Chick Corea, Heber Jentzsch, Ingo Swann, and Scientology's 1977 OT Summit!

[Veda]

In your opinion.

Are you going to go all Xenu on me now, proscribing me to a dark and hidden corner of your universe for daring to NOT accept the reality box you posit to put people in?

In some ways your posts, reeking of "Authority" and "Altitude" come across kinda like LRH on a bad day.

This statement, for example, is logically inconsistent:
"And, yes, if the OT levels worked, there would now be thousands of outside the CofS OTs."

The first part says "If the OT levels work" and concludes with the statement "there would now be thousands of outside the CofS OTs."

Can you explain how the one follows the other?
Or is it just more Authoritarianism?

I have no idea what you're going on about.

Here's the definition of "Operating Thetan" from the 'Scientology Technical Dictionary', 1975:

"OPERATING THETAN, 1. a thetan exterior who can have but doesn't have to have a body in order to control or operate thought, life, matter, energy, space, and time. 2. willing and knowing cause over life, thought, matter, energy, space and time. And that would of course be mind, and that would of course be universe. 3. an individual who could operate totally independently of his body whether he had one or didn't have one... this state is being attained by drills and familiarity after the state of Clear has been attained."

[Div6]

I have no idea what you're going on about.

<snipped for brevity>

True dat.....

[DagwoodGum]

The way I see it, very simply put, there is the being and the body. Both contribute to the person. Auditing addresses the being. It may also indirectly effect the body, as in stress-induced or psycho-somatic physical problems.


Mark A. Baker

I once thought in such terms, as promulgated by L. Ron Hubbard, but have since come to see that there are genetic factors and complexities involved that he wouldn't have acknowledged as these elements wouldn't feed his no account ATM account. He thought it more profitable to distill our makeups down to his engramic theories. Once these proved unworkable it became all about body thetans. Once these theories failed, and his imagination seemed to have run dry, he simply went into hiding and had his aids make regular cash withdrawals to keep him a happy camper in his Slipstream trailor, probably the best place for him. Too bad he wasn't buried in it like a giant sarcophagus.

[Veda]

True dat.....

If you want to tell me what is eating at you, I'll be glad to listen; however, I don't want to argue with you in tape-loop relentless fashion.

[thetanic]

I once thought in such terms, as promulgated by L. Ron Hubbard, but have since come to see that there are genetic factors and complexities involved that he wouldn't have acknowledged as these elements wouldn't feed his no account ATM account.

I'm somewhere between you and Mark on that scale. I do believe that improving one's mental outlook can improve one's body, but there are also genetic factors that may make that easier or more difficult.

I've stopped blaming myself for being sick. More importantly, I stopped ignoring being sick once I was out. Strange thing is, once I got out? My chronic allergies went away. (Not the worst of my illness, but certainly the most obvious.)

[Mark A. Baker]

I'm somewhere between you and Mark on that scale. I do believe that improving one's mental outlook can improve one's body, but there are also genetic factors that may make that easier or more difficult.

I've stopped blaming myself for being sick. More importantly, I stopped ignoring being sick once I was out. Strange thing is, once I got out? My chronic allergies went away. (Not the worst of my illness, but certainly the most obvious.)

How is that different from my post?

I specified that the being can influence the body, but I did not suggest that the body itself does not have its own physical determinants. Where auditing appears to produce a physical change that change appears to be one dependent on psychological states of the being. That does not exclude non-psychological factors effecting the body.

Whatever the impact of a spirit on the organism it is clear that any mechanism has innate limits of performance.

Besides, I'm bipolar and that has been shown to have a genetic component in its expression. But it also has been shown to be at least partially responsive to non-physical interventions.

The reality is the mind/body problem is more complex than simple paradigms suggest.


Mark A. Baker

[thetanic]

How is that different from my post?

I specified that the being can influence the body, but I did not suggest that the body itself does not have its own physical determinants. Where auditing appears to produce a physical change that change appears to be one dependent on psychological states of the being. That does not exclude non-psychological factors effecting the body.

Fair enough, we agree.