Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112131415 LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 147

Thread: EMDR Therapy

  1. #111
    Patron with Honors
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by lotus View Post
    Sad Phenom! ( I clearly recall when you mentionned it few wears ago..I was shocked)
    Do you mean you have a lot in common with Flora Schreiber of with Shirley Mason aka Sybil????

    Yes...early childhood is difficult to heal..because of the relation with the mother involved.
    However you may still feel about your childhood Phenom..whatever taht my arise in your mind...you are a sain person and a lovely lady!
    May life brings love to comfort you and fill your little girl's heart!

    p.s. I too read Edgar Cayce...probably all of the books published by the fondation till I came into the cult.
    Hi lotus. I think you meant to quote me.

    I meant that I had a lot in common with with Shirley Mason aka Sybil, not Schreiber (I got confused there), but that was before I knew it was a phony sensation. And I still need to read more of the links you provided, I've just been busy working -- trying to beat the clock -- to get my manuscript cleaned up before Monday morning for an agency that requested it, which is good and hopeful news. My upcoming book is not entirely about Scientology, but I'd say at least half of it is, as it is weaved throughout a 20-year span. For that reason alone, I believe it will find a publisher. There's been a lot of interest.

    Anyway, I am most interested now in the DID spectrum and how it correlates with the bipolar chemical hand-me-down of my mother. Plus, the complex-PTSD and how it is "impossible" to have all these things in play at the same time, when as far as I knew, I certainly did/do had all three. I need to at least read up on that a bit before Monday because I talk an awful lot about my bipolar (and disassociative) behaviors in retrospect as I lived my life in Scientology and within Scientology subgroups, staff, relationships, social groups, etc. in my book. It all makes perfect sense to me, especially the schizo-effective aspect of my bipolar disorder, and the complete spacing out I did when in auditing sessions, or in handling things in ethics that pertained to very traumatic events that happened previous to my involvement to the cult -- like the idea of having to take responsibility for "being there" or recalling earlier similars. All that was disassociated from me just to cope with it.

    There's also been a way my therapist (Ph.D), not my psychiatrist, has been treating me in regards to the whole DDNOS thing. She doesn't look at these "parts" as split personalities that are unaware of each other, they are just all me, parts of me, just as there are insecure aspects of people and confident aspects too. "Hats," like Sheila said. It's as simple as that. I am not being treated as if I have MPD.

    My therapist and my psychiatrist are having a phone meeting tomorrow and I am very curious as to how this all is going to go! I really wonder if they are going to battle out the diagnoses.

    It's taken me a really long time to get where I am, and maybe I'm still a long way from happily ever after, but I know I make way better choices now. Now there's better people in my life (healthier, saner, etc.), I have a completely different world view, which in turn gives me a different personality in many ways (because I believe there definitely is a cult personality), and now I live in the real world, in real reality, where there are knowns and unknowns, and I like it that way. I took me almost forever to even accept my diagnoses (my physical disability and my mental illness), obviously, because I never believed they even existed. It was a hard pill to swallow -- literally! ...Psych meds?! Are you kidding me? But I've willed everything of value in my last Will and Testament to CCHR!... Believe me, it was hard.

    Blah blah blah...Back to work.


  2. Thanks Free to shine, lotus, JustSheila says "thank you" for this post
    Likes phenomanon, lotus liked this post
  3. #112

    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by EZ Linus View Post
    <snip>

    I meant that I had a lot in common with with Shirley Mason aka Sybil, not Schreiber (I got confused there), but that was before I knew it was a phony sensation. And I still need to read more of the links you provided, I've just been busy working -- trying to beat the clock -- to get my manuscript cleaned up before Monday morning for an agency that requested it, which is good and hopeful news. My upcoming book is not entirely about Scientology, but I'd say at least half of it is, as it is weaved throughout a 20-year span. For that reason alone, I believe it will find a publisher. There's been a lot of interest.

    Anyway, I am most interested now in the DID spectrum and how it correlates with the bipolar chemical hand-me-down of my mother. Plus, the complex-PTSD and how it is "impossible" to have all these things in play at the same time, when as far as I knew, I certainly did/do had all three.

    To clarify what I said earlier, according to DSM-5, Bipolar, Borderline, Histrionic, etc. are personality disorders, so it would be technically inaccurate for any person to be diagnosed as two or more of them at the same time. PTSD is a syndrome, so (technically) can occur at the same time. There are combination disorders though, like BPD-PTSD or PTSD-DDNOS. This link might be helpful, and the website is a support group for those who suffer from posttraumatic and dissociative disorders as ESMB isn't really set up or qualified as a medical or psychiatric support group. https://www.igdid.com/h62-did-spectrum

    Diagnoses can take years with a lot of different physical and mental tests and scans and different psychiatric and medical professionals involved. It's best to leave the diagnosis to your personal professionals, rather than try to figure it out yourself.
    Last edited by JustSheila; 7th April 2017 at 04:18 PM.
    "Looking back on it I think I got these gains only because the processing made me self reflect and try to repair the damage done by it. So I made gains in spite of Scientology not because of it. It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."

    - Cleared Cannibal


  4. #113
    Short of inspiration lotus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    PTS\middle class planet
    Posts
    6,620

    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    Sorry EXLinus,

    The was a problem with the quote code so I misunderstood it was Phenom who said so.
    But what you mentionned about the ''$cientology personnality'' is an admitted fact among many of us.

    AFAIAC

    $cientology is a collective induced mental illness (distorted realtity, paranoia, fear of the outer world, folie des grandeurs, sticking to false pseudo past lives, strong dependance on pseudo-therapy auditing, and coerced confession of things that never happened...)

    But usually, when the person is out of the cult, and get out of the mindset it can return to normal but takes time to reframe the thoughts with appropriate ones. A pre-existant mental condition may then be less prone to be exacerbate.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSheila View Post
    To clarify what I said earlier, according to DSM-5, Bipolar, Borderline and DID are personality disorders, so it would be technically inaccurate for any person to be diagnosed as two or more of them at the same time. PTSD is a syndrome, so (technically) can occur at the same time. There are combination disorders though, like BPD-PTSD or PTSD-DDNOS. This link might be helpful, and the website is a support group for those who suffer from posttraumatic and dissociative disorders as ESMB isn't really set up or qualified as a medical or psychiatric support group. https://www.igdid.com/h62-did-spectrum

    Diagnoses can take years with a lot of different physical and mental tests and scans and different psychiatric and medical professionals involved. It's best to leave the diagnosis to your personal professionals, rather than try to figure it out yourself.
    You are correct about the diagnosis. The person must be diagnosed one disorder . The professionals who you consult are certainly able by now to provide with the appropriate diagnosis. But whatever they come up with, support groups may do wonder too.
    Last edited by lotus; 7th April 2017 at 08:06 PM.

  5. Thanks JustSheila says "thank you" for this post
  6. #114

    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    Thanks, Lotus. I made a mistake, though, on my original post, which I corrected. DID is not a personality disorder, it is a dissociative disorder, different category.

    We both studied these so long ago! I majored in Psychology and Sociology with a Bachelor of Science years ago. I remember that personality disorders are set, unlike syndromes, so you can only be one personality disorder at a time.

    It used to be so fascinating to me when I did my degree. Now it just gives me headaches. Over to you, darl'.
    "Looking back on it I think I got these gains only because the processing made me self reflect and try to repair the damage done by it. So I made gains in spite of Scientology not because of it. It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."

    - Cleared Cannibal


  7. #115

    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by lotus View Post
    $cientology is a collective induced mental illness (distorted realtity, paranoia, fear of the outer world, folie des grandeurs, sticking of false pseudo past lives, strong dependance on pseudo-therapy auditing, and coerced confession of thing s that never happened...)

    But usually, when the person is out of the cult, and get out of the mindset it can return to normal but takes time to reframe the thoughts with appropriate ones. A pre-existant mental condition may then be less prone to be exacerbate.


    Thanks, Lotus. This is a French psychiatric variation, so I wasn't familiar with it at all. It was unfortunately dropped out of DSM-5 and I think that was a huge mistake. It's spot-on for cult diagnoses and completely fits Scientology.

    Folie deux (/fɒˈli ə ˈduː/; French pronunciation: ​[fɔli a d]; French for "madness of two"), or shared psychosis, is a psychiatric syndrome in which symptoms of a delusional belief and hallucinations[1][2] are transmitted from one individual to another.[3] The same syndrome shared by more than two people may be called folie trois, folie quatre, folie en famille or even folie plusieurs ("madness of many"). Recent psychiatric classifications refer to the syndrome as shared psychotic disorder (DSM-IV) (297.3) and induced delusional disorder (F.24) in the ICD-10
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_%C3%A0_deux

    (PS: I'm taking a break from ESMB for a bit. I'll check in again some time down the road.)
    "Looking back on it I think I got these gains only because the processing made me self reflect and try to repair the damage done by it. So I made gains in spite of Scientology not because of it. It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."

    - Cleared Cannibal


  8. Thanks lotus says "thank you" for this post
  9. #116
    Short of inspiration lotus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    PTS\middle class planet
    Posts
    6,620

    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSheila View Post
    Thanks, Lotus. I made a mistake, though, on my original post, which I corrected. DID is not a personality disorder, it is a dissociative disorder, different category.

    We both studied these so long ago! I majored in Psychology and Sociology with a Bachelor of Science years ago. I remember that personality disorders are set, unlike syndromes, so you can only be one personality disorder at a time.

    It used to be so fascinating to me when I did my degree. Now it just gives me headaches. Over to you, darl'.
    I didn't made a degree in either psychology or sociology. It just that psychology, psychopathology and methodology of observation, behavioral psychology were all part of my degree in another field. Which actually I didn't completed. (disliked all the aspect of naming and treating all differences as illnesses)
    Switched to something else later, when In $cientology. (Ethics dept was verry happy I got out off psych lines and came back to my senses..lol)

    Ciao!

  10. Thanks JustSheila says "thank you" for this post
  11. #117
    No Longer Around
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    96

    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam7986 View Post
    My psychologist started me on this form of therapy called EMDR.

    . . .

    What do you think about this?

    Has anyone else ever tried this therapy before?
    I have not personally participated in EMDR, but have had to look into it and the results in particular cases as part of my professinal life, which is not as any kind of practicing psychologist.

    There is considerable debate about whether EMDR essentially recapitulates some older therapy ideas while dressing it in somewhat unprovable brain mechanics speculation. The debate centers around ideas of:
    - (1) extinction regimes,
    - (2) incompatible activities that make a response be displaced by a stronger activity, and
    - (3) the old therapy tactic called "relaxation response".

    On that last point, it should be noted that the EMDR eye oscillation mimics a very old hypnotic induction technique. (Ever see in movies a swinging watch on a chain be used to induce a hypnotic state?) Hypnotic techniques tend to boil down to two basic modes: encourage a very focused relaxing activity or encourage a very focused alert or hypervigilant state. In both cases it is the extreme focus that produces the "trance", or altered state of consciuosness. People who are suggestible tend to take the effective alteration of their state of consciousness as proof that the party inducing that state is authoritative, greatly augmenting their suggestibility towards that source. In general, there is no real proof that suggestibility and state of consciousness are linked other by than the mechanicsm just recited in the last sentence, though in popular imagination, and the imagination of some overly hopeful psychologists, some altered states involve inherent greater suggestibility.

    An extinction regime in behavioral psychology occurs when a particular stimulus is presented but the usual response it arouses is prevented, which leads to a decrease in that probability of that response. There are two ways of preventing the usal response: by making that response dependent on an event which doesn't occur or by encouraging a stronger inconsistent activity to prevent the usual response.

    The first kind is typified in one of the more gruesome university experiments done at Stanford. A dog was placed in a box which had a floor which could be electrified. It was given extremely painful shocks for one instance or conditioning trial, which was sufficient as a Pavlovian conditioning regime that the unconditional stimuli of extreme electric shock produced association with the condtioned stimuli jumping, howling and acting like death is imminent. Sensible, really. Then a Skinnerian "extinction regime" was pursued by forcing that dog back into the same box, which was never again electrified at all, as many times as it took for the learned behavior of "going nuts due to prior associated trauma" to eventually disappear and leave merely a calm (or calmish seeming) dog. Most university ethicists insist that this experiment is never to be replicated. That they proved once that eventually the dog will just stand calmly in the box after enough "extinction" trials does in fact extinguish the learned response ought to be enough. The usual response depended upon someone pressing a button which electrifies the floor of the box, and by controlling that variable, extinction eventually occurs.

    The second kind of extinction involves exerting control over physical processes that are readily controllable: muscle tensing or breathing. An example of this is where a marine combat veteran became conditioned in a post-traumatic stress way to all the particulars of a beach invasion, which in his case included the sandy beach and a landing craft in particular. He was at a point where he might have to quit the beloved USMC because of uncontrollable anxiety whenever presented with a landing craft on a sandy beach. This is often in the USMC. He was instructed to approach a landing craft on his base until he felt distress, then proceed with deep breathing exercises he'd beend taught until he felt calm at that distance from the landing craft on a sandy beach. If necessary, he could lay down and perform "progressive relaxation", which is a very old and heavily validated means of inducing relaxation by progressively tensing all the muscles of the body and then releasing this. Eventually he returned to his ordinary state of mere normal anxiety about things having to do with gruesome death as an occupational choice, so it was a well documentated instance of successful use of the "extinction regime" in a case about as gruesome as the Stanford dog case in some ways. Note that while doing this active process of forcing conditions incompatible with anxiety (via the empirically proven relaxation techniques) he was also being presented with the first type of extinction regime involving the Stanford dog experiement. There were no exploding shells, dying people wailing in a horrific way, and other things typical of over-the-beach invasion that produce stress gonig on. No one was pressing the "hellish mayhem" button while he was doing this "systemic desensitization" procedure.

    Many people early on in the PTSD community thought that sufficiently disciplined application of these extinction regime experiences ought to solve the matter. In fact a great many post trauma therapy applications do seem to prevent a PTSD lasting over years, but not everyone gets this desirable result from straightforward extinction regimes. Some argued that human minds have a way of spreading or generalizing covert stimulae, the thought process creating new associations independently of the actual event that first gave rise to the response of distress, and thus you get a situation like the hydra-headed monster where cutting one head off means several grow back in its place. That is why assorted psychodynamic therapies rather than the pure extinction regimes are tried if the person is not effectively de-PSTDed by time proven extinction regime tactics.

    Now this whole eye osciallation bit is very interesting, because it seems to be involved in a very fundamental brain activity, a powerful one that seems to displace less powerful brain activities. People who have basically no discernible awareness or cognitive functioning left will often nevertheless oscillate their eyes back and forth horizontally. A very good example of this that might be on Youtube is Terri Schiavo. She was married to an asshole Scientologist who wanted her to be slim and have a firm body, etc., to stay married to his asshole Scientologist ass. She developed an eating disorder and incurred the heart attack that often comes with that. She was out before resuscitation long enough to have extensive brain damage. Her husband didn't want to pay with his own money for her maintenance and launched a famous "right to die" court battle for his wife that he'd essentially driven to death by being an asshole Scientologist entilted to an "ideal scene" adolescent bodied wife who is middle aged, and who now didn't want to pay for his own misconduct, as is usual with Scientologists eagerly gonig up the bridge to be godlike and above it all. Human decency most of all is what they so often seem to want to be above. Anyway, you can see in her forensic examinations that famous eye swinging that endures even when there is otherwise near brain death. A doctor tries to get her to fixate her gaze upon a balloon to prove she is not merely swinging her eyes back and forth horizontally.

    EMDR seems to employ, then, a chosen act which appears to be able to so powerfully entrain brain functioning, at a very primary level, that more complex activities like feeling anxiety or distress are displaced. Something incompatible with that more delicate and fragile activity of feeling anxiety overpowers the usual response, thus the usual response is prevented, and that is precisely what an extinction regime is.

    The whole point about traumatic memories being different in storage and function? Many people responded to Hubbard's DMSMH by trying to explore traumatic memory facts and got consistently negative results. There are anecdotes and stray papers arguing that there is a different memory system for traumatic events, but the empirical validation is lacking.

    For my money, then, EMDR is merely the old familiar and empirically validated "extinction regime" brought about by one new method: eye osciillation is added to the tactics of either relaxation breathing or "progressive relaxation" by muscle tensing. I think the answer is unrelated to Scientology techniques, mostly, and doesn't need any of the fancy EMDR proposed window dressing about brains processing traumatic events differently. EMDR results might perhaps benefit from an old hypnotic induction technique result: that if you alter your state of consciousness by obeying the hypnotic inductor, you tend to be suggestible to his/her idea that this will help solve your problem.

    TLDR?? Google "extinction regime", "progressive relaxation", "relaxation breathing training", and "relaxation response".
    I would be fucked up whether or not I was raised in Scientology. This is the basic human condition: to be fucked up. That is the first great realization, imho. From that point on, the purpose of life, rather than just obsessing about what mine has been, becomes more engaging to me.

  12. Thanks dchoiceisalwaysrs, tesseract, EZ Linus says "thank you" for this post
  13. #118
    Patron with Honors
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    Sorry about all the radio silence on this thread. There are a few reasons for it; I'm busy writing, and also there has been things said here that have slightly impeded on my actual therapy sessions -- and that's not anyone's fault. I'm just saying, it's actually good for me to bring new questions up to both my therapist and psychiatrist about mental illness in general. And I am always learning too, about myself and what I see as applicable and or presented in abstracts for the sake of theory, ya know? There's so much information here.

    Anyway, this business about not being able to have two personality disorders at the same time I do not feel is true. Thousands of people have both bipolar and borderline personality at the same time. There are many "diagnoses" that can co-exist concurrently, but I think bottom line, it does not matter. I think what matters is how the person/patient is being treated and if they are improving. There are a lot of interconnections with EMDR and the treatment of the DID/DDNOS/MPD spectrum, or any PTSD/trauma-related syndromes. Maybe EMDR with the lights and the buzzies didn't work for me, but there are many other parts of that model that do work for me. I think I mentioned the Leavening, and using your MDP "parts" to essentially calm and heal yourself, it is ultimately the same model as when you are gathering up your "team" before you begin your EMDR session, if that makes sense: your safe place, your comforting person, etc. I use this kind of model (in a different way) with my therapist and it does the same thing. It's been working. I can get more into it, but that's about how much I'm willing to share.

    I have the "diagnosis" of DDNOS as far as that aspect goes and that is interchangeable with C-PTSD. However, I also have bipolar, which also runs in my family like wild, my mother, her mother (on and on), and I've had some of the schizo-effective features of this too -- since I was very young. My mom too, and she also had borderline personality disorder. My therapist has a "theory" that all this stuff could be caused by trauma, but my psychiatrist won't agree with that. Still, at least both agree with treating all of it with both meds and therapy. And as long as the treatment is giving me some relief, then all good, right? I don't think there is a magic pill or a fast track though.

    I've been out of Scientology for 17 years. That's a long time, and I have come a long, long way too. I even have a lot to give in terms of all the things I have done to get to stable plateaus, but there are always set backs. That's just life. Parents die, money crushes you, illness takes over, all kinds of big life changes can happen and your perspective changes all over again, even just with age. It feels like you're starting from square one, but you're not. You get to keep whatever wisdom you've gained.

    Anyway, I'm blabbering now, but I was just surprised that this section of the forum was not more hoppin'. We should share with each other how we got where we are now.

  14. Thanks dchoiceisalwaysrs, Free to shine, AngeloV, tesseract says "thank you" for this post
    Likes dchoiceisalwaysrs liked this post
  15. #119

    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by EZ Linus View Post
    Anyway, this business about not being able to have two personality disorders at the same time I do not feel is true. Thousands of people have both bipolar and borderline personality at the same time. There are many "diagnoses" that can co-exist concurrently, but I think bottom line, it does not matter. I think what matters is how the person/patient is being treated and if they are improving.<snip>

    I have the "diagnosis" of DDNOS as far as that aspect goes and that is interchangeable with C-PTSD. However, I also have bipolar, which also runs in my family like wild, my mother, her mother (on and on), and I've had some of the schizo-effective features of this too -- since I was very young. My mom too, and she also had borderline personality disorder. My therapist has a "theory" that all this stuff could be caused by trauma, but my psychiatrist won't agree with that. Still, at least both agree with treating all of it with both meds and therapy. And as long as the treatment is giving me some relief, then all good, right? I don't think there is a magic pill or a fast track though.

    I've been out of Scientology for 17 years. That's a long time, and I have come a long, long way too. I even have a lot to give in terms of all the things I have done to get to stable plateaus, but there are always set backs. That's just life. Parents die, money crushes you, illness takes over, all kinds of big life changes can happen and your perspective changes all over again, even just with age. It feels like you're starting from square one, but you're not. You get to keep whatever wisdom you've gained.

    Anyway, I'm blabbering now, but I was just surprised that this section of the forum was not more hoppin'. We should share with each other how we got where we are now.
    No worries, EZLinus, good to hear from you.

    This may help clarify:

    Borderline personality disorder (BPD) is commonly confused with bipolar disorder. Although they do share some similarities, they are very different disorders. BPD is considered an Axis II diagnosis as a personality disorder while bipolar disorder is considered a clinical syndrome, therefore classifying it as Axis I.
    The confusion may also partly be due to the fact that these disorders can exist in the same person simultaneously which is called a comorbid condition. Bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder are comorbid somewhere between 15 and 20 percent of the time, according to Current Psychiatry.
    As I said earlier, you should stay with what your personal, professional, licensed therapist/psychiatrist tells you and stop trying to diagnose yourself. Also, please refer your questions to him or her as well. Like I said earlier, if you have questions about your personal treatment or diagnosis, ESMB is not the right place for that and members here are not authorized to give you professional advice on this forum. The following forum is a good forum for discussion of personal psychiatric issues and questions about different diagnoses: https://www.igdid.com/h62-did-spectrum

    There are also online college classes available if you want to make a study of it.
    "Looking back on it I think I got these gains only because the processing made me self reflect and try to repair the damage done by it. So I made gains in spite of Scientology not because of it. It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."

    - Cleared Cannibal


  16. Likes AngeloV liked this post
    Disagree Free to shine disagreed with this post
  17. #120
    Patron with Honors
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: EMDR Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSheila View Post
    As I said earlier, you should stay with what your personal, professional, licensed therapist/psychiatrist tells you and stop trying to diagnose yourself. Also, please refer your questions to him or her as well. Like I said earlier, if you have questions about your personal treatment or diagnosis, ESMB is not the right place for that and members here are not authorized to give you professional advice on this forum. The following forum is a good forum for discussion of personal psychiatric issues and questions about different diagnoses: https://www.igdid.com/h62-did-spectrum

    There are also online college classes available if you want to make a study of it.
    Wow, why, where, how did you get the idea that I am diagnosing myself??? OR, that I am wanting people on the forum to? I am simply SHARING (which I am absolutely seeing is not safe to do here) what my Ph.D/PhY.D/Licensed EMDR therapist AND my psychiatrist have told me. I am not making a study of anything.

    Thanks.

  18. Thanks Free to shine says "thank you" for this post
    Likes dchoiceisalwaysrs liked this post
Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112131415 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Moving from being a PC/auditor to someone who is in therapy.
    By clamicide in forum General Scientology Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 7th September 2014, 12:26 AM
  2. Therapy
    By Adam7986 in forum Life After Scientology
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 5th October 2012, 11:43 PM
  3. E-meter Shock Therapy
    By Mest Lover in forum Evaluating and Criticising Scientology
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 18th January 2012, 02:54 AM
  4. Attack Therapy
    By Div6 in forum Scientology Technology
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10th September 2009, 06:10 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •