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Thread: EMDR Therapy

  1. #71
    Diamond Invictus SP Type4_PTS's Avatar
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    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by Type4_PTS View Post
    I'm not sure of the relation but there is something with eye movements in a therapy that was developed over at USF (University of South Florida) which I've heard reports of dramatic results in a very short period of time, sometimes as little as an hour.

    I've not read this particular paper, it's just some random article I found in a search, but have read other things in past directly from USF:

    Accelerated resolution therapy significantly reduces PTSD symptoms, researchers report

    <snip>
    For anyone interested, here's a post which goes into some of the similarities between EDMR therapy and ART (Accelerated Resolution Therapy):
    http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/acce...r-ptsd-0301175

    Here's an excerpt:

    What Is ART?

    ART is an eye-movement therapy. The person in therapy moves their eyes back and forth following the therapistís hand, and the therapist gives specific directions before each set of eye movements. ART draws on a number of other established and evidence-based therapies, such as cognitive behavioral theory, gestalt, and eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR). However, it is unique in being a procedurally oriented therapy. Other therapies typically focus on the content of the personís thoughts and emotions.


    Since ART is procedurally oriented, the person in therapy doesnít have to talk about what happened. This makes the approach great when working with people who may have trouble talking about their emotions, as might some individuals in the military. It also may be easier on the therapist, who doesnít have to experience secondary (vicarious) trauma as a result of hearing about terrible things.

    ART Is Said to Work Quickly
    Very rapid healing is a hallmark of accelerated resolution therapy. Many therapists trained in ART report people can heal from a single traumatic eventósuch as an auto accident, assault, or witnessing an atrocityóin as little as one session. Some therapists report healing phobias in one session as well.

    I recently watched the developer of ART, Laney Rosenzweig, heal a woman from two phobias in less than an hour. These very rapid results may seem unbelievable to someone familiar only with other therapies. Most of the evidence-based therapies for treating posttraumatic stress expect to take between 12 and 20 sessions to be effective. ART, meanwhile, has been shown to be effective in only three to five sessions in scientific studies of both military and civilian populations (Kip et al., 2012; Kip et al., 2013; Kip et al., 2014). It was even shown to be effective working with a population of homeless veterans (Kip et al., 2016). Some of them didnít complete treatment because they found jobs or housing, but despite this, a study found a success rate of over 50%.
    One consideration when choosing a therapy is how likely the person is to complete the full course of treatment. The longer a therapy takes to complete, the less likely it is the person will complete it. Because ART is such a brief treatment, more people may be likely to complete a course using this approach to healing.

    <snip>
    How ART Differs from EMDR

    Col. Charles Hoge, an Army psychiatrist who trained in both EMDR and ART, compared the two and noted 10 points of difference (Hoge, 2015). Some of the major ones are:

    • EMDR uses a variable number of eye movements, while ART uses a fixed number.
    • EMDR uses free association, while ART therapists are directive.
    • EMDR pays attention to content, whereas ART therapists focus on visual imagery and emotional sensations.
    • EMDR is content-oriented, while ART has a procedural orientation.

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  3. #72
    Diamond Invictus SP Type4_PTS's Avatar
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    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    I posted about ART (which is a cousin of EDMR) in the past on ESMB but was unable to find my previous postings. But believe this media report was part of it:




    and this one as well:




    Here's an interview with a lady who had a phobia eliminated in a one hour session using ART:

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  5. #73
    Goodby Goodluck
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    Default Re: EMDR: A New Psychological Therapy for PTSD

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSheila View Post
    Oh! Now i get you. EMDR Therapy is a legitimate style/form of Psychotherapy for PTSD and requires a trained, certified practitioner. It isn't New Age stuff. Earlier on this thread (Thank you very much, Mod, for combining this thread with the original. ) ESMB was fortunate to be joined by a retired psychologist, Dr. Patti Jane. She wrote the following:
    Sheila, thanks for setting me straight on it. I Googled it just now as well and it's definitely food for thought as well as something more legitimate for ex's to transition into and fulfill their long standing goals of finding a tech that can handle unresolved issues they may have.
    When I say food for thought it made me think "what if the supposed big bugaboo "reactive mind" was nothing more than the flip side of the brain that is not normally brought into play but during times of overwhelm it is?"
    And the thought "what if the "reactive mind" is nothing more than the uncharted 95% of the brain that one normally doesn't use?"
    I'm going to be learning more about it and can hopefully get some answers, thank you again for your thoughtful response!
    Crack cocaine and booze are gateway drugs to Scientology

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  7. #74
    Rabble Rouser Gizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    In scn perhaps the best process they ever came up with was R 2-45 ! C'mon, at least it'd been over in a hurry !

    Imagine, if only Ron had done the research on that one himself ! Look at what we'd have been spared ! !

    My biggest complaint now is that Ron didn't proof that one out on his own thick skull !

    What an opportunity got missed !
    " You can't focus on anything without attracting more of it "

    "Contradictory beliefs cancel your energy because you have a built in mental conflict between the validity of one belief, expressing itself only at the direct expense of another belief".
    Mark Douglas

  8. #75
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    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    Since originally participating on this thread in July 2016 (after my first and only session of EMDR), I have learned a lot more about, especially since my psychologist is fully trained and certified in it. I'd always been critical of it for at least a year before I tried it. She is a Ph.D after all, and I expected her to have her head on straight. But, now I've read a ton of research on it. It really IS a legitimate therapy that helps many, many people with PTSD. I knew that before, kind of, but now I know that it's true.

    However, not all PTSD cases are the same, and this is perhaps more likely the reason why my EMDR session went horribly wrong, or at least compounded other reasons. It's true it also triggered me into a tailspin. But I don't think it was just because it reminded me a little of auditing and e-meters, or even the feeling of suspicion of being duped again.

    It's that EMDR is only good for certain types of PTSD.

    It works well on soldiers (most likely) because they are probably traumatized over something pretty specific, and maybe if I was traumatized only by Scientology, it could have worked for me too. But I have Complex PTSD and EMDR doesn't work so great for this type of PTSD.

    When someone has Complex PTSD (plus, remember, I have bipolar as well), they could very well have aspects of a dissociative disorder too. Bringing their attention to the lights and the clicking and all that, can be too much. I have an extreme dissociative disorder because of everything I've been through (a ton of abuse before I even got into Scientology). But the tapping, that helps me when I feel temporarily panicked, stressed, angry, upset, etc. There's also a thing called havening which is additionally connected to the whole EMDR model, and that helps too. The havening is a lot like the tapping (based on the meridian system thing) and works even faster. People have basically been doing something just like it as a natural reaction to soothe themselves forever -- cradling themselves and rubbing their own arms when feeling extremely upset, shocked, etc.

    Anyway, in full disclosure, ever since that "incident," that day I received my first EMDR session -- for those of you just tuning in -- I felt pretty good afterward. But then I went to lunch with a friend an hour afterward and told her about it. She, of course, had never heard of it before, and was naturally very skeptical. She was just looking out for me. As a matter of fact she's a big anti-Scientology/free speech/Anonymous friend of mine (I mean, neither of us are in Anonymous but she's connected to them on Facebook and loves that they dislike Scn). She's also never been in the cult either. I've known her as a "wog." Anyway, when I tried to tell her about EMDR in a quick nutshell, I was hearing myself talk about the eye machine and holding the little buzzies in my hands. Just before, I could gauge her reaction. I couldn't help but agree. "It sure sound like a Scientology's e-meter," she said with her mouth half stuffed with un-chewed sandwich.

    For the rest of the day, that was all I could think about. It's just another bullshit mind bending apparatus. I'm so fucking gullible! By the evening, I was having a bit of an obsessive meltdown, and three days later, I'd been crying and couldn't make it stop. I can't remember if I mentioned this part on the forum (probably not), but my therapist and I decided that EMDR wasn't for me. Still, all the other treatment surrounding it (mainly the reading), I've done, and I've even made drawings pertaining to some of the concepts. But all in all, I have not been doing well since that point in time. That's not to say it is because of that day. That's just the time I've used to mark the calendar as to when my depression took a major turn for the worst. It could be other factors, like having had quit smoking a couple of months before that. Or maybe my meds began to wear off? I'm not sure. Still, the tapping and havening are little temporary fixes when things get escalated.

    I also was working on a book, which could explain all of this. Editing, drafting, writing and rewriting all the tragedies in my life -- every day, over and over. That's probably "why." I finished it on the 3rd of March and now I am just so glad to get some distance, but the depression is still with me.

    Thanks for listening, I mean reading.

  9. #76
    Rabble Rouser Gizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANY and ALL Therapy

    I came across a person long ago who said :

    " At least 85 % of the results of any therapy is the belief in it that the patient brings to it ".

    In my experience, and observation, I've found that applies to everything I've ever heard of.

    Tends to go along with others who say that we as individuals have all the strength and wisdom we will ever need - we just need to have the courage to use it.

    Like most of my fellow readers here, I've seen great results and great failures from almost every form help ever foisted off on mankind.

    Can it be true that it is what we bring and what we believe that determines the outcome ?
    " You can't focus on anything without attracting more of it "

    "Contradictory beliefs cancel your energy because you have a built in mental conflict between the validity of one belief, expressing itself only at the direct expense of another belief".
    Mark Douglas

  10. #77
    Short of inspiration lotus's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANY and ALL Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
    I

    Can it be true that it is what we bring and what we believe that determines the outcome ?
    I think it is correct in part to say that!

    Because any therapy to bring a change begins with:

    1) hope to change what need to be changed (views, reactions, resentment, fear, sadness, toxic emotions\thoughts ..whatever..
    2) the willingness to work on it and do it

    The 2nd part is the most important. It adresse the lcient own involvement. (there no magic in it..rewards comes with work)
    For example if the therapist offers you to work on a specifictc therapy and you don't believe those therapies can help you because..this and that...
    well, if you make an agreement with the therapist that you do your work to follow the procedures and processes..then it will work.

    That is the difference with Woo Woo..and prooven therapies have been measured to give results per scientific studies and double blind controlled. There must be a significant difference to conclude it is efficient. So the part (competence and techniques) the therapist brings is key to success.

    But I would agree that when the client believes it will help, + like and appreciate his\her therapist, and both do a wonderfull team..it helps to gives even better results.


    As an example: I have a good friend of mine who entered last week a last stage of a very aggressive cancer. She was not prepared to it. She was devastated. She began today to consult the psychologist she previously had seen in her oncology programm few years ago. He had now begun to help her to prepared for this next stage of her life. So I just saw her today..and she really is doing way better. We laughed and she is preparing to enjoy the next coming days of spring, adopting a day-to-day philosophy of taking the best as she can while putting orders into her $$affairs.

    It addressed her comfort and emotions as she was expecting, with pretty good results.
    Last edited by lotus; 23rd March 2017 at 10:23 PM.

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  12. #78
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    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    I think I may only partially agree about the patient's attitude in any one particular therapy working, or not. I fully understand the concept that it would benefit the patient to have the perspective to: 1. feel optimism/hope for real change to happen and be willing to do the work necessary to get there, and 2. have a great relationship with the therapist. That is a major plus. I think these things are certainly helpful in the therapeutic process, sure. But, I wouldn't be sure that any one specific technique will work whether those factors are in play or not. And that's only because of this other thing I've come to believe in that outweighs both of those helpful tidbits, more than the old "positive attitude" or "mind over matter" concepts, and that's just science. It at least has to work as close to science as possible in that all the patients are getting consistently the same results no matter what kind of attitude they bring in with them.

    It's what we bring and what we believe that determines the outcome blah blah blah reminds me of more of the same Scientology ideal. It's just more of the same: being responsible for your own case gain BS. It's pan-determinism light. Then you can blame the patient for not believing in himself enough, or his rapport the therapist, but not the technique itself. See what I mean?

    Personally, for me, I didn't like the idea of closing my eyes, holding little buzzies in my hands and imagining anything. It didn't matter if it was thinking of a peaceful place or not. It's didn't matter if I was thinking of someone loving or not. I did not want to be in that vulnerable, possibly hypnotic position ever again, and it kind of felt like I was. So, for me the concept seems pretty sound, but the eye movement part I'm not sold on, or even the buzzing. I will need to keep reading, or, maybe I won't. I think for someone who has been so burned by auditing, it just might not be the correct type of therapy for me.

  13. #79
    Rabble Rouser Gizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by EZ Linus View Post
    I think I may only partially agree about the patient's attitude in any one particular therapy working, or not. I fully understand the concept that it would benefit the patient to have the perspective to: 1. feel optimism/hope for real change to happen and be willing to do the work necessary to get there, and 2. have a great relationship with the therapist. That is a major plus. I think these things are certainly helpful in the therapeutic process, sure. But, I wouldn't be sure that any one specific technique will work whether those factors are in play or not. And that's only because of this other thing I've come to believe in that outweighs both of those helpful tidbits, more than the old "positive attitude" or "mind over matter" concepts, and that's just science. It at least has to work as close to science as possible in that all the patients are getting consistently the same results no matter what kind of attitude they bring in with them.

    It's what we bring and what we believe that determines the outcome blah blah blah reminds me of more of the same Scientology ideal. It's just more of the same: being responsible for your own case gain BS. It's pan-determinism light. Then you can blame the patient for not believing in himself enough, or his rapport the therapist, but not the technique itself. See what I mean?

    Personally, for me, I didn't like the idea of closing my eyes, holding little buzzies in my hands and imagining anything. It didn't matter if it was thinking of a peaceful place or not. It's didn't matter if I was thinking of someone loving or not. I did not want to be in that vulnerable, possibly hypnotic position ever again, and it kind of felt like I was. So, for me the concept seems pretty sound, but the eye movement part I'm not sold on, or even the buzzing. I will need to keep reading, or, maybe I won't. I think for someone who has been so burned by auditing, it just might not be the correct type of therapy for me.
    I hardly an advocate of scientology. But, after looking at many things that work for some people & not for others ?

    How come be it science or pure mumbo jumbo BS sometimes it works, sometimes not ?

    Perhaps you can explain why science sometimes doesn't work ?

    Gee, you think maybe God does ' divine intervention ' to fix things ?
    Last edited by Gizmo; 24th March 2017 at 12:35 AM.
    " You can't focus on anything without attracting more of it "

    "Contradictory beliefs cancel your energy because you have a built in mental conflict between the validity of one belief, expressing itself only at the direct expense of another belief".
    Mark Douglas

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  15. #80
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    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    I don't know if we somehow misunderstood each other Gizmo, but I certainly can not explain to you how science "doesn't work sometimes." Then it wouldn't be science, would it? I was trying to be as polite as possible (and probably wound up just not being very clear) that I don't believe in "mind over matter." I can see positive thinking making someone "feel" better while they a battling out cancer or some such thing. I do not think however, it changes the ultimate outcome.

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