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Thread: The E-meter Scam

  1. #51
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

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  2. #52

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by omnom View Post
    ...
    I am entirely unconvinced of the idea of charge and blowing mass and whatnot, but I cannot debunk it entirely either, because I've never held the cans and observed the results. ...
    Don't confuse 'charge' with the electrical concept. Nor 'mass' with the physical one. Both represent subjective states of feeling.

    Charge represents the degree which something is upsetting to one's sense of well-being. Mass is the associated mental sensation of heaviness which often accompanies such upset.

    Example: if a guy thinks his girlfriend is dating someone else he is apt to be upset and anxious, feeling charged up. His spirits will be heavy. when he finds out he is mistaken, perhaps he mistook her sister for her, then the upset (charge) vanishes and his spirit lifts (mass vanishes).

    Hubbard himself confused the issue, no doubt due to his poor understanding of the actual functioning of the emeter and his attempt to force his theories to conform with the observed actual functioning of emeters in session.

    Charge and mass in auditing represent subjective mental states and feelings, not physical quantities.


    Mark A. Baker
    "Hubbard is alive and well. He lives through his
    creations."
    - Purple Rain



    "Because nothing has the be true forever. Just for long enough, to tell you the truth."

    - T. Pratchett, The Truth

  3. #53
    Patron with Honors omnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Veda View Post
    Hubbard, 1952:

    "This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last 60 trillion years..."
    Well, he spelled out "sixty", but that is in the Foreward. I have a copy of the 1968 printing of AHOM I got at a used bookstore for a couple of bucks. Inside the front cover is an old "To the reader:" stick-on disclaimer, and hand-written wording saying: "Qual Div. Sac. Org."

    A lot of people gag on the clam and weeper incidents, but one of my favorite lines is the last line in this edition:
    "Aside from inaccessible persons and psychotics in general, most cases should become MEST clear in a few weeks of hard auditing."

    I also have the Astounding Science Fiction of May 1950 (with the cover as in the video above) that I found on eBay. What a dense load of nonsense that is.

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  5. #54
    Declared SP Adam7986's Avatar
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Demented LRH View Post
    I think that the e-meter is in part responsible for creation of false memories of the past lives. I am not sure if it generates false memories of events that supposedly occurred in present life.
    Our memories aren't very reliable to begin with. It's actually pretty easy to fool someone into remembering something that didn't happen even without cult indoctrination.

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  7. #55
    Patron with Honors omnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post
    Go to the mall! Really, do it, assuming this is a possibility for you. It won't cost you anything (leave all cash and plastic at home), and you should have enough confidence in the person operating the meter for it to read properly. And it's certainly easier than buying one or making one. Plus you can ask the guy questions, then check his answers with us afterwards.

    For an email address, use Mailinator at http://www.mailinator.com. It's wonderful. You choose an address, any address, like dogfude@mailinator.com. No sign-up at all. To check your inbox go to http://dogfude.mailinator.com. Use too simple a name and there will be messages already for other people who have used that same name. No privacy at all. Check out a few, like http://paul.mailinator.com for instance — you'll see that "paul" gets hundreds of spam messages a day and so is useless if you want to actually receive (and read) something personal there.

    Paul
    Oh I'm down with email addresses. I also hope they don't recognize me from spending some time in front of the Org with people carrying signs...

    Plus, somebody awesome set me up with an "upstat" gmail address

    If I do this, I'll definitely start a thread on it.

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  9. #56
    Declared SP Adam7986's Avatar
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    5 Mind Blowing Ways Your Memory Plays Tricks On You

    That's how you get weird-ass situations like the fake repressed memories; experiments show that if you run into someone who knew you as a child and they tell you about an event you don't personally remember, you'll construct a memory to match it--even if it didn't actually happen. It's like we have evolved to be able to lie, but still haven't gotten to the point where we can get our minds around the fact that other people do it. As with the first entry, we find our memories are putty in the hands of people who know how to manipulate them.
    Check out that article if you want to learn a bit about how unreliable humans' memories are and also have a little humor in the process.

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  11. #57

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam7986 View Post
    Our memories aren't very reliable to begin with. It's actually pretty easy to fool someone into remembering something that didn't happen even without cult indoctrination.
    Which is why that which is important in auditing to address isn't the objective truth of incident content but whether any emotional charge associated with the ideas contained therein has been fully addressed. Individual pcs can decide for themselves whether to believe the incidents. Belief is not necessary for success in auditing.


    Mark A. Baker
    "Hubbard is alive and well. He lives through his
    creations."
    - Purple Rain



    "Because nothing has the be true forever. Just for long enough, to tell you the truth."

    - T. Pratchett, The Truth

  12. #58
    Patron with Honors omnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker View Post
    Don't confuse 'charge' with the electrical concept. Nor 'mass' with the physical one. Both represent subjective states of feeling.

    Charge represents the degree which something is upsetting to one's sense of well-being. Mass is the associated mental sensation of heaviness which often accompanies such upset.

    Example: if a guy thinks his girlfriend is dating someone else he is apt to be upset and anxious, feeling charged up. His spirits will be heavy. when he finds out he is mistaken, perhaps he mistook her sister for her, then the upset (charge) vanishes and his spirit lifts (mass vanishes).

    Hubbard himself confused the issue, no doubt due to his poor understanding of the actual functioning of the emeter and his attempt to force his theories to conform with the observed actual functioning of emeters in session.

    Charge and mass in auditing represent subjective mental states and feelings, not physical quantities.


    Mark A. Baker
    Interesting. I think I understood "charge" somewhat properly, but "mass" I most definitely did not. Is this explained by any official LRH writings, or is this one of the refinements made outside of CoS?

    Although I'd be walking in with a heavy bit of criticism, I'm also aware that any preconceptions I have are just a hypothesis. I'm hoping that if I did go sit down at a table at the mall, they'd be used to this and easily diffuse my early objections.

    I really want to see this work with me, so I can get a better ideas of how it works (not the mechanics of it, but the reported result to me as a PC). I'm truly interested.

  13. #59
    Declared SP Adam7986's Avatar
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker View Post
    Which is why that which is important in auditing to address isn't the objective truth of incident content but whether any emotional charge associated with the ideas contained therein has been fully addressed. Individual pcs can decide for themselves whether to believe the incidents. Belief is not necessary for success in auditing.


    Mark A. Baker
    In that way auditing can actually make you "feel better" or "experience a win" by causing your mind to generate an emotionally traumatic or painful experience which never happened in the first place then causing you to experience said trauma and recover from the associated negative feelings all in a single sitting.

    Its like when you get really sick and then you feel better. Even though you are only back to normal you feel amazing because you felt so terrible only a short while ago.

    Except in this case someone made you sick and then made you better which means the entire procedure was pointless because you weren't sick in the first place.

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  15. #60

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam7986 View Post
    In that way auditing can actually make you "feel better" or "experience a win" by causing your mind to generate an emotionally traumatic or painful experience which never happened in the first place then causing you to experience said trauma and recover from the associated negative feelings all in a single sitting.

    Its like when you get really sick and then you feel better. Even though you are only back to normal you feel amazing because you felt so terrible only a short while ago.

    Except in this case someone made you sick and then made you better which means the entire procedure was pointless because you weren't sick in the first place.
    Trauma is trauma. The 'events' used to explain trauma aren't necessarily true. Many suffer trauma from events which did not in fact occur as they may recall them. Doesn't lessen the trauma, just the trustworthiness of their own particular memory of events.

    Memory is not an infallible process.


    Mark A. Baker
    "Hubbard is alive and well. He lives through his
    creations."
    - Purple Rain



    "Because nothing has the be true forever. Just for long enough, to tell you the truth."

    - T. Pratchett, The Truth

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