Why is the bridge to freedom so expensive?

[lrnobs]

No, the problem was "YOU BELIEVED".

If you didn't find the tech useful, why did YOU persist in it?

What part of "if it's not true for you, then it's not true" did you fail to understand?

Yes, I believed but also, yes, he said he could do all this OT stuff. You don't get to see if the confidential stuff is "true for you" until you get all the way to the OT levels, as it was... confidential. A lot of the lower level stuff "works" as it has for centuries. So, it was an easy logic leap, at least for me that if the lower level stuff is true then the OT stuff must also be true.

Hubbard clearly "PRed" & over-hyped bigtime and much of what he said was flatly untrue.

I realize "lie" is a stronger word but I feel it is appropriate and accurate.

But PERSONALLY I consider that if what you wanted from scientology tech were superpowers then "the more fool you".

Me and thousands of my closest friends, I mean fools.

To me, if it takes them to OT VIII to figure out what scientology tech was actually GOOD FOR then they couldn't be all that "swift" nor "OT".

Hay, I kin reed and writ, n I have comprension too. I red whut he writ.

[Hanover Fist]

Well, truth to tell, many of those things DO occasionally happen during scientology auditing. They may not represent full "powers" or completely "stable" abilities. But such things definitely occur for individuals, nor do you have to be on "upper levels" to have the phenomena.

I've experienced such phenomena myself on several occasions, as have many others I know.

Mark A. Baker

I suggest you claim your $1,000,000 then:

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

Hanover Fist

[Free to shine]

Such gains appear to be at best "hit & miss". However, VALUABLE STABLE GAINS are there to be had with regard to expanding insight, awareness, responsibility & compassion for others.

That's the sort of REAL OT POWERS that scientology auditing can reliably deliver. The other stuff is just "parlor tricks".


No, the problem was "YOU BELIEVED".

If you didn't find the tech useful, why did YOU persist in it?

What part of "if it's not true for you, then it's not true" did you fail to understand?

But PERSONALLY I consider that if what you wanted from scientology tech were superpowers then "the more fool you".

Well, different strokes for different folks.

To me, if it takes them to OT VIII to figure out what scientology tech was actually GOOD FOR then they couldn't be all that "swift" nor "OT".

Correction, Duckie, YOU CHOSE to believe.

Hubbard often played fast & loose with facts, BUT it was YOUR choice to take his word rather than relying on your own understanding.

This is what you seek in a "spiritual practice" is it?

ONLY those who seek to be led (i.e. "easily gulled"). {SO especially.}

I have personally known MANY scientologists who did not "totally believe". Not surprisingly, they have tended to have a ready appreciation for the actual benefits of scientology tech as they experienced it and little trouble on choosing to leave the Co$ when asked to compromise their own realities.

Speak for yourself, Duckie.

Why do you think "politics" has such a bad rep? Damn few "ordinary" people are willing to do the hard work to actually find out facts & THINK things through for themselves.


Mark A. Baker

Your arrogant and patronising attitude indicates severe tunnel vision and NO "expanding insight, awareness, responsibility & compassion for others" that I can see.

[Alanzo]

Hi Mark -

I'm exploring some of those very questions you ask in my blog.

See my sig line below.

[MarkWI]

If Hubbard's original gradation chart was true and you could have out of body experiences at will with full perceptics, have mind over matter power, have perfect telepathic powers, heal your body of diseases, you know, complete power over matter, energy, space, and time, both objective and subjective then it WOULD be priceless. The problem is HE LIED, HE LIED.

He didn't have those powers. The public that have traveled all the way up to OT VII and OT VIII don't have these powers. By the way did I say HE LIED.

Those still in think that those at the top have these powers and those at the top aren't talking. Many OT VIIs and VIIIs went to the top found out HE LIED and are out of there!

Now I believe that people have real experiences of out of body movement, telepathy, psychic phenomena, and spiritual contact. They have this without religion, with religion, with meditation, with car accidents, and other stuff we have heard about.

I believe that some of these 6th senses can be enhanced, maybe through prayer, eastern religions, or the freezone, but not like Hubbard made us believe. No one is going to be levitating coins or knowing the lottery numbers any time soon.

But Hubbard said he had the road map all layed out for everyone. Done. Finished. No more discovery needed. All you have to do is travel it. And yes you have to write a lot of checks, or dedicate your life to the Sea Org.

For any non Scn people reading this, this is the hook. Scn public, staff members, and Sea Org believe this is absolutely attainable and totally believe that Hubbard has it layed out. They don't want to entertain the thought that their dream might not be true. This is why it is so hard to get out of the mindset. If you leave there is no other place on earth where you can get these GUARANTEED OT Powers. The problem is that he lied, expertly, and we believed him.

Good post!

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

Anyone want a new game?



The seven Steps of Man

(1) The Primary Life

1.Primary development of the intellect and the spirit.

2.Primary thinking of the intellect and the spirit.

3.Primary thinking of reason.

4.Primary exercise of the intellect and the spiritual force.

5.Primary reasonable actions.

6.Primary will causing thinking and action.

7.Beginning of reasoning in life.

Creatures on those levels are thought to be insane or idiots whose spirit and intellect is still not spiritually developed. (a new spirit who, by learning and experience, first, has to form himself)



(2) Reasoned Life

1.Primary development of reason.

2.Effective realization of reason and its use.

3.Primary acknowledgment and cognition of higher influences.

4.Belief of higher influences without owning knowledge.

5.Belief of higher forces. Superstition, fear of evil, veneration of good etc.

6.Primary recognition of the true reality. Research and development of real knowledge. The first spiritual cognitions and their use. Spiritual curing, telepathy etc.

7.Primary development of knowledge and wisdom. The present position of the average Earth human being is within this category at around the 6th level.

(3) Intellect Life

1. High development of the intellect. High technology, second utilization of spiritual forces. Primary creation of living forms.

2. Realization and exercise of knowledge, truth and wisdom. Slow break-up of acceptances of belief.

3. First utilization of knowledge and wisdom.

4. Acknowledgment and utilization of Natures Laws, generation of hyper-technology, secondary creation of living forms.

5. Natural exercise of wisdom and knowledge, in cognition of spiritual forces.

6. Life of knowing, wisdom, truth and logic.

7. Primary cognition of true reality as real absolute.



The present position of educated Earth human being, scientist etc. would be around three on this scale. A few border and spiritual scientists would be at level seven.

(4) Real Life

1. Clear knowing about the true reality as real absolute.

2. Cognition of spiritual knowledge and spiritual wisdom.

3. Utilization of spiritual knowledge and spiritual wisdom.

4. Cognition of true reality of Creation and her laws.

5. Living within Creational Laws. Purification of the spirit and the intellect. Cognition of the true obligation force of the spirit. Complete breakdown of acceptance of belief.

6. Aimed and controlled utilization of spiritual forces.

7. First ability to create living creatures. Billy is at level five.



(5) Creational Life

1. Creating and controlling living forms.

2. Construction of machine/apparatural livable creatures.

3. Spiritual development of forces for control of organic forms of life.

4. Will conditioned to master life and all of its sorts and forms.

5. Position of recognition, reminiscence of earlier lives etc.

6. Kingdom of wisdom's - ISHWISH (IHWH). Next to the last highest power and knowledge.

7. Cognition of spiritual peace, of universal love and Creational harmony.

The Pleiadians are in this area.





(6) Spiritual Life

1. Acknowledgment and realization of spiritual peace, universal love and Creational harmony.

2. Living in pure spiritual forms.

3. Spiritual creations.

4. Disembodiment of spirit.

5. First spiritual existence.

6. Final spiritual existence.

7. Pass over into the Creation.



(7) Creations Life

1. Twilight sleep over seven periods. (Eternity's)

2. Awaking and beginning of creating in the Creation as Creation, during seven periods or eternities.

3. Creating of living forms.

4. Creating of new spirit. Improvement of Creation.

5. Creating of spiritual greatness within the Creation.

6. Improvement of Creation in Creation.

7. Reaching of highest improvement in the seventh period.

From Semjazz

[Lynn Fountain Campbell]

I also believe that everyone has these potential abilities. How they discover them is up the individual.

Amen to that!

Lynn

[Idle Morgue]

The reason is it makes it "valuable" - this is a marketing technique - the more mysterious and expensive - the more people will want it. Works in Hollywood and Beverly Hills all the time. If they can serve a little "attitude" on top of it (like they really will ignore you and not care) it sets a trap for you wanting it even more.

I had gone to Beverly Hills for services - and could not believe some of the horrible attitudes from Service providers - hair, tailors etc. I thought it was crazy to be treated like this - but there where people lined up around the block - paying big bucks to be treated so bad - like the Soop Natzi on Seinfeld! Except the soup was good - but that good???

Also, Scientology services sells you for tons of money - that they want on account - this is the trap they set to keep you in. The Tech then will convince you that the reason you do not want to continue is because of your BANK - reactive mind - so you will continue putting up with this until you see the truth -

There is no state of CLEAR - because the cognition is:
I am mocking up my own reactive mind!

I spent so much money believing Hubbard's Dianetic's book and thinking I would get RID of it.
If I am mocking it up - why do I feel fear when I am in a dark alley - BECAUSE I could get mugged or killed!!

If I don't want to go back to Scientology - it is BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO GET KILLED!

I will continue to be mocking up my reactive mind so I can survive - thank you.

No state of Clear or Oatee - but you can buy plenty of "expensives" (intensives) and find out for yourself or you can take our word for it!! Choice is yours - LOOK! Don't think!

[programmer_guy]

IMO, the truth of this stuff will come out in further brain activity research over the next several decades.

There are such things as conscious brain activity, something we call "our self" as a SINGLE thing AND non-conscious brain activity which is MANY other parts of simultaneous brain activity.

The parts of non-conscious brain activity (and it's primitive type of "memory") is NOT directly accessible by the conscious part that we think of as "our selves"... contrary to the claims of Hubbard/Scientology.

All the parts affect each other. BUT Dianetics is a fool's game.

[Mark A. Baker]

... The parts of non-conscious brain activity (and it's primitive type of "memory") is NOT directly accessible by the conscious part that we think of as "our selves"... contrary to the claims of Hubbard/Scientology.
...

Hmm, seemed to work for Jung, Rogers, and others.


Mark A. Baker