Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 38

Thread: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

  1. #11
    Gold Meritorious Sponsor HelluvaHoax!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    21,406

    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Quote Originally Posted by FlunkYou View Post
    What's really sad about all of this, regardless of all the times the Wheezing Dwarf has hacked and reassembled the tech, is that Scner's are taught to take responsibility for their own conditions. If they F up, they are required to make amends for their mistakes. Not ONCE has the church ever stepped up on one of these "so-and-so left out bla-bla-bla - we've now fixed it and it's the best thing ever" stories and made amends. "Here, you can re-do ________ for FREE because when we delivered it to you originally, it was incorrect."

    I don't see how any "free thinking" individual can sit through these BS stories and not come to the same conclusion.

    I also scratch my head at all the "straight up and vertical" stats even though the tech has been found incorrect now, what? 3 times since the old man croaked?

    I often wonder if Wheezy came out with a long lost "hump a chicken" rundown, how many of these sheep would actually do it.

    All of them. Except it wouldn't be described thusly--it would be named:

    The 5th Dynamic In-Point/Out-Point Rundown
    ________________________

    Scientology literally saved my life! Without Ron's books I would have frozen to death!!! (see avatar)

    Scientology in one word? HelluvaHoax!

    I never felt as free as when I freed myself from "Total Freedom".

    For offended Scientologists reading this blasphemy about L. Ron Hubbard---my apologies for talking about real life without lying to you, like Scientology, with goo-goo theta-talk. I know you don't have a floating needle right now. You're not supposed to.

  2. Likes Idle Morgue liked this post
  3. #12
    Gold Meritorious Patron
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,830

    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Quote Originally Posted by Udarnik View Post
    The first editorial board included Campbell, and IIRC, Heinlein.
    This not the exact written material that I had alluded to, but it relates.

    From Jon Atack's book " A Piece of Blue Sky" ( not sure which version)

    Chapter One, Building the Bridge

    ......................Among those brought into the Hubbard circle by Campbell was Joseph Winter, M.D., who had written medical articles for Astounding. Winter wanted to break down the mystique surrounding medicine. He specialized in endocrinology, and had tried to modify behavior with hormones, in experiments at the University of Illinois. Hubbard was later to claim that he had himself been involved in such experiments at Oak Knoll Hospital. An early letter to Winter, written in July 1949, shows Campbell's enthusiasm for the new subject:

    With cooperation from some institutions, some psychiatrists, he [Hubbard] has worked on all types of cases. Institutionalized schizophrenics, apathies, manics, depressives, perverts, stuttering, neuroses - in all nearly 1,000 cases .... He doesn't have proper statistics .... He has cured every patient he worked. He has cured ulcers, arthritis, asthma.

    Winter wrote to Hubbard asking for more information about Dianetics. Hubbard replied that he was writing a technical paper and in the fall of 1949 sent a treatise on "Abnormal Dianetics" to Dr. Winter, who was so impressed that he gave copies to two colleagues in Chicago. Winter was disappointed when his colleagues pointed to the shortcomings of Dianetics without first trying it out.

    Winter visited Hubbard in Bay Head in October 1949, later saying he "became immersed in a life of Dianetics and very little else." By January 1950, Winter had closed his medical practice in Michigan and moved to New Jersey.

    Winter, Campbell, Hubbard and Don Rogers, an electrical engineer, worked together refining techniques and coining a new language to voice Hubbard's ideas. Hubbard was probably the major contributor to these discussions, and certainly the final arbiter. Winter submitted papers to the Journals of the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Association. The papers were rejected, because of a lack of clinical experimentation, or indeed of any substantiation. The Bay Head group then decided to publish the therapy in Astounding Science Fiction, and by January 1950, Hubbard had prepared an article, a modified version of which later became the book Dianetics: The Evolution of a Science. Unbeknownst to his co-workers, while they were refining Hubbard's cure-all, he was still trying to obtain a naval disability retirement to augment his Veterans Administration award.

    ...........................Arthur Ceppos, the head of a medical and psychiatric textbook publishing company, joined the Bay Head circle, and commissioned a manual on Dianetics. In April 1950, the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation (HDRF) was incorporated to answer the many inquiries generated by Campbell's editorials. Hubbard, his wife Sara, Campbell, Winter, Ceppos, Don Rogers, and lawyer Parker C. Morgan made up the Board of Directors. The HDRF had its headquarters in Elizabeth, New Jersey, not far from New York City.

  4. Thanks Out-Ethics, Ogsonofgroo says "thank you" for this post
  5. #13
    Gold Meritorious Sponsor HelluvaHoax!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    21,406

    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Quote Originally Posted by ILove2Lurk View Post
    ...
    Excerpted from My Experiences with LRH
    by Julie Mayo

    Speaking of authorship. That was another situation that I had to deal with as CS 4. The truth was that lots of the tech was not authored by Hubbard. In fact, one of the things I did as LRH's technical aide was write bulletins, HCOBs. If it was important, it had to bear LRH's name, because that was the way the religion was set up. I didn't like the system much for several reasons. The first was I thought people should know who actually wrote the bulletins. Secondly, the system was set up that if something went wrong, or if Hubbard wanted to change something, he could save face and blame it on someone else. "The mice have been gnawing at the pillars again... ." I reached a compromise with Hubbard: if I wrote a bulletin, it would be "Assisted by". That didn't always work, though, because if it was an important bulletin, it wouldn't do to have it assisted by someone else.

    One of the first orders I got from Hubbard was that I was to cancel everything the last two CS 4s had ever written. It was an impossible task because I would have just canceled out the grade chart. What was clear to me from this order, was that there were a line of fall guys before me. It would be just a matter of time before, I too, would be the "who" and have my work canceled.

    As CS 4, I had various projects done and had several people working for me at different times. LRH had written Technical Correction Roundup in 1976 or '77 which called for a great deal of writing and compilation. The Expanded Dianetic project was a particular nightmare -- for many reasons. The first was that a lot of the work that had been done on it originally was by Allan Gilbertson. LRH decided that Allan Gilbertson was a squirrel, so he wanted the EX DN course done again, using only LRH material. (LRH loved the idea that if there was something wrong with the tech, it was because someone else messed it up.) The problem was that Expanded Dianetics really wasn't fully researched to start with, and there were no, or few, successful case histories. I remember getting a nudge from him concerning what was taking the re-write so long. I told him that the project of re-writing the case histories was incomplete. Much to my embarrassment, Hubbard took what I said out of context and wrote an HCOB saying that Training and Services Aide had found the why on Expanded Dianetics-- the case histories hadn't been fully written up. The real problem was Expanded Dianetics wasn't completely researched -- something I believe LRH really didn't want to think about at the time.

    Sifting through HCOBs and canceling "out tech" ones or ones written by "other people" was something that went on constantly. The "out tech" HCOBs were then corrected by a project and the HCOBs written by that project would be sifted through a few years later and canceled as out tech. In 1974, there was a project done by Molly and another girl, FMO ___. They were supposed to change bulletins into BTBs that hadn't been written by LRH. But the important ones were all retained as HCOBs whether they were written by Hubbard or not. In compliance to the LRH order to me to cancel everything written by Livingston and Shafron, I had stacks of bulletins put together with their CSWs. The problem was, what to revise them to? I couldn't just cancel important bulletins which described technical processes for no reason. Most of them had been ordered written by LRH, and even though he had ordered them canceled, he would have been furious if they were canceled with no replacement. Finally, I asked Shafron to go through his stack and let me know if he thought anything needed to be revised, which he did graciously. He found a few that he thought needed to be updated so I sent them over to David Mayo to check and if he agreed, up to LRH Pers Comm for approval. Sometimes they went to Hubbard, but mostly LRH didn't look at stuff like that.
    That is the long awaited punchline to the joke that is KSW.

    A historically very significant document!

    Hubbard "didn't look at stuff like" the tech! LOL.

    But, meanwhile, all Scientologists were fanatically and repetitively studying the holiest of the Founder's scripture, KSW, while believing wholeheartedly in its standardly sacred purity. Little did they know that their eternity rested not in the divine hands of a singular OT savior, but instead in the persons of a succession of flubby, overwhelmed and delusional hoax victims just like themselves.

    Scientology: The religion where only dunces are awarded certificates.
    ________________________

    Scientology literally saved my life! Without Ron's books I would have frozen to death!!! (see avatar)

    Scientology in one word? HelluvaHoax!

    I never felt as free as when I freed myself from "Total Freedom".

    For offended Scientologists reading this blasphemy about L. Ron Hubbard---my apologies for talking about real life without lying to you, like Scientology, with goo-goo theta-talk. I know you don't have a floating needle right now. You're not supposed to.

  6. Thanks In present time, TG1 says "thank you" for this post
  7. #14
    Silver Meritorious Patron BardoThodol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,401

    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    It's nice to have a little someone-to-blame on hand.

    Why just yesterday I ran out and had to borrow some from my neighbor.

    My wife and I were having an argument, and lo and behold, I checked my mental pantry and discovered I was a bit short for my favorite recipe of Scapegoat Almondine (mmmmm, delicious.)

    Because our neighbors are always prepared, I rushed over, cadged a cup of culpability and voila! I was right back in the kitchen, mixing up a delectable batch of savory It's their fault sauce that got me out of the hot seat.

    Like they say, "if you can't stand the heat, send in someone else to burn at the stake."

  8. #15
    Patron with Honors Gus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Western US
    Posts
    324

    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    IIRC, it was He Who Must Not Be Named, Chairman of the Board Religious Technology Center Mr. David Miscavige who cancelled the BTBs and thus "Lost the Tech." With an "atomic branding-iron," so He said.

    I don't think He mentioned that at His little shindig, when He announced that He discovered all that "lost tech." He's the one who lost it! What an asshole.

    -Gus
    "If confessionals are never violated, what's Tommy doing talking about my sex life?"

    -Amy Scobee

  9. Thanks Out-Ethics, guanoloco, Idle Morgue, Ogsonofgroo says "thank you" for this post
    LOL! In present time laughed at this post
  10. #16
    Gold Meritorious Patron Idle Morgue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,538

    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Quote Originally Posted by WildKat View Post
    DM is only doing what Hubbard would be doing if he were still around - keep coming up with something new or something different that will "finally bring planetary clearing within reach!"

    The only thing that makes Scn "work" is the hope for change or hope for something better. That's all that was offered from the git-go (from the Dissem "ruin-finding" drill forward) and that's all that keeps it going now: HOPE.

    I don't care what any OT level anyone is at, they're still hoping for the next level that will make it appear that Hubbard was not a liar and that will keep them safe from the horrible reality that they've actually just wasted their lives.

    Since hope is a quantity that it seems we never run out of, this Shell Game can keep going on for a VERY long time.
    Exactly - Scientolgy $ells HOPE and as long as people keep buying it...Scientology Work$!! Of course - trapping them in with threats of "disconnection and Man's only hope..." surely helps $cientology work!

  11. #17
    Gold Meritorious Patron clamicide's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    3,044

    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Carmichael View Post
    So I managed to get in to the GAT release event and I am curious about some things dear leader said regarding the whole 'lost tech' thing. He blames the 'lost tech' on lazy folk, knuckleheads and SPs. For example, the BTBs. He said that some BTBs were written by people other than dear founder without his knowledge, others were written by others on the orders of dear founder, and others were hcobs that somehow became BTBs. Apparently dear found found out about the BTBs (that some were written without his consent, and that some should be hcobs) and ordered a project to go through them all and cancel the ones that should not have been written, clean up the ones he had written, and reissue the ones that should have been hcobs, as such. Apparently this project was full of the aforementioned knuckle heads and lazy folk, and they just ended up cancelling all of them.

    So here is the question for the old timers, what really happened?

    Here's my theory. Many years ago DM screwed everything up with the intention of making money, by making crap take super long which makes people need to by many intensives, etc. He finally realized the whales are tapped out, so he is now "discovering lost technology" that makes everything faster, apparently the goal being to make a new set of whales. What he doesn't realize is the word is out, and the predicted mass influx isn't likely to materialize.

    So yeah, really interested to hear from some folks that have insider info about the "loosing" of the "lost tech".
    This isn't really a reply, but since you actually did see the event, could you give an actual rundown on what you saw? Much of the info I've seen is second-hand and I'd really appreciate a breakdown from someone who witnessed the thing.
    I don't recognize you--I've changed a lot. Oscar Wilde

    "I used to have a lot of faith in humanity before the advent of the website 'comment' section" -- Jim Gaffigan

    I joined a religion started by a science fiction writer that used a double cross as its symbol, and then they tried to sell me a bridge.....what could have possibly gone wrong?

    We are soldiers of life against these artificial minds. From "The Enemy" by Tramontane.

  12. Likes TG1 liked this post
  13. #18
    Gold Meritorious Patron clamicide's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    3,044

    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Quote Originally Posted by FlunkYou View Post
    What's really sad about all of this, regardless of all the times the Wheezing Dwarf has hacked and reassembled the tech, is that Scner's are taught to take responsibility for their own conditions. If they F up, they are required to make amends for their mistakes. Not ONCE has the church ever stepped up on one of these "so-and-so left out bla-bla-bla - we've now fixed it and it's the best thing ever" stories and made amends. "Here, you can re-do ________ for FREE because when we delivered it to you originally, it was incorrect."

    I don't see how any "free thinking" individual can sit through these BS stories and not come to the same conclusion.

    I also scratch my head at all the "straight up and vertical" stats even though the tech has been found incorrect now, what? 3 times since the old man croaked?

    I often wonder if Wheezy came out with a long lost "hump a chicken" rundown, how many of these sheep would actually do it.
    Too true. I remember when I was just fucked up and hating life while on staff. The Senior C/S said something about how there must have been a lot of out-tech on my case (as in, I got fucked-up auditing, or whatever). She said she understood, but what had "I DONE TO PULL THAT IN"? Just ugh.
    I don't recognize you--I've changed a lot. Oscar Wilde

    "I used to have a lot of faith in humanity before the advent of the website 'comment' section" -- Jim Gaffigan

    I joined a religion started by a science fiction writer that used a double cross as its symbol, and then they tried to sell me a bridge.....what could have possibly gone wrong?

    We are soldiers of life against these artificial minds. From "The Enemy" by Tramontane.

  14. #19

    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    IIRC, it was He Who Must Not Be Named, Chairman of the Board Religious Technology Center Mr. David Miscavige who cancelled the BTBs and thus "Lost the Tech." With an "atomic branding-iron," so He said.

    I don't think He mentioned that at His little shindig, when He announced that He discovered all that "lost tech." He's the one who lost it! What an asshole.

    -Gus

    THis is what I was thinking, I could have sworn I heard that as part of gat 1, he cancelled a bunch or all or something. Or was it earlier?

  15. #20

    Default Re: Need input from an old timer regarding DMs claims

    Quote Originally Posted by clamicide View Post
    This isn't really a reply, but since you actually did see the event, could you give an actual rundown on what you saw? Much of the info I've seen is second-hand and I'd really appreciate a breakdown from someone who witnessed the thing.

    Of course!

    Let's see what I can remember. I spent most of the time talking to myself, "Are they really buying this crap? How many times can he stand up there and resell the same polished turd, and they think it's the greatest thing since talking to an ashtray?"

    So the main idea was that many years ago, some bad people cancelled and/or changed a bunch of BTBs, which in turn altered the future of the universe. So mighty mouse came to rescue and personally reviewed every BTB, all the notes and hand-written comments, etc. from ron and used critical thinking to decide which BTBs should be un-cancelled, etc.

    He also kept going on about "eliminating economic barriers" and so apparently everything is cheaper now, and most things are quicker to finish.

    Here are some of the "re-discovered" things:

    (Note: they piloted all the rediscovered stuff on 500 folks and got some average times, which I will try to remember and note)

    1. The correct EP for the purif is supposed to be the person takes 5000mg of Niacin with no reaction. They also found some people were gaining weight on the purif. The "why" given was the 'All Blend' oil that is available today is nothing like the stuff back in the 60s, and the vitamins today are crap. So they revamped the whole purif thing, now they have a company that makes all the vitamins & oil, and all the orgs have to buy from the churches international supply depot thing. They also have standard uniforms (shirts, shorts, bag, flip flops) that you wear on the purif. Average
    Time is 23 days to finish.

    2. Happiness rundown is back on the bridge, but is not mandatory.

    3. There is another one, maybe called the Survival Rundown?, anyway, it is on there as well, after the Happiness RD (I think) and is also voluntary.

    4. Objectives. There are now over 300 objectives processes (I guess there was 15 or so). Apparently ron delegated the task to someone to go through all the lectures and stuff to put together the Objectives, but the silly knuckle heads on the project stopped at 15. So now there are over 300, but you donít have to do them all, I think you just go until you are properly hypnotized, I mean HAVE A WIN!!. They also recommend co-auditing the objectives, so you don't get charged auditing time. Average time to complete is around 150 hours.

    5. Grades. There was something about each grade has a "Major Process" and a bunch of un-major ones (never done grades, sorry). Anyway, so I guess people were being attested to grades completion without doing the major process for the grade level, and I guess that is why all the OTs are dying from cancer. Ok he didn't say that, but he intimated that the case cannot be fully handled if the major process for each grade is not run. He was then saying something about on grade 4 that ser facs were only being half handled. I guess a serfac is supposed to be audited with grades processes, then with NED, before it is fully handled. But some evil monkey stripped the NED processes out of grade 4, so people would finish grade 4 with their ser facs only half handled. Apparently that is bad. So, now the NED processes have been put back into grade 4, so the awesome product of "A robotic being, with no personality or free will" has been achieved. Average time to finish all grades is 70 to 90 hours, or about a month.

    I think that was it on the processing side. I didn't see most of the second part of the event, which went over the training side. Apparently the student hat and emeter courses have had a bunch stripped out, so are much faster to finish. There was something about the student tapes; When ron told someone to make the student hat course, he said to take these certain lectures from the BC lectures, strip out all the fancy auditing stuff, and make those the student hat tapes, but once again the evil monkeys screwed everything up and didn't remove all the super fancy auditor stuff. So now that is all gone, making the course a lot faster. Average time to finish is like 10 hours, or somewhere in there.

    The emeter course had some drills removed. Oh, and the solo course has a bunch of drills removed, so it is quicker now too.

    Some other stuff:

    Every grade chart level has a picture book to tell the PC what is happening.

    Reges have a new tool - Indoctrination videos. When someone gets herded to the reg after finishing something (and before the buzz wears off), they are put in a room and shown a video about what the next level is. Apparently these make you want to buy it.

    Um... Oh, the penalty for talking about super power is expulsion. DM quote, "I would love to tell you about super power, but the penalty for doing so is expulsion, and I don't want to get expelled..."

    Wow I recalled more than I thought, I wonder if I am clear? Well I hope that gives you a bit of an idea about what was involved. If I remember anything else, I will post it.

  16. Thanks Type4_PTS, JBWriter, In present time, Out-Ethics, phenomanon and 5 others says "thank you" for this post
    Likes In present time liked this post
    LOL! TG1 laughed at this post
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. NEW - Old-timer Jacki Edwards speaking out.
    By xenusdad in forum Stories From Inside Scientology
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 4th April 2013, 12:42 AM
  2. Introduction of a new old timer apostate
    By Tarvuist in forum New Member Introductions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 3rd March 2012, 02:26 PM
  3. Need some input on this...
    By Krautfag in forum Office of Special Affairs
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 6th November 2010, 11:38 PM
  4. An Old Timer Newbie
    By TalleyWhacker in forum New Member Introductions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 17th August 2009, 01:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •