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Thread: Marty Rathbun nearly murdered in 1978

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    Gold Meritorious Patron WildKat's Avatar
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    Default Marty Rathbun nearly murdered in 1978

    I don't think this story got enough notice. I was wondering about this while watching the ID profile on Marty which aired last night and which got very little discussion. The one-hour program never mentioned this little chapter in Marty's SO history.

    Anyway, when Marty was a new SO recruit in 1978 at "Big Blue" he was witness to a murder and nearly murdered himself, according to Jesse Prince's story here:

    http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirror...e/coletto.html

    He then took the gun and pointed it at Marty and started to shoot - click, click, click - no more bullets.

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    Crusader Sindy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Rathbun nearly murdered in 1978

    Nothing like a good murder to get your SO career rolling. Good lord.
    "Scientology: The only game in the universe where the rapist is your ethics officer." - HelluvaHoax

    "Yes Scientology at this point is nothing but its own funeral. You might as well leave early and beat the traffic. " - Thrak

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    Gold Meritorious Patron WildKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Rathbun nearly murdered in 1978

    You gotta wonder:

    If John Colletto had been "successful" in shooting Marty back in 1978, can you imagine how much differently the whole cult scenario might have played out? Marty had huge influence on his posts, and when auditing some of the celebs, as well as his influence as Miscavige's right-hand man for many years, as well as his impact on the whole Indie era, and all the hullabaloo that came after. I'm just saying.... he has really been a key player for decades.

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    Default Re: Marty Rathbun nearly murdered in 1978

    Quote Originally Posted by WildKat View Post
    You gotta wonder:

    If John Colletto had been "successful" in shooting Marty back in 1978, can you imagine how much differently the whole cult scenario might have played out? Marty had huge influence on his posts, and when auditing some of the celebs, as well as his influence as Miscavige's right-hand man for many years, as well as his impact on the whole Indie era, and all the hullabaloo that came after. I'm just saying.... he has really been a key player for decades.
    A big part of the virtual Scientology-puzzle is still a pile of unsorted pieces in my mind, so here's my question:

    Was Marty really a big player himself or did he just move someone else's pieces on demand? What of his actions did he really "grow all by himself in his own backyard" and what were the actions of "just another executioner"?

    Don't try to find sarcasm or irony, I honestly have these questions.
    The best things in life are free.
    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull. (W. C. Fields)
    If Scientology is a Triumph of the Will... then ESMB is a Triumph of the Won't. (HelluvaHoax)
    The most effective 'Tech' is 'Let Scientology Be Scientology (in front of witnesses)' (Zinjifar)
    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. (Unknown)

    Disclaimer: I've never been in Scientology or in any other cult; I'm just a critic.

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    Default Re: Marty Rathbun nearly murdered in 1978

    Quote Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
    A big part of the virtual Scientology-puzzle is still a pile of unsorted pieces in my mind, so here's my question:

    Was Marty really a big player himself or did he just move someone else's pieces on demand? What of his actions did he really "grow all by himself in his own backyard" and what were the actions of "just another executioner"?

    Don't try to find sarcasm or irony, I honestly have these questions.
    When I was a Case Supervisor at CC Int, and Marty came around and said "boo", we jumped. He was DM's right hand man, yes, but also on his own he directed some things. I believe he was truly made a puppet for DM, but there were matters that Marty dealt with that did not get onto DM's plate (such as the 8 month pregnant woman who tried to kill herself at CC, I was taking a bit of direction from Marty, but that had nothing to do with DM).

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    Default Re: Marty Rathbun nearly murdered in 1978

    Quote Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
    A big part of the virtual Scientology-puzzle is still a pile of unsorted pieces in my mind, so here's my question:

    Was Marty really a big player himself or did he just move someone else's pieces on demand? What of his actions did he really "grow all by himself in his own backyard" and what were the actions of "just another executioner"?

    Don't try to find sarcasm or irony, I honestly have these questions.
    Setting aside that ultimately we are all responsible for our own acts (if I kill someone after taking LSD, I'm still going to prison), I see that all acts while under the influence of Hubbard's salvage-Earth-or-you're-all-doomed game as moving someone else's pieces on demand. That's to say, Marty may have cooked up lots of plots to kill people while on LSD, so to speak, I don't know.

    I think the proof is in what the person does and becomes after leaving that influence. I would like to see Tom Cruise examine himself and his part in all of this like Marty has done. Marty has been courageous and in my opinion exceptionally so. Tom Cruise, et al have not.

    I believe Miscavige would be the same bully outside of all the cult influences (even his own mother called him Little Hitler) and therefore his own thoughts and actions naturally align with Hubbard's ideas on how to handle enemies, etc. so he rose to the top and until now, took safe haven in hiding his true nature behind Hubbard's dictates.

    Miscavige stayed and continued to torture people. Marty blew and did not. We're all capable, apparently, of some pretty nasty stuff under group-think and influenced by powerful, instilled beliefs (Stanford Prison Experiment, Milgram Experiment).

    Footnote: I would like to preemptively handle the idea that I am excusing, apologizing for, or sympathizing with Marty. This is a detached observation.
    "Scientology: The only game in the universe where the rapist is your ethics officer." - HelluvaHoax

    "Yes Scientology at this point is nothing but its own funeral. You might as well leave early and beat the traffic. " - Thrak

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    Who needs merits? MrNobody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Rathbun nearly murdered in 1978

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindy View Post
    Setting aside that ultimately we are all responsible for our own acts (if I kill someone after taking LSD, I'm still going to prison), I see that all acts while under the influence of Hubbard's salvage-Earth-or-you're-all-doomed game as moving someone else's pieces on demand. That's to say, Marty may have cooked up lots of plots to kill people while on LSD, so to speak, I don't know.

    I think the proof is in what the person does and becomes after leaving that influence. I would like to see Tom Cruise examine himself and his part in all of this like Marty has done. Marty has been courageous and in my opinion exceptionally so. Tom Cruise, et al have not.

    I believe Miscavige would be the same bully outside of all the cult influences (even his own mother called him Little Hitler) and therefore his own thoughts and actions naturally align with Hubbard's ideas on how to handle enemies, etc. so he rose to the top and until now, took safe haven in hiding his true nature behind Hubbard's dictates.

    Miscavige stayed and continued to torture people. Marty blew and did not. We're all capable, apparently, of some pretty nasty stuff under group-think and influenced by powerful, instilled beliefs (Stanford Prison Experiment, Milgram Experiment).

    Footnote: I would like to preemptively handle the idea that I am excusing, apologizing for, or sympathizing with Marty. This is a detached observation.
    Well, I believe that Marty removing pages from the baby-watch-protocol of Lisa McPherson was probably his own idea and not directly ordered by DM, but the "pink legs" quote comes to mind: "Do what's necessary, no matter how illegal it is, but make sure that I can't be held responsible for that."

    Yeah, I know, that's not what the quote says, but it's what's readable between the lines, IMO. So, when DM says "Do what's necessary" and some Scilon goes and kills some SP because of that, he's basically doin' exactly what DM ordered without him ever having ordered it.

    I believe quite a few more "pink legs" could be found in the cult if more people decided to speak out in greater detail.

    EDIT:
    IOW and IMO, there's still way too much "wiggle room" for the higher-ups in the cult.
    The best things in life are free.
    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull. (W. C. Fields)
    If Scientology is a Triumph of the Will... then ESMB is a Triumph of the Won't. (HelluvaHoax)
    The most effective 'Tech' is 'Let Scientology Be Scientology (in front of witnesses)' (Zinjifar)
    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. (Unknown)

    Disclaimer: I've never been in Scientology or in any other cult; I'm just a critic.

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    Gold Meritorious Patron WildKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marty Rathbun nearly murdered in 1978

    Quote Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
    Well, I believe that Marty removing pages from the baby-watch-protocol of Lisa McPherson was probably his own idea and not directly ordered by DM, but the "pink legs" quote comes to mind: "Do what's necessary, no matter how illegal it is, but make sure that I can't be held responsible for that."

    Yeah, I know, that's not what the quote says, but it's what's readable between the lines, IMO. So, when DM says "Do what's necessary" and some Scilon goes and kills some SP because of that, he's basically doin' exactly what DM ordered without him ever having ordered it.

    I believe quite a few more "pink legs" could be found in the cult if more people decided to speak out in greater detail.

    EDIT:
    IOW and IMO, there's still way too much "wiggle room" for the higher-ups in the cult.
    Yup...I bet we would be shocked at some of the info being kept under wraps.

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    Default Re: Marty Rathbun nearly murdered in 1978

    Quote Originally Posted by WildKat View Post
    Yup...I bet we would be shocked at some of the info being kept under wraps.
    When things get shook up for organizations which have been corrupt, including religious, political and business/financial institutions, there is often a progression of relative shock value in the things that get shook out. There is often a point where something more rotten than anything already known falls and lands in full view.

    I am wondering if that is going to happen - with the scientology shaking up that is going to continue all through 2015 and probably beyond.
    I was in a Space Alien Cult called Scientology. Scientology: the prison of belief.

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    Default Re: Marty Rathbun nearly murdered in 1978

    Mmmm... Marty's version probably has plenty of poetic license.

    Still, I was at Big Blue at the time and heard the story from my Security Guard sweetie at the time, who was on duty and witnessed what happened then.

    There are a few details Marty didn't mention.

    One is that Marty was assigned to guard Diane and pick her up and take her home because of her ex-husband's threat. He wanted to play hero though and catch John, so trolled around the block slowly trying to get John to come out, using Diane as bait. Perhaps he didn't take the threat seriously; it's not like there were a lot of shooting murders by ex-staff. Marty was indirectly responsible for Diane's death and he knows it.

    So were all the SO Members at the time in the GO and who knew about John's threat and were in a position to do something aabout it - none of these people reported the threat to the police or Joe would have been apprehended earlier. He was reported to have been staying just down the road at a local hotel. Easy for the police to catch him and disarm him, which would have saved Diane's life.

    Marty also chased after John. Jeff Porter knocked him down once to stop him. He definitely had the gun aimed at him. I didn't hear anything about it running out of bullets, I heard John turned around with Diane without shooting and Marty chased after him.

    I don't know why you'd want to give this story a lot of publicity. It's what stupid people do that take the law in their own hands and don't use the police. Marty was not a hero. Nobody was a hero that day. It was a terrible event that was so badly botched up and mishandled that two people lost their lives.
    Last edited by JustSheila; 17th April 2015 at 03:26 AM.

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