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Thread: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

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    Default Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    So I managed to get in to the GAT release event and I am curious about some things dear leader said regarding the whole 'lost tech' thing. He blames the 'lost tech' on lazy folk, knuckleheads and SPs. For example, the BTBs. He said that some BTBs were written by people other than dear founder without his knowledge, others were written by others on the orders of dear founder, and others were hcobs that somehow became BTBs. Apparently dear found found out about the BTBs (that some were written without his consent, and that some should be hcobs) and ordered a project to go through them all and cancel the ones that should not have been written, clean up the ones he had written, and reissue the ones that should have been hcobs, as such. Apparently this project was full of the aforementioned knuckle heads and lazy folk, and they just ended up cancelling all of them.

    So here is the question for the old timers, what really happened?

    Here's my theory. Many years ago DM screwed everything up with the intention of making money, by making crap take super long which makes people need to by many intensives, etc. He finally realized the whales are tapped out, so he is now "discovering lost technology" that makes everything faster, apparently the goal being to make a new set of whales. What he doesn't realize is the word is out, and the predicted mass influx isn't likely to materialize.

    So yeah, really interested to hear from some folks that have insider info about the "loosing" of the "lost tech".

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    Crusader Bea Kiddo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Carmichael View Post
    So I managed to get in to the GAT release event and I am curious about some things dear leader said regarding the whole 'lost tech' thing. He blames the 'lost tech' on lazy folk, knuckleheads and SPs. For example, the BTBs. He said that some BTBs were written by people other than dear founder without his knowledge, others were written by others on the orders of dear founder, and others were hcobs that somehow became BTBs. Apparently dear found found out about the BTBs (that some were written without his consent, and that some should be hcobs) and ordered a project to go through them all and cancel the ones that should not have been written, clean up the ones he had written, and reissue the ones that should have been hcobs, as such. Apparently this project was full of the aforementioned knuckle heads and lazy folk, and they just ended up cancelling all of them.

    So here is the question for the old timers, what really happened?

    Here's my theory. Many years ago DM screwed everything up with the intention of making money, by making crap take super long which makes people need to by many intensives, etc. He finally realized the whales are tapped out, so he is now "discovering lost technology" that makes everything faster, apparently the goal being to make a new set of whales. What he doesn't realize is the word is out, and the predicted mass influx isn't likely to materialize.

    So yeah, really interested to hear from some folks that have insider info about the "loosing" of the "lost tech".
    I don't at all mean to be snide, but after I read this, my first question is "which time?" (respectfully).

    DM re-released the tech volumes in 1991, saying that all non-LRH BTB's were no longer in them. This was a huge relief to know that the tech volumes were now pure LRH only.

    I am sure there were earlier evolutions too. Back when LRH was around. So there are different times that different things happened on the same thing.

    I find it hard to believe that people in Scn can't see through this crap.

    Well, some can. And welcome aboard!!!

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    Patron with Honors FlunkYou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    What's really sad about all of this, regardless of all the times the Wheezing Dwarf has hacked and reassembled the tech, is that Scner's are taught to take responsibility for their own conditions. If they F up, they are required to make amends for their mistakes. Not ONCE has the church ever stepped up on one of these "so-and-so left out bla-bla-bla - we've now fixed it and it's the best thing ever" stories and made amends. "Here, you can re-do ________ for FREE because when we delivered it to you originally, it was incorrect."

    I don't see how any "free thinking" individual can sit through these BS stories and not come to the same conclusion.

    I also scratch my head at all the "straight up and vertical" stats even though the tech has been found incorrect now, what? 3 times since the old man croaked?

    I often wonder if Wheezy came out with a long lost "hump a chicken" rundown, how many of these sheep would actually do it.

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    Gold Meritorious Patron WildKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    DM is only doing what Hubbard would be doing if he were still around - keep coming up with something new or something different that will "finally bring planetary clearing within reach!"

    The only thing that makes Scn "work" is the hope for change or hope for something better. That's all that was offered from the git-go (from the Dissem "ruin-finding" drill forward) and that's all that keeps it going now: HOPE.

    I don't care what any OT level anyone is at, they're still hoping for the next level that will make it appear that Hubbard was not a liar and that will keep them safe from the horrible reality that they've actually just wasted their lives.

    Since hope is a quantity that it seems we never run out of, this Shell Game can keep going on for a VERY long time.

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    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Quote Originally Posted by Bea Kiddo View Post
    I don't at all mean to be snide, but after I read this, my first question is "which time?" (respectfully).

    DM re-released the tech volumes in 1991, saying that all non-LRH BTB's were no longer in them. This was a huge relief to know that the tech volumes were now pure LRH only.

    I am sure there were earlier evolutions too. Back when LRH was around. So there are different times that different things happened on the same thing.

    I find it hard to believe that people in Scn can't see through this crap.

    Well, some can. And welcome aboard!!!

    "which time?"

    same here.

    I left in the late 90s, and at that time there was a new re-release of the ProTRs Course at least 4 times in 10 years.
    "We're so sad we're getting old it made us restless. I'm so mad I'm getting old it makes me reckless."
    Adele - When We Were Young





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    Patron with Honors FlunkYou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Quote Originally Posted by WildKat View Post
    DM is only doing what Hubbard would be doing if he were still around - keep coming up with something new or something different that will "finally bring planetary clearing within reach!"

    The only thing that makes Scn "work" is the hope for change or hope for something better. That's all that was offered from the git-go (from the Dissem "ruin-finding" drill forward) and that's all that keeps it going now: HOPE.

    I don't care what any OT level anyone is at, they're still hoping for the next level that will make it appear that Hubbard was not a liar and that will keep them safe from the horrible reality that they've actually just wasted their lives.

    Since hope is a quantity that it seems we never run out of, this Shell Game can keep going on for a VERY long time.
    That's true...it's always that next step on the bridge that will help. Even though you look back and realize not one of the previous steps handled _____, the handle must be on the next step. Selling hope at a profit as a non-profit religion.

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    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Why doesn't anyone ever say Dox or STFU?

    Everywhere in the modern world there is neglect, the need to be recognized, which is not satisfied. Art is a way of recognizing oneself, which is why it will always be modern. (Louise Bourgeois)

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    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Maybe you should start a little further back. Like uhmm winter 50-51 where others helped Elcon redraft I think it was 'Evolution of a Science' published 'in Astounding Science Fiction' changing his terms to what were in "DMSMH''. I am not remembering who was in that editorial/drafting group in New Jersey. Not even sure if it was the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation or a preceeding editorial/drafting board.

    However I am inclined to think that tracking the variants of a con, which changed into a fraud, which changed into spiced up plagiarism, and then twisted with a coyly maniacal narcissistic purpose isn't of any real benefit. A rose, con, bullshit hyperbole by any other name....But each to his own.

    I do understand that throughout the years and decades there were honest, sincere participants attempting to develop a beneficial science of the mind and spirit, but given the milieu largely under the domination of a perhaps left_side_magik tainted self proclaimed 'Source', I would be careful to parse the input/output rather carefully and frequently ask to who's benefit has it all worked out?

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    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Quote Originally Posted by dchoiceisalwaysrs View Post
    Maybe you should start a little further back. Like uhmm winter 50-51 where others helped Elcon redraft I think it was 'Evolution of a Science' published 'in Astounding Science Fiction' changing his terms to what were in "DMSMH''. I am not remembering who was in that editorial/drafting group in New Jersey. Not even sure if it was the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation or a preceeding editorial/drafting board.

    However I am inclined to think that tracking the variants of a con, which changed into a fraud, which changed into spiced up plagiarism, and then twisted with a coyly maniacal narcissistic purpose isn't of any real benefit. A rose, con, bullshit hyperbole by any other name....But each to his own.

    I do understand that throughout the years and decades there were honest, sincere participants attempting to develop a beneficial science of the mind and spirit, but given the milieu largely under the domination of a perhaps left_side_magik tainted self proclaimed 'Source', I would be careful to parse the input/output rather carefully and frequently ask to who's benefit has it all worked out?
    The first editorial board included Campbell, and IIRC, Heinlein.
    Imagine, if you will, a load of horseshit. And we’re not talking just your average load of horseshit; no, we’re talking colossal load of horseshit. An epic load of horseshit. The kind of load of horseshit that has accreted over decades and has developed its own sort of ecosystem, from the flyblown chunks at the perimeter, down into the heated and decomposing center, generating explosive levels of methane as bacteria feast merrily on vintage, liquified crap... -- John Scalzi

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    Silver Meritorious Patron ILove2Lurk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    ...
    Excerpted from My Experiences with LRH
    by Julie Mayo

    Speaking of authorship. That was another situation that I had to deal with as CS 4. The truth was that lots of the tech was not authored by Hubbard. In fact, one of the things I did as LRH's technical aide was write bulletins, HCOBs. If it was important, it had to bear LRH's name, because that was the way the religion was set up. I didn't like the system much for several reasons. The first was I thought people should know who actually wrote the bulletins. Secondly, the system was set up that if something went wrong, or if Hubbard wanted to change something, he could save face and blame it on someone else. "The mice have been gnawing at the pillars again... ." I reached a compromise with Hubbard: if I wrote a bulletin, it would be "Assisted by". That didn't always work, though, because if it was an important bulletin, it wouldn't do to have it assisted by someone else.

    One of the first orders I got from Hubbard was that I was to cancel everything the last two CS 4s had ever written. It was an impossible task because I would have just canceled out the grade chart. What was clear to me from this order, was that there were a line of fall guys before me. It would be just a matter of time before, I too, would be the "who" and have my work canceled.

    As CS 4, I had various projects done and had several people working for me at different times. LRH had written Technical Correction Roundup in 1976 or '77 which called for a great deal of writing and compilation. The Expanded Dianetic project was a particular nightmare -- for many reasons. The first was that a lot of the work that had been done on it originally was by Allan Gilbertson. LRH decided that Allan Gilbertson was a squirrel, so he wanted the EX DN course done again, using only LRH material. (LRH loved the idea that if there was something wrong with the tech, it was because someone else messed it up.) The problem was that Expanded Dianetics really wasn't fully researched to start with, and there were no, or few, successful case histories. I remember getting a nudge from him concerning what was taking the re-write so long. I told him that the project of re-writing the case histories was incomplete. Much to my embarrassment, Hubbard took what I said out of context and wrote an HCOB saying that Training and Services Aide had found the why on Expanded Dianetics-- the case histories hadn't been fully written up. The real problem was Expanded Dianetics wasn't completely researched -- something I believe LRH really didn't want to think about at the time.

    Sifting through HCOBs and canceling "out tech" ones or ones written by "other people" was something that went on constantly. The "out tech" HCOBs were then corrected by a project and the HCOBs written by that project would be sifted through a few years later and canceled as out tech. In 1974, there was a project done by Molly and another girl, FMO ___. They were supposed to change bulletins into BTBs that hadn't been written by LRH. But the important ones were all retained as HCOBs whether they were written by Hubbard or not. In compliance to the LRH order to me to cancel everything written by Livingston and Shafron, I had stacks of bulletins put together with their CSWs. The problem was, what to revise them to? I couldn't just cancel important bulletins which described technical processes for no reason. Most of them had been ordered written by LRH, and even though he had ordered them canceled, he would have been furious if they were canceled with no replacement. Finally, I asked Shafron to go through his stack and let me know if he thought anything needed to be revised, which he did graciously. He found a few that he thought needed to be updated so I sent them over to David Mayo to check and if he agreed, up to LRH Pers Comm for approval. Sometimes they went to Hubbard, but mostly LRH didn't look at stuff like that.

    http://www.freezone.org/reports/e_jmayo.htm

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