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Thread: Ask Kate your questions here...

  1. #21
    Cabal Of One Panda Termint's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ask Kate your questions here...

    Quote Originally Posted by kate8024 View Post
    I have not left the church. Outside of extension courses all of my Scientology practice has been outside of the church but to the extent that I've even been 'in', I'm still in.
    The CofS has always had non-participating Fringe Dwellers who thought of themselves as scientologists. Back in the 70s most people just humored them when they made an appearance, these days they're, for the most part, persona non grata.

    Kate, Forgive me if you've already answered this but are you actually a paid-up (as in IAS Membership) Member of the CofS or do you think of yourself as part of that group?
    Dave Gibbons - Sydney, Australia.
    I don't believe everything I read on the Internet.
    I do believe everything I write.

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  3. #22
    Goldenrod SP ThetanExterior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ask Kate your questions here...

    Quote Originally Posted by kate8024 View Post
    Well for one thing, all of the things you described wouldn't stop someone from being an independent Scientologist which is a specialization of the class 'Scientologist' in my book so to call oneself a Scientologist does not necessarily imply the things you mention. While I'm on good terms with the Church of Scientology in that they bug the living sh-- out of me with phone calls and emails and I do extension courses with them I don't look to them for validation and especially I don't look to them for auditing - thus Ethics is 100% a non-issue. I can have an Ethics folder a meter thick and it doesn't affect me at all. So far I've not run into any problems and if I ever do its no real loss; I mean I might not get to finish my extension courses but that not something I would shed a tear over.

    If you can come up with a better name for the set of beliefs I outlined in my earlier post in this thread I'm all ears but IMHO Scientologist describes it fairly well.
    Well, here's my opinion on the situation.

    The people in the CofS don't consider you a Scientologist. To them you are "Mrs. Patty Cake". This is LRH's term for what you are doing.

    Now, the CofS is instructed by LRH to turn Mrs. Patty Cake into a dedicated Scientologist but the problem in your case is that you seem to be somewhat remote from an org and therefore they can't get at you. Therefore you have a somewhat blinkered view of what being a Scientologist means. If you were to go into an org then you would be subjected to the gang bang regging, sec checks and all of the nasty things you have heard about and you would either have to become a "real" Scientologist or else you would be kicked out and probably be declared a suppressive person.

    Currently you are not an independant Scientologist because you are affiliated with the Cofs and you are not a CofS Scientologist because you are just being Mrs. Patty Cake.

    Therefore, I still don't see how the term "Scientologist" refers to you. As for a different term, well I don't know if there is one. You seem to be a seeker of knowledge with an interest in many different areas of spirituality, not just Scientology, so why label yourself as anything in particular?

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  5. #23
    Crusader Gadfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ask Kate your questions here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Panda Termint View Post
    The CofS has always had non-participating Fringe Dwellers who thought of themselves as scientologists. Back in the 70s most people just humored them when they made an appearance, these days they're, for the most part, persona non grata.

    Kate, Forgive me if you've already answered this but are you actually a paid-up (as in IAS Membership) Member of the CofS or do you think of yourself as part of that group?
    If a person pays the IAS membership, and continues to do so, no matter what he or she calls him or herself, he or she is directly supporting and funding OSA, and the endless litany of obnoxious lawyers, attacks on innocent people, media lying, PR capers, intel capers, noisy investigations, deceit, manipulation, and on and on. The purpose of the IAS, no matter how they mince words, is to protect and defend CORPORATE SCIENTOLOGY!

    Within the context of ALL Hubbard's instructions and orders, the "Scientology religion" IS "corporate Scientology". That is obvious and clear if one simply reads the lists of suppressive acts without bias. To Hubbard, he made it entirely clear that "Scientology" equaled "corporate Scientology" and "the Church of Scientology". Of course, many FZers and fringe types tend to ignore that fact.

    If a person keeps up on the IAS membership, then whether this person is a "fringe dweller" or not is moot - he or she DIRECTLY funds the nastiest side of the subject and practices of Scientology. At some point ones purported ideas must align with behavior (hopefully, ideally).

    Oh, that's right, the poor sucker didn't know anything about what OSA was "really doing" - that is ignorance by choice, which is a common state of many Scientologists (for example, they are ordered to, and then comply with NOT viewing and learning from any "critical entheta" on the Internet). This is self-imposed ignorance by coercion and by personal agreement to conform to the orders of the "authorities" (Hubturd, DM, INT management, Sea Org, policy, etc.).
    Last edited by Gadfly; 22nd February 2014 at 04:58 PM.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

    "They must know how to kindle and fan an extravagant hope". - Eric Hoffer about the "true believer". "Total Freedom", "your eternity", and "OT" involve a few of the extravagant hopes in Scientology.

    Go HERE to view and/or download the essay, "The Three Basic Scientology Beliefs".

  6. #24
    Silver Meritorious Patron MissWog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ask Kate your questions here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post
    If a person pays the IAS membership, and continues to do so, no matter what he or she calls him or herself, he or she is directly supporting and funding OSA, and the endless litany of obnoxious lawyers, attacks on innocent people, media lying, PR capers, intel capers, noisy investigations, deceit, manipulation, and on and on.

    If a person keeps up on the IAS membership, then whether this person is a "fringe dweller" or not is moot - he or she DIRECTLY funds the nastiest side of the subject and practices of Scientology. At some point ones purported ideas must align with behavior (hopefully, ideally).
    Do they let people stay on course if they don't join the IAS? I thought to be active, in anyway, it was required to be a current member. I'm not talking about buying a book but taking a course or receiving auditing or processing..I also assume if you don't buy an IAS membership you will get sent to ethics before you can do anything course or processing related to work on your case. I'm sure they will sell a book or lecture to anyone, IAS member or not.

  7. #25
    Crusader Gadfly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ask Kate your questions here...

    Quote Originally Posted by MissWog View Post
    Do they let people stay on course if they don't join the IAS? I thought to be active, in anyway, it was required to be a current member. I'm not talking about buying a book but taking a course or receiving auditing or processing..I also assume if you don't buy an IAS membership you will get sent to ethics before you can do anything course or processing related to work on your case. I'm sure they will sell a book or lecture to anyone, IAS member or not.
    I don't know (doubt) if that applies to "extension courses". But, if you are going into the "Org", as far as I know, yes, you MUST have an IAS membership.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

    "They must know how to kindle and fan an extravagant hope". - Eric Hoffer about the "true believer". "Total Freedom", "your eternity", and "OT" involve a few of the extravagant hopes in Scientology.

    Go HERE to view and/or download the essay, "The Three Basic Scientology Beliefs".

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  9. #26

    Default Re: Ask Kate your questions here...

    I thought of a word to describe this tricky situation, well two or three.

    Hava Nagila ("Let us rejoice") is atraditional song that has become a staple of band performers at Jewish weddings and Bar Mitzvahs.
    In my meatball Yiddish the translation is half a nagila. The words go


    “Half a nagila, half a nagila, half a nagila, Is better than no nagila at all…”

    Half a Scientologist is better than no Scientology at all?

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  11. #27

    Default Re: Ask Kate your questions here...

    Quote Originally Posted by l whip View Post

    Half a Scientologist is better than no Scientology at all?
    Seriously?

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  13. #28
    Silver Meritorious Patron MissWog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ask Kate your questions here...

    Dianetics, "clear", "ot", etc. are to me more or less meaningless or useless concepts.]
    Then you are not a Scientologist and using that label only causes confusion and can be detrimental to those lurking who only see "I find Scientology useful" without the fact that this usefulness doesn't include the biggest parts of Scientology.

    To me this is like saying "I'm a Christian but I don't believe Jesus was the messiah"

    that _something_ genocide-like happened on the whole track which LRH interpreted as the Xenu myth but I don't believe his interpretation to be quite correct.
    To me this is like saying "I'm a Muslim but I don't think Mohammed was THE Prophet" LRH was was/is Source, how can you say his interpretation of his own writings were incorrect? He wrote it and all this shit has only been going down in the last 64yrs.. There is no question that he is Source.

    We can question who wrote the Koran and the Bible..but we have Hubbs on tape and video, this modern day. It's like saying my own interpretation of this post that I am writing is wrong at this minute is wrong. You might and others might interpret what I am writing to be not quite correct but I am the one writing it, there is no question it is my fingers on the keyboard. I am the author and Hubbard is the author of Scientology, he might have had assistance but he is the author.

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  15. #29

    Default Re: Ask Kate your questions here...

    Quote Originally Posted by kate8024 View Post
    And that's certainly a reasonable question I think. I'm certainly not trying to start a cult lol but I personally believe that many of the negative aspects belong to the Church of Scientology and not the associated belief system, especially when one focuses on the mystical religious aspects of it. To some extent here I've run into this problem both ways - when I first started posting I was pretty much a panentheist who was dabbling in idie Scientology then I moved away from the Scientology label but more and more of my beliefs were aligning with Scientology toward the beliefs I hold now but then I would get tons of messages about me being a secret Scientologist and people could tell based on my posts and so I must be OSA and so on.

    I've felt very damned if I do, damned if I don't on this board at times. If I say I'm a Scientologist I get crap because I don't believe everything LRH says. If I say I'm not a Scientologist I get crap (and accused of being an OSA spy) because I believe that some things in Scientology have value. If I say I'm an idie then I get mega crap for even talking to the church (which I guess I get anyway).

    I can understand to some extent the way some people here feel, I'm a professional software engineer and I work on some pretty hard core things like neural network theory and huge applications in C++ and sometimes I meet someone who makes static HTML pages for local businesses and calls themselves a software engineer. Obviously I'm in a different class than them and there is a tendency to say "well he's not a _real_ software engineer." I feel that to some extent that's happening here - people see someone who only self-audits on the fringes of the CofS without getting very involved in the actual church culture and I must not be a 'real' Scientologist. Unfortunately in both of these cases labels fail and there isn't always a good alternative.

    If you have a solution to the damned if I do damned if I don't problem please let me know.
    Be true to yourself and damn the torpedos.

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  17. #30
    Gold Meritorious Patron EP - Ethics Particle's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Ask Kate your questions here...

    There's a double meaning in that!?

    Much Ado About Nothing!
    "Chastise the scoundrels, unmask the charlatans, and tutor the unschooled mob."

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