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Thread: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration impossible

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by Free to shine View Post
    Latest update.

    In short, scientology want to send out a letter to possible candidates from MIKE ELLIS (IJC) asking them if they would participate.
    OMFG.

    I suppose the idea that it comes from him is supposed to stop people immediately ringing OSA (which of course they will) so they don't get into legal trouble though IMO there is no way they wouldn't be 'briefed' anyway, no way. "Meet me at this street at midnight and I'll brief you". Oh yes, that happens. This is so totally crazy I can imagine the frenzy it is creating to try and find a way to "handle" this terrible emergency. The bolded sentence below is telling them what to say per policy! The letter is giving scientologists protection from their own organisation's other policies!! I really hope the Judge understands the complexities of this. Also the fact that NO scientologist "in good standing" is EVER going to do anything other than what they are told and expected to do - follow policy.



    From the motion:



    To see the proposed letter: http://tonyortega.org/2017/06/03/sci...-are-you-nuts/
    I know this is subtle, and meant to be by Hubbard and DM/COS/Lawyers.

    follow policy?

    If you ask me that is brainwashing, or creating Ronbots. LOL (hey, at OT8 you get to find out who you are not, and the next level you get find out who you are, or some such carrot on a stick BS, LOL)

    No independent thoughts allowed, just follow policy or "what would Ron do". LOL

    But, anyways, didn't the lawyer on Leah Remini latest episode state that the way he won lawsuits was to separate religion from 1st Amendment rights or something like that.

    This latest rhetorical appeal by Wally Pope is trying to get religion involved whereas the lawsuit is about fraud of money and not religious beliefs.

    I hope the Judge sees thru this, for rhetoric is not to be considered in a court case.

    http://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/c...context=uclrev

    I do believe this fellow has figured it out:

    Last edited by Gib; 4th June 2017 at 04:55 AM.

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  3. #82
    Goldenrod SP ThetanExterior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    It seems to me that this whole sorry mess stems from the agreements the Garcias signed when they were scientologists.

    I am not a lawyer but I would have thought those agreements would be classed as contracts and when the Garcias were declared as SPs that would effectively break the contract. But the judge is insisting the Garcias fulfill their side of the contract even though the CofS has kicked them out.

    I think the judge should have taken advice from an ex scientologist before he embarked on this crazy course of action because it is obviously unworkable.

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  5. #83
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by ThetanExterior View Post
    It seems to me that this whole sorry mess stems from the agreements the Garcias signed when they were scientologists.

    I am not a lawyer but I would have thought those agreements would be classed as contracts and when the Garcias were declared as SPs that would effectively break the contract. But the judge is insisting the Garcias fulfill their side of the contract even though the CofS has kicked them out.

    I think the judge should have taken advice from an ex scientologist before he embarked on this crazy course of action because it is obviously unworkable.
    WHAT IS SCIENTOLOGY?

    Scientology is a very precise science (over a span of 65 years) of using members money extorted and manipulated out of them...to pay scum bag attorney's like Monique Yingling - hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not MILLIONS - to put together legal dox members sign so $cientrickery can keep all of the money and you can't do ANYTHING ABOUT IT. They are documents that SUPPRESS its members. There is no Confronting and Shattering either - you are fucked if you sign them. The ignorant and uneducated (typically young) staff members will LIE to the victim to get them to sign it. "If it is not in writing - it is not true"....so there you go. They have to get a stat - you routed on to the course or auditing.

    You pay up front. Money is deemed "donation". When I asked why the money was deemed a donation for "future services" - I was told by the 17 year old staff member - that "we are a church and the IRS wants us to call it a donation"

    Then you do the routing form. You trust - you are in a CHURCH for Xenu's sake (trust is at the top o the tone scale )

    They gloss over the legal dox spewing stories about THE PSYCH'S infiltrating Org's and sending crazy people in that did services and then went CRAZY....

    You believe the shore stories because you don't expect A FUCKING CHURCH TO LIE!

    THAT IS SCIENTOLOGY. THAT IS HOW THEY KEEP YOUR MONEY and take away all of your rights - with your agreement through manipulation and deception. So easy to prove - I can't believe no one has challenged this in court.

    When my friends asked for a refund - the $cientology attorney cited that they did not claim "deceit and manipulation and fraud" - therefore - were not entitled to getting it back.

    If you want a refund - you must be willing to discuss the deceit and fraud with the cock roach attorneys.

  6. #84
    Diamond Invictus SP Type4_PTS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by Knows View Post
    WHAT IS SCIENTOLOGY?

    Scientology is a very precise science (over a span of 65 years) of using members money extorted and manipulated out of them...to pay scum bag attorney's like Monique Yingling - hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not MILLIONS - to put together legal dox members sign so $cientrickery can keep all of the money and you can't do ANYTHING ABOUT IT. They are documents that SUPPRESS its members. There is no Confronting and Shattering either - you are fucked if you sign them. The ignorant and uneducated (typically young) staff members will LIE to the victim to get them to sign it. "If it is not in writing - it is not true"....so there you go. They have to get a stat - you routed on to the course or auditing.

    You pay up front. Money is deemed "donation". When I asked why the money was deemed a donation for "future services" - I was told by the 17 year old staff member - that "we are a church and the IRS wants us to call it a donation"

    Then you do the routing form. You trust - you are in a CHURCH for Xenu's sake (trust is at the top o the tone scale )

    They gloss over the legal dox spewing stories about THE PSYCH'S infiltrating Org's and sending crazy people in that did services and then went CRAZY....

    You believe the shore stories because you don't expect A FUCKING CHURCH TO LIE!

    THAT IS SCIENTOLOGY. THAT IS HOW THEY KEEP YOUR MONEY and take away all of your rights - with your agreement through manipulation and deception. So easy to prove - I can't believe no one has challenged this in court.

    When my friends asked for a refund - the $cientology attorney cited that they did not claim "deceit and manipulation and fraud" - therefore - were not entitled to getting it back.

    If you want a refund - you must be willing to discuss the deceit and fraud with the cock roach attorneys.
    Until the CoS produces just one Clear or just one OT (as described and promised by Hubbard) then Scientology IS a fraud!

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  8. #85
    Gold Meritorious Patron phenomanon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by ThetanExterior View Post
    It seems to me that this whole sorry mess stems from the agreements the Garcias signed when they were scientologists.

    I am not a lawyer but I would have thought those agreements would be classed as contracts and when the Garcias were declared as SPs that would effectively break the contract. But the judge is insisting the Garcias fulfill their side of the contract even though the CofS has kicked them out.

    I think the judge should have taken advice from an ex scientologist before he embarked on this crazy course of action because it is obviously unworkable.
    Totally agreed.
    IJC is most likely briefing a few attention seekers as we read this.
    Wankers!
    I hope this Judge is smart about what he is doing.
    phenomanon

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  10. #86
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by phenomanon View Post
    Totally agreed.
    IJC is most likely briefing a few attention seekers as we read this.
    Wankers!
    I hope this Judge is smart about what he is doing.
    But, anyways, didn't the lawyer on Leah Remini latest episode state that the way he won lawsuits was to separate religion from 1st Amendment rights or something like that.

    This latest rhetorical appeal by Wally Pope is trying to get religion involved whereas the lawsuit is about fraud of money and not religious beliefs.

    I hope the Judge sees thru this, for rhetoric is not to be considered in a court case.
    I wonder why the lawyers didn't bring up that the contracts are one sided and unenforceable. Methinks this case is but one of many he has to hear, and he rules on what he is presented with, and has not researched Scientology to the point of understanding more fully what they are about. So he keeps expecting them to play by the rules, such as following a normal arbitration procedure, not fully cognizant Scientology doesn't ever play by the rules unless it benefits them.

    Mimsey

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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Tony Ortega has the letter the Judge is sending to the 500 potential arbitrators, 20 at a time.

    This is going to drag on forever. Most of the 500 have probably been briefed to refuse and the ones who will accept will already be fully coached to within an inch of their lives. IMO. There is no way they will ever, ever, ever find for the Garcias, I wish people understood that. Because I am basically an optimist I can only hope the Judge is just pushing to see what happens.

    We have the letter Scientologists are receiving from a federal judge!

    Former church members, you tell us: How are current members going to react to getting this letter? What are the odds that the judge can put together a panel relatively quickly?

    Whittemore has scheduled a hearing for August 21, so it appears he’s pretty confident that he’ll get the job done, and quickly.

    Should he be?

    Here’s the document…
    http://tonyortega.org/2017/06/30/we-...federal-judge/
    My Story - Becoming Free to Shine
    QUOTE OF THE YEAR: "I wasn't aware that a documentary (on scientology) was coming out but I'll be sure to not watch it." A Scientologist

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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by Free to shine View Post
    Tony Ortega has the letter the Judge is sending to the 500 potential arbitrators, 20 at a time.

    This is going to drag on forever. Most of the 500 have probably been briefed to refuse and the ones who will accept will already be fully coached to within an inch of their lives. IMO. There is no way they will ever, ever, ever find for the Garcias, I wish people understood that. Because I am basically an optimist I can only hope the Judge is just pushing to see what happens.



    http://tonyortega.org/2017/06/30/we-...federal-judge/
    Given what's known about the CoS you may be right in what you say here. However, that could backfire in a spectacular fashion for CoS. We're talking about a nuclear-tipped foot bullet here.

    Check out this exchange from the comments section at the Bunker from 2 days ago after the Judge informed CoS attorneys that "arbitration is imminent":

    TX Lawyer2 days ago
    When I see those kinds of "Tell your client . . ." warnings, it's usually a veiled threat that it would be in their best interests to make the case settle. That footnote is pretty telling too. It's like: These are your stupid rules, and we're going to go through with this farce whether you like it or not because you insisted on it, you schmucks.

    And remember, if this whole arbitration thing goes up in flames, the judge gets to take the case right back into his courtroom for a proper trial.


    • Juicer77 TX Lawyer2 days ago
    • Thanks, TX.Devil's advocate here: what if the arbitration panel finds that, nope, the Garcias are SOL and don't deserve a refund? Then arbitration is complete and the good Judge is satisfied and no one ever gets a refund. Right?

      • TX Lawyer Juicer772 days ago
      • That depends on how the arbitration plays out. Under the Federal Arbitration Act, a court can set aside an arbitration award on four grounds that are very narrow, but which seem highly likely to occur in the context of Scientology:

        (1) where the award was procured by corruption, fraud, or undue means;

        (2) where there was evident partiality or corruption in the arbitrators, or either of them;

        (3) where the arbitrators were guilty of misconduct in refusing to postpone the hearing, upon sufficient cause shown, or in refusing to hear evidence pertinent and material to the controversy; or of any other misbehavior by which the rights of any party have been prejudiced; or

        (4) where the arbitrators exceeded their powers, or so imperfectly executed them that a mutual, final, and definite award upon the subject matter submitted was not made.

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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    I am surprised that they sent out only 20. I mean that's an awfully small number to come out of 500. If he has any inkling of how Scientologists think he would probably need to send out 100 at a clip to get any kind of meaningful response. Oh well, he will learn eventually I guess.

    By the way Texas lawyer over on Tony's blog had an interesting comment, that maybe he is setting up Scientology to fail. That would be an interesting ploy for a judge, huh?

    If Scientology mucks up the arbitration by tainting the arbitrators pool then he could rule that it's arbitration is invalid and move straight into the trial. A ruling like that would set a precedent that could be used against Scientology in future cases and eliminate the arbitration catch 22 completely.
    Mimsey

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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimsey Borogrove View Post
    I am surprised that they sent out only 20. I mean that's an awfully small number to come out of 500. If he has any inkling of how Scientologists think he would probably need to send out 100 at a clip to get any kind of meaningful response. Oh well, he will learn eventually I guess.

    By the way Texas lawyer over on Tony's blog had an interesting comment, that maybe he is setting up Scientology to fail. That would be an interesting ploy for a judge, huh?

    If Scientology mucks up the arbitration by tainting the arbitrators pool then he could rule that it's arbitration is invalid and move straight into the trial. A ruling like that would set a precedent that could be used against Scientology in future cases and eliminate the arbitration catch 22 completely.
    Mimsey
    I think that Hubbard and Miscavige have set up Scientology to fail. It's just a matter of time.

    If the judge helps them along then more power to him.

    I imagine he's crystal clear on the Scientology "justice system" being a fraud which is intended to treat the Garcia's and others in an unjust fashion. Hopefully he can do something from his position to really help the Garcias.

    I hope someone has made him aware of the scientology playbook in these types of situations. He needs to take extra security precautions to protect his pets, his trash (from being taken by someone hired by OSA), as well as other security concerns.

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