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Thread: The E-meter Scam

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    Default The E-meter Scam

    I am amongst the people who never held e-meter in their hands, although I saw the photos of it and read the descriptions of its functions.

    I know that the e-meter measures electric current running through its cans and the person’s arms; the e-meter readings are in milli-amperes, at least this is what its scale markings look like on the photographs.

    I was racking my brain trying to figure out what the phrase “your needle is floating” means. To me it is equivalent of saying “your needle is moving”. But the needle is always moving due to the presence of electric current. Therefore, the phrases “your needle is not moving” and “your needle is not floating” refer to the events that cannot be observed.

    Supposedly the e-meter is used to determine whether the person is lying or not. But there are no instruction saying, for example, that the reading of 3 milli-amperes shows that the person is lying, and the reading of 4 shows that she is telling the truth. Without explicit instructions it is impossible to draw any conclusion. Perhaps, I am wrong -- Hubbard might have left such instructions, but I could not find them on the Internet.

    E-meter is also used during the Dianetics auditing, which is a mystery to me -- it is supposed to measure the presence or the absence of an engram because the engrams allegedly disappear as the result of auditing. But the engrams themselves are immaterial objects whose presence or absence does not affect the current measurements. Besides, there are no guidelines telling that, for example, the reading of 10 milli-amperes is an indication that an engram had been discarded.

    The worst part of the e-meter nonsense is that the e-meters are not calibrated because there is no acceptable standard to calibrate them. It means that different e-meters produce vastly different readings that cannot be interpreted.

    The most ridiculous part of the e-meter nonsense is that this devices are used to count the number of specters (we, the Marcabians, do not use the word “thetan”) that leave the body during the OT auditing sessions. Please, do not tell me that the e-meters are used to confirm that an implant was deactivated, which is even more ridiculous.

    It seems to me that the e-meter theory is just another grand-lie propagated by money-hungry LRH.
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Etrawl View Post
    I am amongst the people who never held e-meter in their hands, although I saw the photos of it and read the descriptions of its functions.
    I have several meter videos in my ESMB YouTube channel at http://www.youtube.com/user/esmbdof. Videos show more than still photos. I also don't have an agenda of proving it's all bullshit. Most of those videos are experiments of one kind or another.

    This particular "underwater metering" video shows the meter reading where I have the electrode wires sitting in two cups of water, and I have placed my fingertips in the cups, keeping them as still as possible, and not touching the wires. That the meter reads like this shows that it is not reading on sweat/unsweat and muscle twitches.

    There are some F/Ns in there too.



    Check out some of the other videos to see the needle moving and not moving. Don't get the idea that the needle always flops around whoever is holding the cans and whatever is being thought of.

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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Hubbard didn't invent the e-meter, first of all. Volney Matheson did.

    The Floating Needle is a specific read. It's not just any motion. I can't say I know how to spot one (not being professionally meter trained), but here's some info on it: http://www.scientology-cult.com/tech...g-needles.html

    As for the engrams having mass... Supposedly they do. Mass and electrical charge. That's the theory.

    Oh, and the meter is calibrated with can squeezes at the beginning of a session.

    I have no doubt that the e-meter is detecting something. I performed a lot of pinch tests in my duties in the Church, and received a bit of processing. The device is what it is, and it does seem to work. Why do you think Scientologists are so afraid of metered sec checks?

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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by StickbyMe View Post
    Hubbard didn't invent the e-meter, first of all. Volney Matheson did.

    The Floating Needle is a specific read. It's not just any motion. I can't say I know how to spot one (not being professionally meter trained), but here's some info on it: http://www.scientology-cult.com/tech...g-needles.html

    As for the engrams having mass... Supposedly they do. Mass and electrical charge. That's the theory.

    Oh, and the meter is calibrated with can squeezes at the beginning of a session.

    I have no doubt that the e-meter is detecting something. I performed a lot of pinch tests in my duties in the Church, and received a bit of processing. The device is what it is, and it does seem to work. Why do you think Scientologists are so afraid of metered sec checks?
    Did Hubbard say anything about direct measurement of the engram mass? If so, he should have submitted experimental data showing that they have mass.

    A person cannot be used to calibrate an e-meter. In order to calibrate an electric device, you must use another device which is considered to be a standard device, at least this is how electric devices are calibrated in non-Scientology world.

    The e-meter measures the current, I do not doubt that.

    I think that Scientologists are affraid of security checks because they know that e-meters are unreliable and capable of producing readings that are unrealistic. Another explanation of their fears is that they have bought the false idea that this is some kind of lie detector capable to detecting person's lies.
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post
    That the meter reads like this shows that it is not reading on sweat/unsweat and muscle twitches.
    Surely all this shows is that it is not just reading on sweat and muscle twitches. It doesn't rule out those having a measurable effect.

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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Etrawl View Post
    I think that Scientologists are affraid of security checks because they know that e-meters are unreliable and capable of producing readings that are unrealistic. Another explanation of their fears is that they have bought the false idea that this is some kind of lie detector capable to detecting person's lies.
    Why don't you ask some (ex-)Scientologists here? It's not like asking a Roman gladiator what was going through his mind before he entered the arena (i.e., you don't have to theorise but can easily find out).

    Personally I didn't really mind the sec checks. The ones I received were done reasonably accurately, and I knew enough of the mechanics of what the auditor was doing to keep on top of it. It helps if you don't have any really bad things you're scared of disclosing. If the worst thing is that you jerked off while thinking of some other staff member then it's not a big deal. Well, not usually. Others had different experiences with sec checks, and had reason to fear them, whether because of actual crimes, knowing they were just an excuse for 10 hours of gruesome interrogation a day for weeks, having to pay tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for them, or whatever.

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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post
    Personally I didn't really mind the sec checks. The ones I received were done reasonably accurately, and I knew enough of the mechanics of what the auditor was doing to keep on top of it. It helps if you don't have any really bad things you're scared of disclosing. If the worst thing is that you jerked off while thinking of some other staff member then it's not a big deal. Well, not usually. Others had different experiences with sec checks, and had reason to fear them, whether because of actual crimes, knowing they were just an excuse for 10 hours of gruesome interrogation a day for weeks, having to pay tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for them, or whatever.

    Paul
    Although I spent 6 months in Sea Org, I have not had a single sec chech, which may seem strange, I still do not know how to explain it.

    I was not affraid of sec checks because I knew how to fool the e-meter, which I did on numerous occasions when I wanted to avoid word clearing procedures.

    I would say that if the e-meter could be fooled so easily, then it is a very inaccurate device.
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Demented LRH View Post
    I would say that if the e-meter could be fooled so easily, then it is a very inaccurate device.
    I don't audit with one. I sometimes video experiments with one.

    With regard to being fooled, yes. In a real session, done for the person being audited and not for the cult's benefit, the person holding the cans is on the same side as the auditor and not trying to fool him or the meter. Even so, it is very easy to misinterpret what the meter is showing.

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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post
    That the meter reads like this shows that it is not reading on sweat/unsweat and muscle twitches.
    I'm not sure of this, after thinking about it, Paul. If your fingers are sweating as an emotional reaction, they'll probably sweat underwater, too. Add a little bit of salt on the surface of your skin, even underwater, and it might considerably reduce the resistance of the circuit through your body. It might even be most important in the pores of your skin, for all I know, where the water outside would probably be kept out by surface tension anyway.

    Could you re-do experiments like this with your hands either dipped/soaked in salt water before dunking them in the pails with the e-meter wires, or not coated in salt water, to see how much effect skin saltiness has even underwater? Or what about even just tossing a few grains of salt into the water with your hands and the wires, and seeing what that did to the meter needle?

    I'm not particularly trying to shoot down the e-meter with these suggestions. I can see the results going either way, and there's nothing at stake for me personally, since I'm not going to believe the e-meter measures anything non-physical in any case. If it's not skin salt, then I'll just assume it's something else, like muscle tension in the whole body, or vasodilation. I'm just curious as to how much effect skin salt may be having.

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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    I had actually dumped some salt in the water beforehand, and more than a few grains too, like half a teaspoon or something. Similarly for the other underwater metering videos there. I figured it would probably help with the conductivity. It was a real sloppy experiment, as you can see, but I was just curious as to what would happen. It's easy enough for anyone to replicate. Anyone with an emeter, or equivalent, anyway.

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