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Thread: The E-meter Scam

  1. #71
    Patron with Honors omnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    Its very reassuring to know that your expertise is not from hands on experience but purely from a pure philosophical "thought experiment" basis.
    To be fair, so is mine. So is all of ours, really, since to my knowledge, nobody inside or outside of the CoS has submitted this to the proper process to understand fully how/why it works the way it does, nor the money or inclination to do so.

    Unfortunately, as a "non-funded researcher", the bar is a little too high to try this out for many people, cost-wise. The divide for me is that if I were sufficiently invested in the outcome, I could justify the cost, but I'm really not, so I don't. Besides, when you're invested in the idea, confirmation bias concerns me, so I have to take both polar sides with a similar grain of salt.

    I did enjoy Paul's videos referenced above in the thread, though.

  2. #72

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker View Post
    My explanations of the terms are based both on descriptions of the terms in the scientology materials along with how they are actually encountered and used in session.

    Hubbard's usage is often inconsistent. Much of hubbard's writings are directly logically inconsistent. They also reflect hubbard's own very poor state of knowledge with regard to basic science and mathematics. Anything he had to say relating to the subject of physics in particular should not be relied upon as trustworthy. He was a failed science student for good reason.


    Mark A. Baker
    So, first a 'genius' conman LRH lies and manipulates.

    Then the genius Mark Baker shows up to misrepresent the lies, the conman and the manipulation with such an assured air of authority. How wonderful. Now we know how to deal with trauma.

    I did not think the coolaid could be made any worse. But apparently it can.

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  4. #73

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Demented LRH View Post
    When I was a Scientologist, I tried hard to understand what Hubbard meant by the "mass" in reference to the engram -- is it a real mass or a feeling of heaviness, as Mark wrote?
    I could not reach a conclusion, but I do not think that it was my fault.


    Mark has explained that the incidents from the past that one talks about in auditing can be imaginary...he says it does not matter if they are real or not. And that is what Mark seems to think about a lot of other things to do with Scientology. Mark imagines something about scientology and tries to fob it off as the truth. Most people call this lying or at the least gross misrepresentation.

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/archive/i...p/t-11542.html

    "....In the most recent edition of the book Scientology - The Fundamentals of Thought, author L. Ron Hubbard explains:
    Whether the facsimile in the mind is received while the thetan is awake or unconscious, the resulting mass of the "energy picture" is energy -- just as you see energy in an electric bulb or from the flames of a fire. At one time it was considered that "mental energy" was different from "physical energy." In Scientology it has been discovered that mental energy is simply a finer, higher-level physical energy.

    The test of this is conclusive in that a thetan, mocking-up (creating) mental image pictures and thrusting them into the body, can increase the body mass. And, by casting them away again, can decrease the body mass. This test has actually been made and an increase of as much as thirty pounds (actually measured on scales) has been added to and subtracted from a body by creating mental energy.L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology - The Fundamentals of Thought, (c) 2007 L. Ron Hubbard Library, at pg. 72 (emphasis added). (The Scientology term "thetan" is roughly equivalent to the word "soul." The difference is that in Christianity, for example, one would say that you have a soul. In Scientology one would say you are a thetan who happens to possess a body.)
    ...."

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  6. #74
    Declared SP Adam7986's Avatar
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Scientology is always promoted as "simple" until someone tries to explain it in a way that a Scientologist disagrees with.

    Then all of a sudden it becomes complicated and you become wrong because you can't grasp how simple it is.

    It's so simple that you can't understand it because it's too simple. So please take this 50,000 word course pack and listen to 6 hours of lectures so you can understand how simple it is.

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  8. #75
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker View Post
    the bottom line: meters are workable session tools, although not essential ones; and hubbard's explanation as to why they work is bunk.
    Heh! The last resort of the apologist: "workable". Hells bells, a teaspoon is a "workable session tool" for digging a tunnel, but not essential.

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  10. #76
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite View Post
    Heh! The last resort of the apologist: "workable". Hells bells, a teaspoon is a "workable session tool" for digging a tunnel, but not essential.
    True, however, if one were in a prison and the only tool one had available for digging a tunnel for escape, was a spoon, that spoon would in fact be essential in addition to being workable. Do the metaphorical transposition. Surely you will understand.

    The e-meter (and the spoon) are not the problem. And never were the problem. And never will be the problem. The prison is the problem. And how to escape from the prison is the problem. And how to 'use' the spoon to dig the tunnel to escape from the prison is the problem.

    Having an e-meter and bitching about the mechanics of it, is like receiving a rose and complaining about the color of it. Better to enjoy it or discard it. It being both.

    much love,
    Horacio

  11. #77
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by HoraciotheOT8 View Post
    True, however, if one were in a prison and the only tool one had available for digging a tunnel for escape, was a spoon, that spoon would in fact be essential in addition to being workable. Do the metaphorical transposition. Surely you will understand.

    The e-meter (and the spoon) are not the problem. And never were the problem. And never will be the problem. The prison is the problem. And how to escape from the prison is the problem. And how to 'use' the spoon to dig the tunnel to escape from the prison is the problem.

    Having an e-meter and bitching about the mechanics of it, is like receiving a rose and complaining about the color of it. Better to enjoy it or discard it. It being both.

    much love,
    Horacio
    So what you're basically saying is that the e-meter was created out of desperation and not the ludicrous feat of engineering that it was promoted to be?

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  13. #78
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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam7986 View Post
    So what you're basically saying is that the e-meter was created out of desperation and not the ludicrous feat of engineering that it was promoted to be?
    Close. Not bad. But it's more like: Necessity is the Mother of Invention. Along with a few other choice clich'es.

    For example: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. (the ability to fool both an emeter 'and' an auditor is commonplace, in certain higher circles).

    And: A fool and his money are soon parted.

    And: Hell knoweth no fury like the wrath of an ex-scientologist. etc. etc. etc.


    much love,
    Horacio

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    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by HoraciotheOT8 View Post
    And: A fool and his money are soon parted.
    So what you're saying is that Hubbard was a fool because Miscavige took all his money and spent it on things that Hubbard himself would never have spent it on?

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  16. #80

    Default Re: The E-meter Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by HoraciotheOT8 View Post
    Close. Not bad. But it's more like: Necessity is the Mother of Invention. Along with a few other choice clich'es.

    For example: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. (the ability to fool both an emeter 'and' an auditor is commonplace, in certain higher circles).

    And: A fool and his money are soon parted.

    And: Hell knoweth no fury like the wrath of an ex-scientologist. etc. etc. etc.


    much love,
    Horacio
    As you said....cliches.

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