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Thread: Marty's Excalibur published: all human knowledge distilled into one sentence.

  1. #11
    Gold Meritorious Patron anonomog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty's Excalibur published: all human knowledge distilled into one sentence.

    I'm interested in his journey out. It has been quite fascinating from true believer to now. But I need waaaay too much energy to wade through the words so I have mostly given up.



    "The fault is fatal to the accomplishment of the truth each of the routes purports to lead to. It is incident to the attempted monopolization of the truth."
    I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters. Solomon Short

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Marty's Excalibur published: all human knowledge distilled into one sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    Reading his "musings" made my head hurt.

    Attachment 9025
    Yah, me too. He really should take some classes to learn to write in his native language. Unless, of course, his writing is fine but it's his thinking that is so muddled.

    Quote Originally Posted by anonomog View Post
    I need waaaay too much energy to wade through the words so I have mostly given up.



    "The fault is fatal to the accomplishment of the truth each of the routes purports to lead to. It is incident to the attempted monopolization of the truth."
    Marty, this edit is on me:

    Marty says:

    "The fault is fatal to the accomplishment of the truth each of the routes purports to lead to. It is incident to the attempted monopolization of the truth."

    JustSheila's edit:
    Every route we take claims to lead to the truth. The fatal flaw of each of these is the attempted monopolization of truth. While each route bears some clarity or insight, none possess absolute knowledge.

    How's that, Marty?

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  5. #13
    Gold Meritorious Patron anonomog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty's Excalibur published: all human knowledge distilled into one sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSheila View Post

    JustSheila's edit:
    [/I]Every route we take claims to lead to the truth. The fatal flaw of each of these is the attempted monopolization of truth. While each route bears some clarity or insight, none possess absolute knowledge.

    How's that, Marty?

    hehe
    I'll take a stab at it too...

    " 'We are what we think' is a truth. It shouldn't be sold."
    I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters. Solomon Short

  6. #14
    Silver Meritorious Patron mockingbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty's Excalibur published: all human knowledge distilled into one sentence.

    Um , not to burst anyone's bubble but the concept of thought influencing thought and feeling and behavior is very , very old . Probably older than any civilization with writing we would recognize. And I mean things conventional science would consider validated by a body of evidence - no ancient aliens needed . Go home Xenu , I will not need your help for this , say hi to ET for me . David Icke stay away . Look the difference between mysticism and superstition with unbound imagination and skepticism and scientific method and critical thinking is the idea of proof and judgement and questioning rationally . Plainly it is a hypnotic command similar to the truth is what is true for you to say you are what you think . I have seen Buddha , Lao Tzu , Marcus Aurelius and many , many others express imperfectly the idea that one may influence their own mind and emotions through thought . It is discussed in Trances People Live, a book Jon Atack recommended to me to give a simple explanation on how hypnosis works .

    I am writing a thread on that very book to be released soon . It also has a therapy which Jon and I both do not recommend and advise staying away from as it has problems attendant to many hypnotic practices , namely transference related issues for one . But that does not diminish the clear simple definitions and plentiful examples of elements from hypnotism it contains and I recommend it to anyone with a mind . There is an idea that our thoughts and decisions can impact our thoughts and decisions simply put we as individuals influence our own minds . But where Marty and I are many , many continents apart is that unlimited general broad description of you actually being what you think . I see it as there actually is a physical universe that I am an infinitely small part of and it has dominion in truth over me . If by luck my body is afforded the exact right tiny , tiny range of heat and pressure and gravity and many other factors I can survive in I will for a very tiny amount of time live . Most old philosophers use metaphors that imply or state thought is boss which is an unproven claim despite many attempts.

    However fields such as psychology , hypnosis and neuroscience explore the claim thought and action may to a limited degree some of the time for some people under certain conditions have some degree of influence on thought but not actual existence . The changes or effects this could create are at the mercy of a very real physical universe that trumps delusions of any kind . In the mind that may be denied , which is hiding it from the conscious mind via deception by the subconscious - in theory .

    Also by dissociation which is separating off , here is a definition from the following link :Dissociation is a mental process that causes a lack of connection in a person’s thoughts, memory and sense of identity. Dissociation seems to fall on a continuum of severity. Mild dissociation would be like daydreaming, getting “lost” in a book, or when you are driving down a familiar stretch of road and realize that you do not remember the last several miles. A severe and more chronic form of dissociation is seen in the disorder Dissociative Identity Disorder, once called Multiple Personality Disorder, and other Dissociative Disorders.End quote


    http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/c...tive-disorders

    Now not all self influence is negative , a person may decide to recognize triggering events and then change behaviors and thoughts repeatedly honestly for improvement and establish new and better habits for them in theory . There are many theories and efforts on this - some report good results others do not and some frankly are harmful . You have to do a lot of homework the deeper you want to go with this in my opinion .

    But a lot of these efforts , particularly ones that have withstood scientific scrutiny and critical examination all to me have one thing in common .
    They have models that lack magical thinking and see definite limits on influence , even if they strive to define these limits. They are within a range that is so limited that Marty's statement is , if understood in its meaning and implication , rejected as far too broad and actually the near total opposite of any accepted model or theory . Look , we are whatever we are not what we think or imagine or pretend . That is an unproven assertion that relies on no evidence and a divorce from critical thinking .

    If that lone post has the entirety of Marty's idea then it is neither original at all or ever shown to be true or even sensible . Many people have certainty that they are good and God or karma will not let bad happen to them . They know it and are beyond optimistic that life is fair and just , no exceptions . Many of those people suffer horribly and become disabused of such notions . I am certainly one , several times over . I am not saying there is no God - I could never prove or disprove that . I am saying people who state " You are what you think. " are wrong . I am a man with properties beyond my control and that is changed only in very limited ways to very , very slight degrees by being fortunate enough to catch the right breaks to make theses severely limited and often temporary changes . There are many other examples of people thinking they are one thing and despite total conviction utterly failing to show it to any one else ever.

    He does not bring up limits on this and in fact states workable technologies had this idea . Well , last time I checked I have yet to see any of these workable technologies ever .His statement has in my opinion , sublime rhetoric in order to convince the audience of several claims with no proof and poor circular arguments that a high school debate student could destroy easily .

    He tries to just drop the statement that workable technologies not only could exist but have several times and that by indirectly moving on with lofty promises use an appeal to emotion fallacy in place of proof . Totally unproven claim . He further lists in overly complex language to imply authority several concepts from religions to trigger the victim's er audience's imagination to fill in blanks , something Hubbard often did - so the audience imagines parts of the story and thinks the ideas are conclusions not suggestions .

    So , he makes these claims with no proof but some puff and he goes on to talk . He then uses very complex , redundant explanations with little meaning if you take out loaded language to state there are methods to this gain or state he never proved at all and he of course knows them and the underlying common denominator they have . No proof , but boy he claims to know about every religion and mental practice for a long , long time and be sure he knows what works and how ...
    seems familiar somehow.

    I will now try to list overly complex or loaded or redund
    ant terms he uses in place of sound or really any argument to support his ideas other than appeal to emotion and fallacies and circular arguments dressed up in confusing language and loaded language as I see none :
    fundamental, sweeping, succinctly, aphorism, workable, groveling , self-realized , nirvana , enlightenment, Kingdom of God , glimpses of this truth have abounded , simple truth , ecclesiastics , inestimable , purports, proprietorship, ceases or prohibits attainment or realization, obtains, anathema to truth, salutary effects that spring from it.

    He asserts something is fundamental meaning basic and important meaning just accept it since he said it is important .
    He says sweeping meaning it covers a lot of stuff , more than you will get at first , so just accept the degree to which you can get it . This also implies he is smarter than you since he already gets it or at least is more of an authority on this subject so defer to him if unsure which you may be if you do not know all these flowery words he uses . Next succinctly clearly and shortly and implies it is right as well . Now aphorism a short statement of a general truth , if he came out and just kept saying this is true instead of using words that contain the idea over and over it would be clearer he has claims with nothing behind them besides accept that I say it !

    Now the kicker , he knows he will lose some here and keep others - do you accept claims or workable technology with no proof or not ? Remember his audience has indies , exes and others who might still hope for something like this and he wants to persuade them , folks like me are out of his grasp and he knows to leave us behind . We would be far too much trouble . Groveling ? really this is to appeal to emotions of superiority and shame and trigger these to replace reason in evaluating his unproven claims . Self realized , Nirvana , enlightenment , Kingdom of God well these are to confuse you about what exactly he is saying and make you think it is real and complex and validated by earlier beliefs and practices and a kind of mystery with too broad a definition to get but he knows , so if I hope for this he is the authority on it . The glimpses of this truth tries to misdirect you to wonder and imagine the glimpses and not see you are accepting the truth as valid . Abounded ? fancy way to - without saying by who or when that this mystery you imagine and hopefully by now are seeing and feeling vividly - say it was all over but you know you have not found the common denominator even though it is all over so Marty must see it better and be the authority to listen to . Simple truth ? he uses vague emotional double talk so it is not simple or even coherent so the simple is to boost his authority and distract from the truth which is still not proven at all . Ecclesiastics ? Fancy redundant way to say priests and clergy ? So you think he is smart . Inestimable , again to trigger your imagination back to the size of the delusion you visualize vividly er I mean claim he presents for examination . Purports , the cult loves this word as it has a claim of falseness said in a fancy way so it must be true ! You were smart enough to say purport , like a lawyer who reads books and stuff ! Golly Mr Marty ! You sure is smart ! Proprietorship , ownership and control but very fancy way to say it , and leads you to wonder why he used this fancy word ? Hidden meaning ? Next a trick Hubbard loved two very close words together then two more and they are all fancy to confuse and imply authority of the smart writer man ! It means stop or hold back getting or figuring out , but that is too dumb dumb for smarty . Obtains ? Another Hubbard trick , use a usual word in a very unusual way to impress and confuse , remember " since " in KSW ? as in " we have long since passed the point ..." ? same idea . anathema to truth , boy that is an old rhetorical device to say something is totally false beyond any doubt with no proof other than the claimant asserting it with total certainty and big words , so they are smart and right since they are smart . Salutary ? Beneficial and spring ? are naturally and purely caused by something - again no proof but great for an already active imagination er delusion .

    I do not know what Marty intends or why . I do know this is so like Hubbard's work to me it is as if someone intentionally or otherwise is emulating Hubbard . Troubling .

    This is written for someone who holds out magical thinking as valid , or wants to go back to it if disaffected with Miscavige or even Hubbard - they may hope for a leader or practice and this one is claimed to be the opposite of Hubbard's . Like when Hubbard warns us of implanters and enslavers and how only he rose above it all . Marty is here to save us from all the guys who claim to save us so he is different ! If we know very little about manipulation and cons .

    I am very sorry Hubbard lied and many of us are damaged and addicted to trances and euphoria and experiences from Scientology and delusions . I am trying to accept not being elite , not knowing the meaning of life , not having super powers or immortality or having dissociation fully handled , not being a world saver or knowing the secrets of the universe , but I will tell you I am human and plan to within that live the life I have and try to be decent , and not perfect and try to enjoy the good things that actually are and especially the good people I am lucky enough to have in my life .

    Look , you can follow Marty or anybody else but please , please learn about rhetoric and fallacies and critical thinking too , maybe even hypnotism or totalism ?. You can just come back and tell me I was wrong after , and say it in smart sounding ways !

    What real paradise could they have that cannot stand logic , knowledge of manipulation and trance states and critical examination ? A pretty flimsy heaven if you ask me . But hey its your life and mind , enjoy it .
    Last edited by mockingbird; 3rd January 2015 at 10:33 AM.
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    NOTE: If I do not respond to posts it may or may not be intentional , I try to be considerate but am not here as a doormat . If someone attacks me or is rude I simply add to ignore .

  7. #15

    Default Re: Marty's Excalibur published: all human knowledge distilled into one sentence.

    Vinnie's take on it

    vinaire | January 2, 2015 at 6:35 pm

    I just finished reading the last in the series of Harry Potter books (The Deathly Hallows). I was surprised to find deep philosophy about death in it. Death seems to appear to one the way one thinks about it.

    Apparently, that is how other things appear to one as well. And that is how one becomes too. I loved the thinking of Harry Potter. What a pure soul!
    ~ Mary McConnell, my nom de plume
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  9. #16
    Silver Meritorious Patron Little David's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty's Excalibur published: all human knowledge distilled into one sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSheila View Post
    Yah, me too. He really should take some classes to learn to write in his native language. Unless, of course, his writing is fine but it's his thinking that is so muddled.


    ................
    Mostly the latter. His writing seems mendacious, pretentious and narcissistic to me and he lacks the intelligence to hide it much.
    Last edited by Little David; 4th January 2015 at 02:17 AM.

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  11. #17
    Spokeshole, fence sitter Claire Swazey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty's Excalibur published: all human knowledge distilled into one sentence.

    I don't want a copy.

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  13. #18

    Default Re: Marty's Excalibur published: all human knowledge distilled into one sentence.



    Oh Claire, you so caught me by surprise with that one. You are so funny, I nearly missed my chair sitting down.

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  15. #19

    Default Re: Marty's Excalibur published: all human knowledge distilled into one sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by ILove2Lurk View Post
    . . .
    To be doubly fair, Hubbard didn't come up with his "Excalibur moment" on his own either.

    Its basic premise was lifted from other earlier philosophers, AFAIK.

    Or if you prefer . . . gleaned from that repository of all knowledge with the golden gates that he
    traveled to in spirit form during his 1938 operation.

    Hence, the humorous irony that many ESMB readers will appreciate.

    I thought it had been established that Hubtub's "Excalibur moment" came from a visit to the Dentist...and Nitrous Oxide....(laughing gas?) His thinking he was going to die.....at the Dentist.........and writing this experience up? (over several days...and lots and lots of coffee)


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