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Thread: The E-meter Scam

  1. #91

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam7986 View Post
    In that way auditing can actually make you "feel better" or "experience a win" by causing your mind to generate an emotionally traumatic or painful experience which never happened in the first place then causing you to experience said trauma and recover from the associated negative feelings all in a single sitting.

    Its like when you get really sick and then you feel better. Even though you are only back to normal you feel amazing because you felt so terrible only a short while ago.

    Except in this case someone made you sick and then made you better which means the entire procedure was pointless because you weren't sick in the first place.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker View Post
    Trauma is trauma. The 'events' used to explain trauma aren't necessarily true. Many suffer trauma from events which did not in fact occur as they may recall them. Doesn't lessen the trauma, just the trustworthiness of their own particular memory of events.

    Memory is not an infallible process.


    Mark A. Baker

    If you don't buy into the whole track, and past lives, and near infinite amounts of 'charge', it becomes like a game of fetch. A dog will run after a meaningless object because it enjoys running, and a PC will go earlier to find a hidden charge because it feels so good when charge is blown. Sometimes, stick in hand, you make the swing but don't let go of the stick. The dog runs away, but comes back with a rock or a different stick. WIN!! Good boy!!

    I once used Paul's "Rub & Yawn" intro video to thrash apart some emotion that was very close to present time, and it surprised me with it's effectiveness. It left me blown out and floating on air for about 48 hours. Besides easing my mind, it gave me a taste of an amazing, unimpaired high. The feeling faded out, but it felt like the job had been done, and I wasn't too worried about trying to recapture it.

    I think, like a powerful drug, this has good uses. In the case of a body injury, a dose of morphine relief might save somebody dying from shock. Where there's no injury, morphine can equal pleasure. After that, all kinds of imaginary pain might start appearing because it feels so good when the drug takes it away.

    It's a weak analogy, but I don't want to chase any of those dragons. I've known people who can postulate emotional trauma, and they aren't happy.

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  3. #92
    Squirrel Extraordinaire Dulloldfart's Avatar
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by dB8008' View Post
    I once used Paul's "Rub & Yawn" intro video to thrash apart some emotion that was very close to present time, and it surprised me with it's effectiveness. It left me blown out and floating on air for about 48 hours. Besides easing my mind, it gave me a taste of an amazing, unimpaired high. The feeling faded out, but it felt like the job had been done, and I wasn't too worried about trying to recapture it.


    May I quote you?

    Paul
    PaulsRobot Iconic now available for use at www.PaulsRobot2.com. With Auto-Report. Video here. Introductory post here. Debug post here. Dipoles post here.

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  5. #93

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    i was being "toungue in cheek". he explains to us all in great detail how
    an e-meter works or dosn't and he's never laid eyes on one.
    So let's listen to LRH telling us how it reduces weight shall we?

  6. #94

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post


    May I quote you?

    Paul
    You are welcome to quote me.
    I'm going to PM you.

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  8. #95

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post
    I'm speechless.

    Paul
    Paul,

    I'm surprised that this guy hasn't landed on your "ignore" list a long, long time ago!
    "Religion is free; Scientology is neither."

    "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever." - George Orwell, 1984

    "L. Ron Hubbard is the cult leader for the crime that is Scientology." - Cleverbot

    "And while we're at it I might as well toss this in for a good laugh. We were doing a lot of "research" on Rockslams at that time and one of the Hubbard thing's rockslamming items was...(oh you're going to love this)...'unlimited wealth'" - Mystic

  9. #96

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Auditor's Toad View Post
    Which markings ?

    Nevermind, somebody else answered this, uh, question.

    Folks it is obvious the cult holds the e meter in reverence while we detractors don't.

    The meter really doesn't matter. It just doesn't.

    There are harmful, damaging, life threatening things about scientology in beliefs & practices - that does matter.

    But, yes, a whole set of volumes could be written about meter.

    So ? What matters ?
    I'm thinking he's talking about divs and then if you consider divs/session valuable then they are integral to some sort of measuring and all that.
    "Religion is free; Scientology is neither."

    "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever." - George Orwell, 1984

    "L. Ron Hubbard is the cult leader for the crime that is Scientology." - Cleverbot

    "And while we're at it I might as well toss this in for a good laugh. We were doing a lot of "research" on Rockslams at that time and one of the Hubbard thing's rockslamming items was...(oh you're going to love this)...'unlimited wealth'" - Mystic

  10. #97

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post
    Hubbard's e-meter books say something like the meter passes a small current through the body, which measures its resistance. When something charged is encountered, that something has mass, which increases the resistance, which is measured on the meter. When the person does whatever auditing process is involved, the charge is dissipated, and the resistance comes down. There is no metaphor or allegory involved in the "official" explanation — the mass is mass, grams and ounces and pounds. The "Understanding the E-Meter" book says mental image pictures have weight, and there is even a diagram of a person surrounded by lots of heavy-looking (charged) mental image pictures, and a scale showing an increase of 30 lb. because Hubbard lied about said that (the 30 lb. increase) in a lecture once. There's a diagram of a person holding a can in each hand and arrows showing the flow of current up one arm and across the chest and down the other arm and completing the circuit through the meter.

    On a cursory not-too-scientific inspection it sounds OK, apart from the 30 lb. thing. The meter measures the resistance in the body, and the resistance observably goes up when one thinks of emotionally-charged stuff and goes down when one discharges that heavy stuff.

    The explanation wobbles a bit when one considers that some emotionally-charged thing produces exactly the same meter readings, both as to TA (resistance) and needle reads, when holding a can in each hand and holding solo cans in one hand only, with the cans separated by maybe 2 mm of insulator. At least, the TA is exactly the same if the same amount of skin is on the cans when held solo or in two hands.

    Observably, the TA can crash from 6.0 to 2.0 in a few seconds, i.e. the resistance across the body (or across 2 mm of skin) changing from literally 200,000 ohms to 5,000 ohms in a couple of heartbeats. What physical change in the body causes the change in reading? I don't know, although the change in the pc is obvious!

    Paul
    Here's what the tech dictionary has to say:

    CHARGE, 1 . harmful energy or force accumulated and stored within the reactive mind, resulting from the conflicts and unpleasant experiences that a person has had. Auditing discharges this charge so that it is no longer there to affect the
    individual. (Scn AD) 2 . the electrical impulse on the case that activates the meter. (HCOB 27 May 70) 3 . stored energy or stored recreatable potentials of energy. (HCOB 8 Jun 63) 4 . the stored quantities of energy in the time track. It is the sole thing that is being relieved or removed by the auditor from the time track. (HCOB 13 Apr 64, Scn VIPart One Tone Arm Action) 5 . emotional charge or energy. (NSOL, p. 29) 6 . the accumulation of entheta in locks and secondaries which charges up the engrams and gives them their force to aberrate. (SOS Gloss) 7 . by charge is meant anger, fear, grief, or apathy contained as misemotion in the case. (SOS, p. 108) See also CHRONIC CHARGE.

    CHRONIC CHARGE
    , the impulse to withdraw from that which can’t be withdrawn from or to approach that which can’t be approached, and this, like a two pole battery, generates current. This constantly generated current is chronic charge. (HCOB 15 May 63)

    MASS (IN THE GPM), 1. when we say mass we mean mass. It’s electronic standing waves actually, and they usually appear black to the pc and these become visible. (SH Spec 96, 6112C21) 2 . no more and no less than a confusion of
    mismanaged communication. (Dn 55 .!, p. 65)

    MASSES, masses are masses and they are not by the way particles unless you consider particles as a subdivisible singular. Masses are something that are shed from a thetan by mock-up and particles are something that are shed from masses. That’s usually the way we find things. (17 ACC-5, 5703PM01)

    In addition I believe it is in Fundamentals of Thought where Hubbard asserts that with thought alone an individual's weight was altered by as much as thirty pounds.

    Presumably this was done with Havingness Processes or Mock Up processing or something and should be relatively easy to replicate given it were true.

    Hubbard meant mass to be mass in the classical sense...it was measurable and had definable weight even if subtle as it was mentioned along with the measuring of people at death to see if the soul had weight and the corresponding figure of 21 grams.

    The reason for this weight is the mental image mass accompanying the being and NOT the weight of the being itself as it is a static that has no mass, no weight, no location, no wavelength, etc.

    Someone, I think Adam####, mentioned valence for the father remembering the uncle's incident. This would fit Scientology doctrine fine and correctly because the idea of the thetan having weight is related to the thetan being out of valence, blah, blah, blather, babble.

    The idea from Mark Baker that the mass means emotional weight is inaccurate...the mass has physical weight.
    "Religion is free; Scientology is neither."

    "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever." - George Orwell, 1984

    "L. Ron Hubbard is the cult leader for the crime that is Scientology." - Cleverbot

    "And while we're at it I might as well toss this in for a good laugh. We were doing a lot of "research" on Rockslams at that time and one of the Hubbard thing's rockslamming items was...(oh you're going to love this)...'unlimited wealth'" - Mystic

  11. #98

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by degraded being View Post


    Mark has explained that the incidents from the past that one talks about in auditing can be imaginary...he says it does not matter if they are real or not. And that is what Mark seems to think about a lot of other things to do with Scientology. Mark imagines something about scientology and tries to fob it off as the truth. Most people call this lying or at the least gross misrepresentation.

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/archive/i...p/t-11542.html

    "....In the most recent edition of the book Scientology - The Fundamentals of Thought, author L. Ron Hubbard explains:
    Whether the facsimile in the mind is received while the thetan is awake or unconscious, the resulting mass of the "energy picture" is energy -- just as you see energy in an electric bulb or from the flames of a fire. At one time it was considered that "mental energy" was different from "physical energy." In Scientology it has been discovered that mental energy is simply a finer, higher-level physical energy.

    The test of this is conclusive in that a thetan, mocking-up (creating) mental image pictures and thrusting them into the body, can increase the body mass. And, by casting them away again, can decrease the body mass. This test has actually been made and an increase of as much as thirty pounds (actually measured on scales) has been added to and subtracted from a body by creating mental energy.L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology - The Fundamentals of Thought, (c) 2007 L. Ron Hubbard Library, at pg. 72 (emphasis added). (The Scientology term "thetan" is roughly equivalent to the word "soul." The difference is that in Christianity, for example, one would say that you have a soul. In Scientology one would say you are a thetan who happens to possess a body.)
    ...."
    As to my last post...what he said!
    "Religion is free; Scientology is neither."

    "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever." - George Orwell, 1984

    "L. Ron Hubbard is the cult leader for the crime that is Scientology." - Cleverbot

    "And while we're at it I might as well toss this in for a good laugh. We were doing a lot of "research" on Rockslams at that time and one of the Hubbard thing's rockslamming items was...(oh you're going to love this)...'unlimited wealth'" - Mystic

  12. #99
    Squirrel Extraordinaire Dulloldfart's Avatar
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by guanoloco View Post
    In addition I believe it is in Fundamentals of Thought where Hubbard asserts that with thought alone an individuals weight was altered by as much as thirty pounds.

    Presumably this was done with Havingness Processes or Mock Up processing or something and should be relatively easy to replicate given it were true.
    I remember a lecture where he talked about this. I had made the same assumption as you. In the lecture he said this process occurred over a time period of *weeks.* He didn't mention any other possible reasons for the weight to go up and down!

    Hubbard meant mass to be mass in the classical sense...it was measurable and had definable weight even if subtle as it was mentioned along with the measuring of people at death to see if the soul had weight and the corresponding figure of 21 grams.
    Here is the original 1907 write-up: http://www.ghostweb.com/soul.html. I didn't bother to link to articles poo-poohing it, which some may prefer.

    The reason for this weight is the mental image mass accompanying the being and NOT the weight of the being itself as it is a static that has no mass, no weight, no location, no wavelength, etc.
    Static and thetan are not synonymous in Scientology. The thetan runs the body in the Hubbaverse, not a static, complete with electronic anchor points and other exotica.

    Paul
    PaulsRobot Iconic now available for use at www.PaulsRobot2.com. With Auto-Report. Video here. Introductory post here. Debug post here. Dipoles post here.

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  14. #100

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post
    -snip-

    Static and thetan are not synonymous in Scientology. The thetan runs the body in the Hubbaverse, not a static, complete with electronic anchor points and other exotica.

    Paul
    Here's from the Tech Dictionary again and I'm using definitions two, four and ten:

    THETAN, 1. the living unit we call, in Scn, a thetan, that being taken from the Greek letter theta, the mathematic symbol used in Scn to indicate the source of life and life itself. (Abil Ma 1) 2 . the awareness of awareness unit which has all potentialities but no mass, no wave-length and no location. (HCOB 3 Jul 59) 3 . the being who is the individual and who handles and lives in the body. (HCOB 23 Apr 69) 4 . (spirit) is described in Scn as having no mass, no wave-length, no energy and no time or location in space except by consideration or postulate. The spirit is not a thing. It is the creator of things. (FOT, p. 55) 5 . the personality and beingness which actually is the individual and is aware of being aware and is ordinarily and normally the “person” and who the individual thinks he is. The thetan is immortal and is possessed of capabilities well in excess of those hitherto predicted for man. (Scn 8-8008, p. 9) 6 . the name given to the life source. It is the individual, the being, the personality, the knowingness of the human being. (Scn 8-80, p. 46) 7 . energyspace production unit. (COHA, p. 247) 8 . in the final analysis what is this thing called thetan? It is simply you before you mocked yourself up and that is the handiest definition I know of. (5608C——) 9 . the person himself—not his body or his name, the physical universe, his mind, or anything else; that which is aware of being aware; the identity which is the individual. The thetan is most familiar to one and all as you. (Aud 25 UK) 1 0 . a static that can consider, and can produce space and energy and objects . (PXL, p . 121 )

    At any rate we agree...Hubbard definitely meant mass to mean weighable, measurable matter.
    "Religion is free; Scientology is neither."

    "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever." - George Orwell, 1984

    "L. Ron Hubbard is the cult leader for the crime that is Scientology." - Cleverbot

    "And while we're at it I might as well toss this in for a good laugh. We were doing a lot of "research" on Rockslams at that time and one of the Hubbard thing's rockslamming items was...(oh you're going to love this)...'unlimited wealth'" - Mystic

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