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Thread: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration impossible

  1. #21
    Gold Meritorious Patron Mimsey Borogrove's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Did you see the update at Tony O's today? Predictably Wally Pope want's it stricken, but more ominous - How did Wally Know they were formerly Babbitt's clients? ( see the document itself)

    This is more far reaching because it potentially undermines the Garcia's case - did Babbitt act improperly and suggest they write the judge?

    Mimsey

    http://tonyortega.org/2016/07/22/was...awsuit-struck/

  2. #22
    Gold Meritorious Patron Mimsey Borogrove's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Re Tony's article today about the judges TR3 - go get the arbitration: http://tonyortega.org/2016/08/06/so-...down-by-judge/

    What I fail to understand about the Judges order is his apparent lack of comprehension of the kangaroo court nature of Scientology's justice system. I can understand that he wants the Garcia's and the Church to follow their contract documents and actually get an arbitration per his orders. However, what outcome does he expect to see?

    It is patently obvious to us that no Scientologist in good standing would side with the Garcia's for fear of being declared, assuming they are even allowed in the same room as the Garcia's during the Com Ev arbitration. Is this what he is after? Proof that there is no justice in their arbitration system? Does he not understand what it means to be a Scientologist in good standing? What is expected of them? That they are duty bound to find against an SP?

    That the Garcia's have no rights as SPs and thus no expectation of justice?

    What is the judges long game in all of this?

    Mimsey

    Some comments from UB

    chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03 > Sid (Phil Jones) • 8 hours ago

    And request for the following Arbitrators:

    1) John Eastment
    2) Peggy Eastment
    3) Ken Delderfield

    All 3 are Apollo vintage Sea Org members who have MORE face time with Hubbard compared to Miscavige, and who would think into all the wisdom and loopholes of Hubbard's rules, and come out with about the best all time judgement if one is to take Scientology really seriously at their own subject, per their Hubbard rules, in detail.

    Lose, which would happen, but lose with John, Peggy or Ken as one's Arbitrator!

    That'd be historical!

    Or ask for Norman Starkey to be Arbitrator!!!!!

    And take along, to the Arbitration, OEC Volume 3 and 1 and 7, which contain the relevant policies.

    Request that the Auditor's Code technical movie be watched by the Arbitrator, and also ask for the Refund and Repayment Routing Form, so that ALL of the Hubbard references on Refunds and Repayments can be requested, read, and used in the Arbitration.

    I'm serious.

    If one plays Scientology using Hubbard's own rule and using Hubbard's oldest most long term stickler faithful vaunted ancient Sea Orgers who have been/there--done/that like nobody's business, then one really does something historical!

    PS: Ask politiely, the Garcias should, for a generic "former AVC Aide" person to be arbitrator. AVC are supposed to be orthodoxy sticklers and adjudicators. I'd request Scientology to give a list of acceptable "ex" AVC Aides or comparable ex Senior Sea Orgers, to be the "Arbitrator" since AVC Aide level mentality is needed, to parse the full Hubbard corpus .
    Still_On_Your_Side > Sid (Phil Jones) • 8 hours ago

    It would be interesting if the Garcias picked a scientologist lawyer not involved in the case as their arbitrator. A lawyer must comply with the code of ethics set out by the state bar and the ABA. If the lawyer agreed to be an arbitrator, but refused to follow those ethics rules, and instead was miscavige's puppet, the Garcias could file a complaint with the state bar. At least Judge Whittemore would not be bound by First Amendment considerations when it comes to dealing with a slimey lawyer.
    I don't think Rosser Cole is slimy, but I doubt he would be interested in being in that position. In fact, other than the zealots who want to see the Garcias put in their place, who in their right mind would want to be involved in the arbitration?

    Juicer77 • 13 hours ago

    One good thing the Garcias have accomplished is putting doubt in the minds of current $cilon donors. Just hear me out. Middle/high income donors are mortgaging property and depleting their savings for DM's asinine projects. They see NO RESULTS and get nothing but increased regging for their efforts. Even if they are arguing in their own heads about it, the doubts are there. News of the Garcia non-settlement WILL filter down through the Co$ grapevine. Donors will see that their money is gone with no hope of any return: no classes, no Bridge, no booming Orgs and forget any thought of a refund EVER. Sounds pretty" out-exchange," huh? (One of the $ci tenets of "faith" is that you never get something for nothing. Equal exchange is always the rule. So right there the Co$ is already violating its own belief system). Doubts lead to questioning, questioning leads to leaving and/or getting booted out.

    Once again, the Co$ doesn't do the smart thing and just refund the Garcias. If they had an ounce of brain they would set up a kangaroo court this minute to find in the Garcia's FAVOR (ETA: or, even better, in mutually favorable manner), settle quietly and make this whole thing go away while the justice system is still spouting "freedom of religion." Bitter a pill as that is to swallow.

    I hope you're taking notes, Dave.

    aquaclara • 11 hours ago
    Oh, too bad the Garcias are back on Sciento-firma with this suit. It makes zero sense to proceed to arbitration when there is no arbitration. Interesting, though, the Judge has asked them for a status report beginning the end of this month, and for each month following. No more slow-mo from Ellis and company.
    Good luck, Garcias.

    Juicer77 > aquaclara • 11 hours ago

    I hope they continue to hold the Co$ feet to the fire on this.

    3feetback-of-COS > aquaclara • 11 hours ago

    Those monthly status reports should make for interesting reading
    Noesis • 11 hours ago

    Arbitration as a concept is valid - the private resolution of disputes through an independent third party that follows a set pattern of rules to which the interested parties agree is a great idea. Organizations such a JAMS provide a framework and members who are able to serve as arbitrators. Many businesses are now requiring customers, vendors and employees to submit to JAMS arbitration procedures rather than the traditional civil legal system to resolve disputes...this is often a prerequisite to doing business or becoming an employee.

    When both parties to an arbitration are acting in good faith, even while pursuing their own preferred outcome, the results of arbitration can be fair, much faster and more economical than the court system.

    However like all matters between humans, perversions of intent are often added into otherwise good systems and then bad outcomes (injustice) occur. Allowing Scientology to force it's marks into an "arbitration system" that the church controls is like asking an executioner to be "kind" while they do one's beheading. Scientology is a fraudulent scheme from its very foundation (DMSMH) and everything that has come after that fraud was designed to mutate the later fraud into a more defensible system...so that the fraud could continue to prey on its victims with minimal outside interference. Scientology as an organization is incapable of independently arbitrating its own disputes because the very nature of the offering is fraudulent, thus there is no equitable outcome to which any significant matter can be resolved except a full refund...which of course is not going to happen as long as the church controls the "arbitration" process.

    One of the reasons the church works so hard to create the illusion that they are acting in the public interest with their ridiculous TWTH (and related) campaigns...is so that they can pretend they are not intentionally dishonest in their overall conduct. That pretending is helpful in court cases like this because it feeds the fiction that Scientology has leadership that operates in good faith...which of course is objectively untrue to those that are aware of the full history of the organization and its many, many victims.

    Because of the inherently fraudulent nature of the Scientology offering and the bad faith operational basis of church leadership any "arbitration" by the church is doomed to a one sided outcome. Liars and cheats do not suddenly become honest and impartial when they "arbitrate" a dispute to which they are an interested party.

    Imagine the victim of an armed robbery going to a criminal trial and finding that the jury in the case is the robber's family and the judge is the robber himself. What are the odds of an equitable outcome for the victim?

    That of course is the scenario one is going to encounter in a Scientology controlled "arbitration."
    In theory the uninvolved arbitrator is a good one, in practice, in the one arbitration I was involved in, the retired judge didn't let us present our case, had taken over the questioning himself, and ruled against us. So we then went to court where the judge ruled that other party failed to prove his case. It was a waste of time. Mimsey
    Last edited by Mimsey Borogrove; 7th August 2016 at 04:14 AM.

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  4. #23
    Shiny Free Crusader Free to shine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    It is shockingly unfair and yet there may be a long game as you say. This comment is interesting:

    Interesting, though, the Judge has asked them for a status report beginning the end of this month, and for each month following.
    Perhaps the Judge is attempting to gather more evidence to make it more clear-cut within the law? (Says the optimist).
    QUOTE OF THE YEAR: "I wasn't aware that a documentary (on scientology) was coming out but I'll be sure to not watch it." A Scientologist

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  6. #24
    Gold Meritorious Patron Mimsey Borogrove's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by Free to shine View Post
    It is shockingly unfair and yet there may be a long game as you say. This comment is interesting:

    Interesting, though, the Judge has asked them for a status report beginning the end of this month, and for each month following.
    Perhaps the Judge is attempting to gather more evidence to make it more clear-cut within the law? (Says the optimist).
    That stood out to me when I read his proclamation - he has added an ethics gradient (for want of a better description) to ensure their progress. It seems to me, he's done with the fucking around by both sides. He wants an arbitration. I wonder if either side continues to drag it out, if he will rule against them?

    Do you think that the Garcia's should accept anybody Ellis recommends knowing the chances they will get a fair arbitration is slim even with the best intentioned scientologist?

    Mimsey

    PS - I never understood why the Garcia's suggested ex-Scientologists in the first place, knowing they weren't in good standing, and wouldn't be accepted. Why? What's to gain?

  7. #25
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    Default Re: Former Scientologists tell federal judge: Church thwarted process to get money ba

    I think you are mistaken. As far as I understand the case the Garcia's did NOT do the full arbitration procedure.... they are still at the stage of agreeing (good luck with that) on arbirators.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib View Post
    OMG. I thought this case was dead in the water. It now appears to me the Judge covered his ass saying lets let scientology do their arbitration. Garcia team did do the arbitration procedure.

    Turns out to be another hellvahoax.

    Go Garcia Team.

  8. #26
    Shiny Free Crusader Free to shine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Unbelievable!

    Federal judge once again finds for Scientology’s nonexistent and Orwellian ‘arbitration’

    Now we’ve learned that Judge Whittemore has once again rejected the Garcias’ motion to jettison the arbitration order and restore their lawsuit, even though he acknowledges how difficult Scientology is making it for the Garcias to select someone. (Previously, he had acknowledged that Scientology doesn’t really have arbitration procedures and had never done an internal arbitration, but ordered the Garcias to submit themselves to it anyway.)
    http://tonyortega.org/2017/02/15/fed...n-arbitration/
    QUOTE OF THE YEAR: "I wasn't aware that a documentary (on scientology) was coming out but I'll be sure to not watch it." A Scientologist

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