) "DO THE SEA ORG PEOPLE SIGN A BILLION YEAR CONTRACT?"

(From Gaiman) "Never make an allegoric joke near literal minded humorless reporters."


Well, that was a quick review of just a little bit of Scientology spin. Hope you've enjoyed it.

Feel better?

I hope you're not offended anymore.

And remember, this thread covered the topic very thoroughly, so feel free to re-read it any time.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...elieve-in-Xenu

[Demented LRH]

Very few Christians believe that the Revelations describe actual events; vast majority of the Christians think that the book is a metaphor referring to the events that will occur before the Judgement Day.

I heard that majority of the Indies and Freezoners think that the Xenu story is a metaphor. However, they do not say what kind of events that metaphor refers to (a metaphor cannot exist by itself, it must refer to certain events; otherwise, it is meaningless). I think that even they realize at some level that this is pure science fiction.

[Veda]

-snip-

I think that even they realize at some level that this is pure science fiction.

There ya' go. Now you're getting with the program.

[honeywhite]

Well, speaking for myself only, I think Xenu is pure science fiction, or perhaps it's some sort of metaphor that may not necessarily refer to an event, but to some sort of concept. But I'm leaning toward "pure science fiction".

I guess I could call myself an independent Scientologist, Or maybe not. I've never been audited, and don't plan to be. I do, however, use Training Routines and Study Tech.

So, I think the Xenu stuff is total b.s. But I'm happy to tell people to do a clay demo of whatever they don't understand. After working at it for a while, they usually figure it out.

[Anonycat]

I believe that any independent has to believe in Xenu - they paid so much money for it and spent so much time to get it - what else can they believe - body thetans and clusters are the reason for all problems people have - but I still do not see the unbelievable claims "being" Oatee - it just is not real to me or anyone - never met an OATEE that had any supernatural powers or was even kind. The ones I have met are disconnected from reality and people and individuals.

What is an independent Scientologist OATEE like? Any wins from an independant Oatee?

If you want to use Marty as an example Oatee, I'd say that Oatee's were not able to "throw away their glasses" after all. Time travel, and typing with MEST control are also not on the horizon.