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Thread: The E-meter Scam

  1. #61

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by omnom View Post
    Interesting. I think I understood "charge" somewhat properly, but "mass" I most definitely did not. Is this explained by any official LRH writings, or is this one of the refinements made outside of CoS?

    ...

    My explanations of the terms are based both on descriptions of the terms in the scientology materials along with how they are actually encountered and used in session.

    Hubbard's usage is often inconsistent. Much of hubbard's writings are directly logically inconsistent. They also reflect hubbard's own very poor state of knowledge with regard to basic science and mathematics. Anything he had to say relating to the subject of physics in particular should not be relied upon as trustworthy. He was a failed science student for good reason.


    Mark A. Baker
    "Hubbard is alive and well. He lives through his
    creations."
    - Purple Rain



    "Because nothing has the be true forever. Just for long enough, to tell you the truth."

    - T. Pratchett, The Truth

  2. #62
    Declared SP Adam7986's Avatar
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker View Post
    Trauma is trauma. The 'events' used to explain trauma aren't necessarily true. Many suffer trauma from events which did not in fact occur as they may recall them. Doesn't lessen the trauma, just the trustworthiness of their own particular memory of events.

    Memory is not an infallible process.


    Mark A. Baker
    Yes but the fact remains that auditing could and likely does create trauma that never existed in the first place. That negates the entire idea of "removing past trauma" to better someone.

    In fact you just trick them into thinking they are feeling better by making them feel like shit and then telling them it's okay.

    Things like this are so subjective though.

    I think that rather than encouraging someone to "re-" live trauma which may or may not have occurred is a lot less effective than encouraging someone to develop practical skills which allow them to overcome present day obstacles.

    Auditing itself is very backwards. You're encouraging someone to fixate on the past while telling them it will help them with their present day lives. It makes no sense.

    Show me someone who had a physical deformity or debilitating illness that was cured by spending time meditating on past experiences which may or may not have happened. I will show you someone who is convinced that imaginary time travel can change the future.

    Rhetorical of course. That's not a literal demand.

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  4. #63

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam7986 View Post
    Yes but the fact remains that auditing could and likely does create trauma that never existed in the first place. That negates the entire idea of "removing past trauma" to better someone. ...
    Not at all. You have over-simplified the matter.

    The abuse of auditing might. The same is true of any abuse of trust. Betrayal by a friend creates trauma. Indiscreet remarks by a minister produces trauma.

    Auditing is a trust based process,abuse of that trust is what has the potential to create trauma. The same is true with any form of counseling.


    Mark A. Baker
    "Hubbard is alive and well. He lives through his
    creations."
    - Purple Rain



    "Because nothing has the be true forever. Just for long enough, to tell you the truth."

    - T. Pratchett, The Truth

  5. #64
    Declared SP Adam7986's Avatar
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker View Post
    Not at all. You have over-simplified the matter.

    The abuse of auditing might. The same is true of any abuse of trust. Betrayal by a friend creates trauma. Indiscreet remarks by a minister produces trauma.

    Auditing is a trust based process,abuse of that trust is what has the potential to create trauma. The same is true with any form of counseling.


    Mark A. Baker
    Psychiatry and psychology abandoned "regression" techniques (which one could equate to auditing) as common practice because of it's propensity to create memories out of thin air. That's very different than trauma experienced by abuse of a trusting relationship.

    I'm talking about literally creating a "Dianetic Engram" which never existed.

    My dad thought that he had been soaked in gasoline as a kid. It wasn't him. It was in fact his brother who had been soaked in gasoline as a kid. My dad ran back to church to ask about it and they told him that it was "valence shifting".

    And thus we see how different parts of Dianetics and Scientology cannot exist independent from the whole. All of the millions of words Hubbard wrote were to explain why auditing didn't work. Hence the need for correction lists, study tech, ethics, justice, PTS Tech, ad infinitum.

    Instead of just evolving his therapy into a workable therapy like psychology and psychiatry, he insisted on being right and worked his best to convince everyone about how right he was. Then he created PTS and Ethics Tech to prove to everyone they are criminals and they are wrong.

    I think the lucrative nature of his business was discovered by accident.

    ETA: David Miscavich continues Hubbard's process with the Golden Age of Everything Under the Sun, Moon and Stars. He really is following in Hubbard's footsteps.

    Scientology is not expanding so create something to explain why: alter checksheets, create new drills, promise superpower, buy new churches. declare everyone SPs, etc.

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  7. #65
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by omnom View Post
    Interesting. I think I understood "charge" somewhat properly, but "mass" I most definitely did not. Is this explained by any official LRH writings, or is this one of the refinements made outside of CoS?

    Although I'd be walking in with a heavy bit of criticism, I'm also aware that any preconceptions I have are just a hypothesis. I'm hoping that if I did go sit down at a table at the mall, they'd be used to this and easily diffuse my early objections.

    I really want to see this work with me, so I can get a better ideas of how it works (not the mechanics of it, but the reported result to me as a PC). I'm truly interested.
    When I was a Scientologist, I tried hard to understand what Hubbard meant by the "mass" in reference to the engram -- is it a real mass or a feeling of heaviness, as Mark wrote?
    I could not reach a conclusion, but I do not think that it was my fault.
    “This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm”.
    L. Ron Hubbard

    No soy marinero, soy capitan del culto de mi padre.
    LRH era loco y estupido.

  8. #66
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker View Post
    My explanations of the terms are based both on descriptions of the terms in the scientology materials along with how they are actually encountered and used in session.

    Hubbard's usage is often inconsistent. Much of hubbard's writings are directly logically inconsistent. They also reflect hubbard's own very poor state of knowledge with regard to basic science and mathematics. Anything he had to say relating to the subject of physics in particular should not be relied upon as trustworthy. He was a failed science student for good reason.


    Mark A. Baker
    To read MAB trying to explain LRH after saying he is " logically inconsistent" is PIMP funny stuff !

    I had no idea this thread would end up this funny ! Thanks MAB !

    PS - Oh, has anyone ever had their e meter play " Dixie " ?

    We might start a thread comparing renditions !

    " Insist on yourself ; never imitate ".
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

    " Nothing is as at last scared but the integrity of your own mind "
    Ralph Waldo Emerson


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  10. #67
    Squirrel Extraordinaire Dulloldfart's Avatar
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Hubbard's e-meter books say something like the meter passes a small current through the body, which measures its resistance. When something charged is encountered, that something has mass, which increases the resistance, which is measured on the meter. When the person does whatever auditing process is involved, the charge is dissipated, and the resistance comes down. There is no metaphor or allegory involved in the "official" explanation — the mass is mass, grams and ounces and pounds. The "Understanding the E-Meter" book says mental image pictures have weight, and there is even a diagram of a person surrounded by lots of heavy-looking (charged) mental image pictures, and a scale showing an increase of 30 lb. because Hubbard lied about said that (the 30 lb. increase) in a lecture once. There's a diagram of a person holding a can in each hand and arrows showing the flow of current up one arm and across the chest and down the other arm and completing the circuit through the meter.

    On a cursory not-too-scientific inspection it sounds OK, apart from the 30 lb. thing. The meter measures the resistance in the body, and the resistance observably goes up when one thinks of emotionally-charged stuff and goes down when one discharges that heavy stuff.

    The explanation wobbles a bit when one considers that some emotionally-charged thing produces exactly the same meter readings, both as to TA (resistance) and needle reads, when holding a can in each hand and holding solo cans in one hand only, with the cans separated by maybe 2 mm of insulator. At least, the TA is exactly the same if the same amount of skin is on the cans when held solo or in two hands.

    Observably, the TA can crash from 6.0 to 2.0 in a few seconds, i.e. the resistance across the body (or across 2 mm of skin) changing from literally 200,000 ohms to 5,000 ohms in a couple of heartbeats. What physical change in the body causes the change in reading? I don't know, although the change in the pc is obvious!

    Paul
    PaulsRobot Iconic now available for use at www.PaulsRobot2.com. With Auto-Report. Video here. Introductory post here. Debug post here. Dipoles post here.

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  12. #68

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Demented LRH View Post
    There is no such thing as F/N, if you believe in this stuff then you are fooling yourself. Read a description of the e-meter and see that it is nothing more than a disfunctional ammeter.
    Ammeters of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but insults from idiots.

    "AUDITORS OF THE WORLD UNITE,
    YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR CERTS"
    - L. Ron Hubbard

    Both comments denigrating function.

  13. #69

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post
    Hubbard's e-meter books say something like the meter passes a small current through the body, which measures its resistance. When something charged is encountered, that something has mass, which increases the resistance, which is measured on the meter. When the person does whatever auditing process is involved, the charge is dissipated, and the resistance comes down. There is no metaphor or allegory involved in the "official" explanation — the mass is mass, grams and ounces and pounds. The "Understanding the E-Meter" book says mental image pictures have weight, and there is even a diagram of a person surrounded by lots of heavy-looking (charged) mental image pictures, and a scale showing an increase of 30 lb. because Hubbard lied about said that (the 30 lb. increase) in a lecture once. There's a diagram of a person holding a can in each hand and arrows showing the flow of current up one arm and across the chest and down the other arm and completing the circuit through the meter.

    On a cursory not-too-scientific inspection it sounds OK, apart from the 30 lb. thing. The meter measures the resistance in the body, and the resistance observably goes up when one thinks of emotionally-charged stuff and goes down when one discharges that heavy stuff.

    The explanation wobbles a bit when one considers that some emotionally-charged thing produces exactly the same meter readings, both as to TA (resistance) and needle reads, when holding a can in each hand and holding solo cans in one hand only, with the cans separated by maybe 2 mm of insulator. At least, the TA is exactly the same if the same amount of skin is on the cans when held solo or in two hands.

    Observably, the TA can crash from 6.0 to 2.0 in a few seconds, i.e. the resistance across the body (or across 2 mm of skin) changing from literally 200,000 ohms to 5,000 ohms in a couple of heartbeats. What physical change in the body causes the change in reading? I don't know, although the change in the pc is obvious!

    Paul
    the bottom line: meters are workable session tools, although not essential ones; and hubbard's explanation as to why they work is bunk.


    Mark A. Baker
    "Hubbard is alive and well. He lives through his
    creations."
    - Purple Rain



    "Because nothing has the be true forever. Just for long enough, to tell you the truth."

    - T. Pratchett, The Truth

  14. #70

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Demented LRH View Post
    I wish I had an e-meter so I could send it to you. But I never bought one for myself. I heard that the folks who recently left CoS sell their e-meters on eBay at a nominal price.
    Its very reassuring to know that your expertise is not from hands on
    experience but purely from a pure philosophical "thought experiment" basis.

    Can you enlighten us on further mysteries?

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