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Thread: 1972 French report on Scientology: can you ID anyone?

  1. #11
    Patron with Honors chuckbeatty's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1972 French report on Scientology: can you ID anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    Deputy for Policy Knowledge: English accent; Looks like Peter Buttery

    He's mentioned here.

    http://www.xenu.net/entheta/entheta/.../1996-014.html
    He looked a little tall for Peter Buttery, who later in his Sea Org career went to Flag for training when I saw him.

    I thought Peter had lighter colored hair also.

    But now I recall he had streaks of gray hair, always combed long slightly over his forehead.

    And now I found this to confirm my guess about his becoming Class 12:

    "... Peter Buttery, Class 12 and OT8 was always sick, coughing up
    phlegm and spitting it out in the trashcan, almost deaf, and late to arrive
    for work...."
    from http://www.xenu.net/entheta/entheta/.../1996-014.html

    Just need to dig up one of the Class 12 photos now.
    Last edited by chuckbeatty; 23rd February 2015 at 01:06 AM.
    Chuck Beatty
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    http://www.lermanet.com/exit/quentincoroner.htm

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  3. #12
    Patron with Honors chuckbeatty's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1972 French report on Scientology: can you ID anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post
    I'll stick with Peter Buttery.

    Paul
    When Peter Buttery came to Flag in the either late 1970s or early 1980s, I thought he was shorter than the fellow on camera.

    And I thought Peter had lighter hair?
    Chuck Beatty
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    "I think a lot of my father's stuff doesn't work. So I false report whenever I need to. Personally, I think my father's crazy."
    - Quentin Hubbard Class 12 Scientologist, statement to Dennis Erlich
    http://www.lermanet.com/exit/quentincoroner.htm

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  5. #13
    Patron with Honors chuckbeatty's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1972 French report on Scientology: can you ID anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by strativarius View Post
    Peter Buttery without a doubt IMO. I worked with him for a couple of years.
    When I saw buttery, he started either going pematurely gray, and had like gray streaks in his hair and thus I could see how this could be a younger version of him then.

    I saw him either late 1970s or early 1980s at Flag, when he came for training, I think NOTs, and then stayed for years as was typical, and then I think he even became Flag staff didn't he?

    I kind of recall he somehow became a high up trained Class'd Flag auditor, did he become one of the Class 12s at Flag even, in he 1980s, early 1990s?

    In which case he'll appear in some of the Flag group photos, I recall at times the Class 12s all stand together, and even some promo pieces of the Class 12s list their names in some of the years of the promo of them.
    Chuck Beatty
    ex Sea Org (1975-2003)
    412-260-1170
    chuckbeatty77@aol.com

    "I think a lot of my father's stuff doesn't work. So I false report whenever I need to. Personally, I think my father's crazy."
    - Quentin Hubbard Class 12 Scientologist, statement to Dennis Erlich
    http://www.lermanet.com/exit/quentincoroner.htm

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    Default Re: 1972 French report on Scientology: can you ID anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckbeatty View Post
    He looked a little tall for Peter Buttery, who later in his Sea Org career went to Flag for training when I saw him.

    I thought Peter had lighter colored hair also.

    But now I recall he had streaks of gray hair, always combed long slightly over his forehead.

    And now I found this to confirm my guess about his becoming Class 12:

    "... Peter Buttery, Class 12 and OT8 was always sick, coughing up
    phlegm and spitting it out in the trashcan, almost deaf, and late to arrive
    for work...."
    from http://www.xenu.net/entheta/entheta/.../1996-014.html

    Just need to dig up one of the Class 12 photos now.
    I saw Peter in London 40+ years ago. He was then KOT. He definitely had dark hair. This St Hill photo makes him look skinnier than I
    recall. Rice and beans? We have Paul and Strat, especially the latter identifying him.

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    Squirrel Extraordinaire Dulloldfart's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1972 French report on Scientology: can you ID anyone?

    I started having second thoughts about Peter, even got out of bed to post about it, and that was before reading the posts from Chuck.

    Peter was London staff at the time, not coming on SH staff until later, 74 or so. The other peeps in the clip there are FOLOUK and GOWW*, apart from the choir. Donat Perbohner was GOWW, although I don't remember what he looked like. The Keeper of Tech and Policy Knowledge post was in the GO at the time, in the Services Bureau I think. Chuck can look that up!

    So maybe it was DP.

    ......

    Now I've read Jonny's article. The French sup could be Patrick DeLuz. The woman Master of Ceremonies is Sheila Massey-Hicks, from South Africa.

    The blonde woman from the first clip is possibly Eva Marinowicz. I don't know her name before she married Eddie M. I hardly knew the FOLOUK people at all.

    *EDIT: Not sure about Malcolm Nieman's org. I arrived at Saint Hill in September 1972, did a couple of months in the EPF, then came into AOSHUK in December. The CO AOSHUK was Dalene Regenass. I saw Malcolm once in the courtyard at the Stables. I don't know what post he was on when the TV crew was there. What post is "Commanding Officer of the College"? Obviously his actual post title was altered for public consumption, like the others, but what was it? Was he CO AOSHUK at the time (where a regular Class IV/V Org had/has an "Academy" a SH has a "College")? FOLOUK has a "Hubbard College of Improvement," HCI, where training was done, but it came under the 2nd Mate (Tech Sec), which I believe was Eddie Marinowicz at the time: he was the course sup while I was on the EPF.

    EDIT: On Peter Buttery's hair: it was dark and worn long [70s, not surprising], but I seem to remember he sometimes had blond highlights in it. Not kidding.

    Paul
    Last edited by Dulloldfart; 23rd February 2015 at 03:18 PM.
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    Gold Meritorious Patron scooter's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1972 French report on Scientology: can you ID anyone?

    2nd French woman (the one recruited in Australia) has been back here for a while now - Evelyn Clarke(?) - she has been heavily associated with NarCONon Nepal and various other Asian expansion efforts.

    And Peter Buttery it may be but I only remember him as a grey-haired XII C/S busted when I was at FSO for a death or three of XII PCs. That was 1988.
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    Patron with Honors Albion's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1972 French report on Scientology: can you ID anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckbeatty View Post
    When I saw buttery, he started either going pematurely gray, and had like gray streaks in his hair and thus I could see how this could be a younger version of him then.

    I saw him either late 1970s or early 1980s at Flag, when he came for training, I think NOTs, and then stayed for years as was typical, and then I think he even became Flag staff didn't he?

    I kind of recall he somehow became a high up trained Class'd Flag auditor, did he become one of the Class 12s at Flag even, in he 1980s, early 1990s?

    In which case he'll appear in some of the Flag group photos, I recall at times the Class 12s all stand together, and even some promo pieces of the Class 12s list their names in some of the years of the promo of them.
    Hi Chuck, I have one or two sources equally sure it's someone called Donat Perbohner. I need to try to track down photos of one or the other of these candidates.

    Perbohner I've not hard of, but Buttery of course crops up in the McPherson case as one of her case supervisers. Since Miscavige is generally thought to have intervened in the case, it might be that PB took the fall when things went wrong.

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    Patron with Honors Albion's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1972 French report on Scientology: can you ID anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    Last I read about Jane Kember she was doing the occasional extension course and had a son/daughter still in as the main reason for still being in.
    It seems to me she is very much a scientologist but has no use for DM.

    She is a powerful personality. I recall OTs trembling at rebutting her comments. I was once a very junior member of the London OT committee. I recall being at the rehearsal of some event at what is or was "Stringfellows" night club and David Gaiman, directing rehearsals,
    directing re Janes role " Less Lucretia Borgia ". She was an actress.
    So probably not much chance of an interview then!

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    Squirrel Extraordinaire Dulloldfart's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1972 French report on Scientology: can you ID anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
    Hi Chuck, I have one or two sources equally sure it's someone called Donat Perbohner. I need to try to track down photos of one or the other of these candidates.
    Yes, a separate pic of DP would be good. If Terril hadn't already suggested Peter Buttery I don't think I would have named him. When he turns in profile in the clip it doesn't look like Peter Buttery at all. He was a C/S at Saint Hill for years around 1980 and I saw him often (sometimes with his delicious wife, Christine).

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    Comfortably Numb strativarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1972 French report on Scientology: can you ID anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post
    Yes, a separate pic of DP would be good. If Terril hadn't already suggested Peter Buttery I don't think I would have named him. When he turns in profile in the clip it doesn't look like Peter Buttery at all. He was a C/S at Saint Hill for years around 1980 and I saw him often (sometimes with his delicious wife, Christine). Paul
    As a matter of fact I'm beginning to have my doubts too, he looks a bit too good-looking to be the late Peter Buttery. (His first wife Katie was quite a looker as well btw).

    Aamof I sent the URL of the vid to a dear friend of mine, a long-time scn'ist who worked at HSOL as well as Flag asking him to identify the individuals in the film. He could only name two, Gaiman and the second person (Aczel) I think he said - can't tell at the mo his email's on another machine. He knew Buttery v well and I'm sure he would have named him but didn't.

    The more I think about it the less I think it's PB, Buttery didn't look so slim and tall and quite so snappily-dressed.

    Edit: I just googled peter buttery images. This isn't him is it? Could be Peter O' Buttery.

    Last edited by strativarius; 23rd February 2015 at 03:31 PM.
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