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Thread: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration impossible

  1. #41
    Goldenrod SP ThetanExterior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    It seems to me that this whole problem was caused by the Garcias signing away their rights to independent arbitration. So instead of arguing about the CoS arbitration, which we all know will be a farce, why haven't they argued that it was illegal for them to be made to sign away their rights in the first place?

    Or have they already argued this? Or was it not illegal?

  2. #42
    Gold Meritorious Sponsor HelluvaHoax!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by dchoiceisalwaysrs View Post
    Is there even one issue dealing with arbitration in scientology policy? Issued before this fiasco?

    My reading of all the previously published articles is that THERE ARE NO SPECIFIC ARBITRATION POLICIES.

    What the COS did in a slap-dash moment of cult terror is to OFFER UP TO THE COURT THE HCOPL(s) ON COM EVS.

    Obviously, there is no slightest connection between an Arbitration and a Com Ev, other than both have ill-equipped Scientologists trying to find justice without any means of doing so. That is to say, Hubbard's policies/"technology" are guaranteed to create injustice, which is why 99% of Scientologists eventually blow.

    The court, in their infinite stupidity, accepted a Scientology-manned Arbitration, even though the cult's policies blatantly promote the doctrines that the COS is never wrong and anyone criticizing or suing is, by definition, an SP, a CRIMINAL and someone who HAS NO RIGHTS.

    And someone who must be destroyed.

    Put all that together and add in a half-gallon of KSW Scientologists manning the whole travesty and you have a manifestly malevolent mandate by the court that guarantees ALL OF THE RIGHTS OF THE PLAINTIVE WILL BE IGNORED, TRAMPLED OR WORSE.

    The judge on this case is no different than the stupid IRS that ruled in favor of Scientology being a tax-exempt religion.

    If there was a judge on any of those cases who was sworn supporter of the US Constitution, then this is what would have happened in those two instances:

    1) The Arbitration would have been delegated to any one of the top-flight professional Arbitration-Mediation organizations that have lawyers and judges running the show according to tried-and-true, proven methodologies based on law. Thus, the Garcia's would not have been subjected to the absurd injustice of having to try to prove that Scientology is a treacherously lying criminal organization.

    2) The IRS would have forced the COS to separate their "RELIGION" from the "SALES OF PRODUCTS". Thus, all pricelist donations (auditing/training) would not have been tax exempt. Likewise the properties (other than the "chapel" if it is fully dedicated to "worship") would have been liable for property taxes. And even more importantly than taxes, the COS would have been fully under the control of CONSUMER PROTECTION STATUTES AND AGENCIES. That last one would have opened the floodgates for lawyers eager to get their client's donations back for fraud. To wit, end of Scn as we know it!
    ________________________

    Scientology literally saved my life! Without Ron's books I would have frozen to death!!! (see avatar)

    Scientology in one word? HelluvaHoax!

    I never felt as free as when I freed myself from "Total Freedom".

    For offended Scientologists reading this blasphemy about L. Ron Hubbard---my apologies for talking about real life without lying to you, like Scientology, with goo-goo theta-talk. I know you don't have a floating needle right now. You're not supposed to.

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  4. #43
    Diamond Invictus SP Type4_PTS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaHoax! View Post
    <snip>

    The judge on this case is no different than the stupid IRS that ruled in favor of Scientology being a tax-exempt religion.

    If there was a judge on any of those cases who was sworn supporter of the US Constitution, then this is what would have happened in those two instances:

    1) The Arbitration would have been delegated to any one of the top-flight professional Arbitration-Mediation organizations that have lawyers and judges running the show according to tried-and-true, proven methodologies based on law. Thus, the Garcia's would not have been subjected to the absurd injustice of having to try to prove that Scientology is a treacherously lying criminal organization.

    2) The IRS would have forced the COS to separate their "RELIGION" from the "SALES OF PRODUCTS". Thus, all pricelist donations (auditing/training) would not have been tax exempt. Likewise the properties (other than the "chapel" if it is fully dedicated to "worship") would have been liable for property taxes. And even more importantly than taxes, the COS would have been fully under the control of CONSUMER PROTECTION STATUTES AND AGENCIES. That last one would have opened the floodgates for lawyers eager to get their client's donations back for fraud. To wit, end of Scn as we know it!
    How could the CoS separate their "RELIGION" from the "SALES OF PRODUCTS", when the "SALES OF PRODUCTS" IS their "RELIGION"?*





    * I exaggerated a bit there. The "SALES OF PRODUCTS" isn't truly their entire religion.

    It also includes the solicitation of "donations" for Ideal Orgs, Library Donation Projects, Way to Happiness booklets, and the unrelenting demand to increase ones IAS status.

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  6. #44
    Crusader Mimsey Borogrove's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    My guess of what happens next is Scientology will appeal to a higher court to have the judge's ruling over turned,.

    Mimsey

  7. #45
    Patron with Honors tesseract's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimsey Borogrove View Post
    My guess of what happens next is Scientology will appeal to a higher court to have the judge's ruling over turned,.

    Mimsey
    I have an almost shiny 1 € coin here that says, settlement.
    I'm not willing to bet more because it's a scientology case and that means, anything can happen, anytime.
    It's like when sentences don't end the way you octopus


    On a more serious note, I suspect they will complain about the ruling as unconstitutional, insofar as the chosen arbitrators "need" to stay in contact with their "church" for their "spiritual processing", which the court ruling forbids. They'll probably try to exploit that situation for a while to play the victim, for their own parishioners and the few gullible sympathisants. Then, "suddenly" there'll be a settlement offering (because the lawyers keep telling Dave that the situation is getting serious).
    Ironically, as set out at the Underground Bunker in the comments, trying to settle now makes it necessary for CoS to ask for the hold on the lawsuit being lifted and that might (the experts are not sure) put them in danger of the judge ruling that the arbitration process is unfeasible/nonexistent. That might open the doors to future litigation for refunds.
    Or the judge rules at some point during choosing the arbitrators, or during arbitration, that the arbitration process is unfeasible and/or unfair.
    So many possibilities...
    EVIL GETS THINGS DONE

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  9. #46
    Gold Meritorious Patron TheOriginalBigBlue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Lots of great comments at the Bunker, I thought.

    There is no way in Xenu's hell the Church is going to generate a list of 500 Scientologists in good standing for distribution to the court or anyone. They don't want Scientologists to know this case even exists let alone giving them a reason to find out what it is about.

    I am a firm believer in the law of unintended consequences and this just became a little more popcorn worthy.

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  11. #47
    Gold Meritorious Sponsor HelluvaHoax!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by tesseract View Post
    I have an almost shiny 1 € coin here that says, settlement.
    I'm not willing to bet more because it's a scientology case and that means, anything can happen, anytime.
    It's like when sentences don't end the way you octopus


    On a more serious note, I suspect they will complain about the ruling as unconstitutional, insofar as the chosen arbitrators "need" to stay in contact with their "church" for their "spiritual processing", which the court ruling forbids. They'll probably try to exploit that situation for a while to play the victim, for their own parishioners and the few gullible sympathisants. Then, "suddenly" there'll be a settlement offering (because the lawyers keep telling Dave that the situation is getting serious).
    Ironically, as set out at the Underground Bunker in the comments, trying to settle now makes it necessary for CoS to ask for the hold on the lawsuit being lifted and that might (the experts are not sure) put them in danger of the judge ruling that the arbitration process is unfeasible/nonexistent. That might open the doors to future litigation for refunds.
    Or the judge rules at some point during choosing the arbitrators, or during arbitration, that the arbitration process is unfeasible and/or unfair.
    So many possibilities...

    Yes, yes, yes! So many possibilities!

    Let's not rule out the distinct possibility that the Garcias suddenly and mysteriously drop their lawsuit, publicly fire their attorneys and then publish a 1000 page, madly hand-scribbled manifesto from a remote log cabin1, detailing how Tony Ortega and the Russians hacked their litigation and brought about its demise.

    It doesn't have to make any sense--it's Scientology!

    LOL


    .



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    Last edited by HelluvaHoax!; 13th April 2017 at 12:49 PM.
    ________________________

    Scientology literally saved my life! Without Ron's books I would have frozen to death!!! (see avatar)

    Scientology in one word? HelluvaHoax!

    I never felt as free as when I freed myself from "Total Freedom".

    For offended Scientologists reading this blasphemy about L. Ron Hubbard---my apologies for talking about real life without lying to you, like Scientology, with goo-goo theta-talk. I know you don't have a floating needle right now. You're not supposed to.

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  13. #48
    Gold Meritorious Patron Karen#1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaHoax! View Post
    My reading of all the previously published articles is that THERE ARE NO SPECIFIC ARBITRATION POLICIES.

    What the COS did in a slap-dash moment of cult terror is to OFFER UP TO THE COURT THE HCOPL(s) ON COM EVS.

    Obviously, there is no slightest connection between an Arbitration and a Com Ev, other than both have ill-equipped Scientologists trying to find justice without any means of doing so. That is to say, Hubbard's policies/"technology" are guaranteed to create injustice, which is why 99% of Scientologists eventually blow.

    The court, in their infinite stupidity, accepted a Scientology-manned Arbitration, even though the cult's policies blatantly promote the doctrines that the COS is never wrong and anyone criticizing or suing is, by definition, an SP, a CRIMINAL and someone who HAS NO RIGHTS.

    And someone who must be destroyed.

    Put all that together and add in a half-gallon of KSW Scientologists manning the whole travesty and you have a manifestly malevolent mandate by the court that guarantees ALL OF THE RIGHTS OF THE PLAINTIVE WILL BE IGNORED, TRAMPLED OR WORSE.

    The judge on this case is no different than the stupid IRS that ruled in favor of Scientology being a tax-exempt religion.

    If there was a judge on any of those cases who was sworn supporter of the US Constitution, then this is what would have happened in those two instances:

    1) The Arbitration would have been delegated to any one of the top-flight professional Arbitration-Mediation organizations that have lawyers and judges running the show according to tried-and-true, proven methodologies based on law. Thus, the Garcia's would not have been subjected to the absurd injustice of having to try to prove that Scientology is a treacherously lying criminal organization.

    2) The IRS would have forced the COS to separate their "RELIGION" from the "SALES OF PRODUCTS". Thus, all pricelist donations (auditing/training) would not have been tax exempt. Likewise the properties (other than the "chapel" if it is fully dedicated to "worship") would have been liable for property taxes. And even more importantly than taxes, the COS would have been fully under the control of CONSUMER PROTECTION STATUTES AND AGENCIES. That last one would have opened the floodgates for lawyers eager to get their client's donations back for fraud. To wit, end of Scn as we know it!
    Judge Waldrip of Comal County District court ruled as a finding after weighing 2 years of evidence ::::



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  15. #49
    Gold Meritorious Sponsor HelluvaHoax!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen#1 View Post
    Judge Waldrip of Comal County District court ruled as a finding after weighing 2 years of evidence ::::



    Yes! That was a wondrous and rare moment of light in what has otherwise been 67 years of the Scientology-induced "Dark Ages" of judicial blindness.

    If only other judges and jurisprudence regulatory agencies had such clarity! Judge Waldrip's conclusion was like a moon-less, pitch black night, suddenly illuminated by a momentary, fleeting flash of lightning!

    Yayyy for the brightness of functionally rational people!
    Last edited by HelluvaHoax!; 12th April 2017 at 09:46 PM.
    ________________________

    Scientology literally saved my life! Without Ron's books I would have frozen to death!!! (see avatar)

    Scientology in one word? HelluvaHoax!

    I never felt as free as when I freed myself from "Total Freedom".

    For offended Scientologists reading this blasphemy about L. Ron Hubbard---my apologies for talking about real life without lying to you, like Scientology, with goo-goo theta-talk. I know you don't have a floating needle right now. You're not supposed to.

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  17. #50
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaHoax! View Post
    My reading of all the previously published articles is that THERE ARE NO SPECIFIC ARBITRATION POLICIES.

    What the COS did in a slap-dash moment of cult terror is to OFFER UP TO THE COURT THE HCOPL(s) ON COM EVS.

    Obviously, there is no slightest connection between an Arbitration and a Com Ev, other than both have ill-equipped Scientologists trying to find justice without any means of doing so. That is to say, Hubbard's policies/"technology" are guaranteed to create injustice, which is why 99% of Scientologists eventually blow.

    The court, in their infinite stupidity, accepted a Scientology-manned Arbitration, even though the cult's policies blatantly promote the doctrines that the COS is never wrong and anyone criticizing or suing is, by definition, an SP, a CRIMINAL and someone who HAS NO RIGHTS.

    And someone who must be destroyed.

    Put all that together and add in a half-gallon of KSW Scientologists manning the whole travesty and you have a manifestly malevolent mandate by the court that guarantees ALL OF THE RIGHTS OF THE PLAINTIVE WILL BE IGNORED, TRAMPLED OR WORSE.

    The judge on this case is no different than the stupid IRS that ruled in favor of Scientology being a tax-exempt religion.

    If there was a judge on any of those cases who was sworn supporter of the US Constitution, then this is what would have happened in those two instances:

    1) The Arbitration would have been delegated to any one of the top-flight professional Arbitration-Mediation organizations that have lawyers and judges running the show according to tried-and-true, proven methodologies based on law. Thus, the Garcia's would not have been subjected to the absurd injustice of having to try to prove that Scientology is a treacherously lying criminal organization.

    2) The IRS would have forced the COS to separate their "RELIGION" from the "SALES OF PRODUCTS". Thus, all pricelist donations (auditing/training) would not have been tax exempt. Likewise the properties (other than the "chapel" if it is fully dedicated to "worship") would have been liable for property taxes. And even more importantly than taxes, the COS would have been fully under the control of CONSUMER PROTECTION STATUTES AND AGENCIES. That last one would have opened the floodgates for lawyers eager to get their client's donations back for fraud. To wit, end of Scn as we know it!
    I get it now.....Com EV = Arbitration = A =A =A = Fraud....I get it...scientology is showing the court how to know how to know by their actions what is FRAUD.
    NO Clay Demo required..it is fully cleared now and scientology can demonstrate and use their fraud_ability
    isn't that what the course case is all about?? Fraud...yes I thought so....thanks Pass....next checksheet target

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