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Thread: Friendly Greetings

  1. #31
    A Girl Has No Name NoName's Avatar
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    Default Re: Friendly Greetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Udarnik View Post
    When I was a kid, we had some Pentecostals visit our (Baptist) church pretty regularly, relatives of some of our members from down in New Orleans. They weren't snake handlers (most if not all of those guys in WVA are white), but they practiced glossolalia, and that left a really weird taste in my mouth - even back then I was something of a linguist, and I could pick out recurring patterns that corresponded more to a baby's babble than to meaningful speech. Later I saw the linguistic and neurological analyses that bore out my obeservations from back then.

    Does your church practice glossolalia? When I was in the USSR, I took some messages and packages to relatives of people I knew in the US in Pinsk. The ones in the US told me that though they were Pentecostals, that Pentacostals in the USSR were more like Baptists here. I was a bit skeptical, but they were correct about the Byelorussian Pentacostals - no speaking in tongues, no rolling in the aisles. You mentioned you had Korean roots, and I know a few Korean Christians, and it seems the same there - what one denomination is known for in the US is not what is practiced in the same denomination outside the US, so I was just curious.
    My family went to the Yoido Assemblies of God in Korea. I still read their website a lot, but that's not the church I go to now. I don't recall speaking in tongues from when I was younger, but I was really young the last time I went to one of their services live. Still, that's the sort of thing that I probably would have remembered.

    Now I go to Foursquare church and it happens from time to time. That's been the one aspect of it that I find strange, so I'm glad they place less emphasis on it. When I went to the local (American) Assembly of God, they seemed to do it more. That's why I ended up at the Foursquare - smaller group, more diverse, younger, and less obsessed with the tongues.

    I speak from my experience with the congregations near me in Maryland, though - my observation may or may not apply to the respective movements as a whole.

    I recently read that the American Pentacostal movement is getting away from speaking in tongues, which is a relief, because when I compared notes with my Aunt who lives in Seoul (talking about religion following my cult shock), my opinion became that American Pentacostal denominations focused on speaking in tongues to the exclusion of other gifts of the spirit. I think they're all important (obviously) since that's what got me away from the cult and made me more religious. I didn't used to go too regularly until that experience with Scn - ironically (or not) that turned me very religious.
    The main key to free a person from this cult is compassion. This is true of all cults, but it is especially true of Scientology, where, in the upper echelons, there isn't even any pretense of compassion. Showing compassion just might be the key to breaking through the person's cult identity and reaching the real person.

    ***Monica Pignotti - My Nine Lives in Scientology***
    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/pignotti/

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  3. #32

    Default Re: Friendly Greetings

    Quote Originally Posted by NoName View Post
    My family went to the Yoido Assemblies of God in Korea. I still read their website a lot, but that's not the church I go to now. I don't recall speaking in tongues from when I was younger, but I was really young the last time I went to one of their services live. Still, that's the sort of thing that I probably would have remembered.

    Now I go to Foursquare church and it happens from time to time. That's been the one aspect of it that I find strange, so I'm glad they place less emphasis on it. When I went to the local (American) Assembly of God, they seemed to do it more. That's why I ended up at the Foursquare - smaller group, more diverse, younger, and less obsessed with the tongues.

    I speak from my experience with the congregations near me in Maryland, though - my observation may or may not apply to the respective movements as a whole.

    I recently read that the American Pentacostal movement is getting away from speaking in tongues, which is a relief, because when I compared notes with my Aunt who lives in Seoul (talking about religion following my cult shock), my opinion became that American Pentacostal denominations focused on speaking in tongues to the exclusion of other gifts of the spirit. I think they're all important (obviously) since that's what got me away from the cult and made me more religious. I didn't used to go too regularly until that experience with Scn - ironically (or not) that turned me very religious.
    I used to do it. I have no idea what I was doing though. It's not quite the same as just making something up - like if you're trying to think up a word. I also wouldn't fall down when people prayed for me, because I refused to fake it, although one time I was thrown back across the room like electricity and lay there twitching for ages afterwards. It's the only time the quaker thing ever happened to me and it felt, well, awful.
    "Of course, now the worst kind of a trap of all, of course, i...is...is a...a beautiful woman. Uh...- that's a theta trap we all know. That this...that this is the worst type, the most deadly, but uh...again that's just a trap."

    PDC-9: Anatomy of Processing - Energy Phenomena/Sensation
    L. Ron Hubbard

    "Jesus Christ was liberal and lefty." ~ La La Lou Lou

  4. #33

    Default Re: Friendly Greetings

    Oh wow, so many replies! How nice! The computer is running a bit slow, so I don't dare try to reply with quotes. I'll just say a big thanks to everyone for all the information and the very kind welcome.


    Probably I should explain a little further why I've been using the term "religion" and why it seems I'm looking at it as something that has two sides.

    First, I say religion simply because Scientology is considered a religion in the U.S. and it's easier to say than "a system of beliefs and practices which may or may not be spiritual in nature"...which is more my personal idea of it. Also, I don't know how many practicing Scientologists consider it to be their religious belief, but if they do, I at least want to be respectful of that. (as I said before - as a Buddhist in Texas, I know how frustrating it can be when one's beliefs are misunderstood).

    That said, I am familiar with the corporate web and the religious cloaking issue, as well as Mr. Lerma's well-informed writing on the subject. I do understand that calling it a religion allows fair wages to be kept out of Sea Org worker's pockets, among many other vile things. I don't understand why it can't be a religion that doesn't do any harm. (I know there are strong opinions about that here, too - this is another thing I'm hoping to learn.)

    Secondly, my aim isn't to say Scientologists are bad people or anything like that. Not at all. It's really what HPM1999 said. I have a great deal of compassion for those inside. However, if they are inside, then I assume that they stand with the official church position. Even if they were offered a way out, they might feel unable or unwilling to go. Hence there are two sides - even if both sides may ultimately end up suffering the same.

    The official church position, though, is one that gives me some real trouble.


    Hopefully, that makes some sense. Now I must get some sleep or I'll be useless in the morning!

    PS Paul, thanks for the advice, and NoName, I'm really glad your Deity spoke to you when you needed it.

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  6. #34
    Summa Cum Laude aegerprimo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Friendly Greetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamlin View Post
    <snip>That said, I am familiar with the corporate web and the religious cloaking issue, as well as Mr. Lerma's well-informed writing on the subject. I do understand that calling it a religion allows fair wages to be kept out of Sea Org worker's pockets, among many other vile things. <snip>
    It would be outstanding for you to share your knowledge in this area! Even though I was in the Sea Org (a long time ago) the structure and complexity of the religious cloaking was hidden from those who were (are) in. Only recently, because of LOTS of reading, I am barely starting to understand how the Co$ corporate structure works, and how it is legally under the guise of a religion.
    "...There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened..." - Douglas Adams (Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

    Scientology Through The Door - my interview (#316)


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  8. #35

    Default Re: Friendly Greetings

    Quote Originally Posted by aegerprimo View Post
    It would be outstanding for you to share your knowledge in this area! Even though I was in the Sea Org (a long time ago) the structure and complexity of the religious cloaking was hidden from those who were (are) in. Only recently, because of LOTS of reading, I am barely starting to understand how the Co$ corporate structure works, and how it is legally under the guise of a religion.
    Here's a link:
    http://www.lermanet.com/scientologyn...irs-030997.htm

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  10. #36
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    Default Re: Friendly Greetings

    Quote Originally Posted by NoName View Post
    My family went to the Yoido Assemblies of God in Korea. I still read their website a lot, but that's not the church I go to now. I don't recall speaking in tongues from when I was younger, but I was really young the last time I went to one of their services live. Still, that's the sort of thing that I probably would have remembered.

    Now I go to Foursquare church and it happens from time to time. That's been the one aspect of it that I find strange, so I'm glad they place less emphasis on it. When I went to the local (American) Assembly of God, they seemed to do it more. That's why I ended up at the Foursquare - smaller group, more diverse, younger, and less obsessed with the tongues.

    I speak from my experience with the congregations near me in Maryland, though - my observation may or may not apply to the respective movements as a whole.

    I recently read that the American Pentacostal movement is getting away from speaking in tongues, which is a relief, because when I compared notes with my Aunt who lives in Seoul (talking about religion following my cult shock), my opinion became that American Pentacostal denominations focused on speaking in tongues to the exclusion of other gifts of the spirit. I think they're all important (obviously) since that's what got me away from the cult and made me more religious. I didn't used to go too regularly until that experience with Scn - ironically (or not) that turned me very religious.
    I do remember as a child visiting my mum's family in the States-and taking a trip to the West. Aside from the overwhelming scale of the States which did make such an impression on me- was the sheer number and types of churches. I remember being in Phoenix (this in late 1980s) and driving down one of these six lane local roads- large signs every few feet advertising everything from Groceries to Petrol (Actually GAs which my siblings and I viewed with hilarity), to Pawning, to strip clubs to one church after another all of some (to me anyway) obscure sect (but also including Catholic). Now I just read in this posts of two I have not heard of Assemblies of God and Four Square (there is a Baptist church near my town in England but it is very small).

    I think the States are a freewheeling marketplace of churches and religion. This probably explains why so many strange sociological cults are able to take root- and stay off they radar (at least until the explode or create a giant scandal).
    Last edited by hpm1999; 16th September 2013 at 03:53 PM. Reason: grammer
    "Life is the cruelest teacher; first she gives the test, then teaches the lesson." Leonard Bernstein

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  12. #37
    Gold Meritorious Patron Udarnik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Friendly Greetings

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm1999 View Post
    I do remember as a child visiting my mum's family in the States-and taking a trip to the West. Aside from the overwhelming scale of the States which did make such an impression on me- was the sheer number and types of churches. I remember being in Phoenix (this in late 1980s) and driving down one of these six lane local roads- large signs every few feet advertising everything from Groceries to Petrol (Actually GAs which my siblings and I viewed with hilarity), to Pawning, to strip clubs to one church after another all of some (to me anyway) obscure sect (but also including Catholic). Now I just read in this posts of two I have not heard of Assemblies of God and Four Square (there is a Baptist church near my town in England but it is very small).

    I think the States are a freewheeling marketplace of churches and religion. This probably explains why so many strange sociological cults are able to take root- and stay off they radar (at least until the explode or create a giant scandal).
    You lot exported your worst religious nutcases over here.

    But you kept enough of them to run Joseph Priestly out on a rail for expressing doubts about the whole business...

    And if you have not heard of the Church of God, the Assemblies of God, and other Pentecostal denominations, they are not all nutcases. But if you dig deep enough, you have a lotta lulz ahead of you...

    Imagine, if you will, a load of horseshit. And we’re not talking just your average load of horseshit; no, we’re talking colossal load of horseshit. An epic load of horseshit. The kind of load of horseshit that has accreted over decades and has developed its own sort of ecosystem, from the flyblown chunks at the perimeter, down into the heated and decomposing center, generating explosive levels of methane as bacteria feast merrily on vintage, liquified crap... -- John Scalzi

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  14. #38
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    Default Re: Friendly Greetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Udarnik View Post
    You lot exported your worst religious nutcases over here.

    But you kept enough of them to run Joseph Priestly out on a rail for expressing doubts about the whole business...

    And if you have not heard of the Church of God, the Assemblies of God, and other Pentecostal denominations, they are not all nutcases. But if you dig deep enough, you have a lotta lulz ahead of you...

    Holy Christ- this is as batshit crazy (A Yank Term I have grown to love) as anything in CO$.

    BTW even though I do poke fun at my "unsophisticated Yank cousins" I think Americans have the best cursing vocabulary on the planet. These swear words and expletives simply roll off your tongues in the most interesting manner. One of my American co-workers (expatting here) has a saying when surprised "Fuck me upside down" and when offended will say (Transliteration)-"The dumb sunufabeetch". It took me a moment to understand that dumb- means stupid and "sunufabeetch" was son of a bitch. But a most effective insult I must say. Just does not seem to have the same affect when I say "Oh you dumb son of a bitch" with a Yorkshire accent...
    "Life is the cruelest teacher; first she gives the test, then teaches the lesson." Leonard Bernstein

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  16. #39
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    Default Re: Friendly Greetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Udarnik View Post
    You lot exported your worst religious nutcases over here.

    But you kept enough of them to run Joseph Priestly out on a rail for expressing doubts about the whole business...

    And if you have not heard of the Church of God, the Assemblies of God, and other Pentecostal denominations, they are not all nutcases. But if you dig deep enough, you have a lotta lulz ahead of you...

    interesting few episodes of Justified in last season dealt with a preacher who handled snakes ... he did not make it through the whole series

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    Default Re: Friendly Greetings

    You say, "Also, I don't know how many practicing Scientologists consider it to be their religious belief"

    I'll give you my opinion on this: None consider it their religious belief. Every Scientologist, if he has read KSW (and every Scnist has read KSW) considers it as a technology. They also consider it as a practical philosophy.

    Any thought that it might be a religion comes after these two ideas. Thinking otherwise would be a high crime as it would violate KSW. I think any Scnist who has read HCO PL Religion knows that the religious angle is used for protection.

    Ironically, the only Scnists who really think of it as a "religion" are the ex-Scnists who see it as a cult, not a technology nor a practical philosophy.
    Last edited by xemnu; 16th September 2013 at 11:28 PM.

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