Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 90

Thread: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration impossible

  1. #21
    Crusader Mimsey Borogrove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    92,955,887.6 miles from the sun
    Posts
    5,317

    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Did you see the update at Tony O's today? Predictably Wally Pope want's it stricken, but more ominous - How did Wally Know they were formerly Babbitt's clients? ( see the document itself)

    This is more far reaching because it potentially undermines the Garcia's case - did Babbitt act improperly and suggest they write the judge?

    Mimsey

    http://tonyortega.org/2016/07/22/was...awsuit-struck/

  2. #22
    Crusader Mimsey Borogrove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    92,955,887.6 miles from the sun
    Posts
    5,317

    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Re Tony's article today about the judges TR3 - go get the arbitration: http://tonyortega.org/2016/08/06/so-...down-by-judge/

    What I fail to understand about the Judges order is his apparent lack of comprehension of the kangaroo court nature of Scientology's justice system. I can understand that he wants the Garcia's and the Church to follow their contract documents and actually get an arbitration per his orders. However, what outcome does he expect to see?

    It is patently obvious to us that no Scientologist in good standing would side with the Garcia's for fear of being declared, assuming they are even allowed in the same room as the Garcia's during the Com Ev arbitration. Is this what he is after? Proof that there is no justice in their arbitration system? Does he not understand what it means to be a Scientologist in good standing? What is expected of them? That they are duty bound to find against an SP?

    That the Garcia's have no rights as SPs and thus no expectation of justice?

    What is the judges long game in all of this?

    Mimsey

    Some comments from UB

    chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03 > Sid (Phil Jones) • 8 hours ago

    And request for the following Arbitrators:

    1) John Eastment
    2) Peggy Eastment
    3) Ken Delderfield

    All 3 are Apollo vintage Sea Org members who have MORE face time with Hubbard compared to Miscavige, and who would think into all the wisdom and loopholes of Hubbard's rules, and come out with about the best all time judgement if one is to take Scientology really seriously at their own subject, per their Hubbard rules, in detail.

    Lose, which would happen, but lose with John, Peggy or Ken as one's Arbitrator!

    That'd be historical!

    Or ask for Norman Starkey to be Arbitrator!!!!!

    And take along, to the Arbitration, OEC Volume 3 and 1 and 7, which contain the relevant policies.

    Request that the Auditor's Code technical movie be watched by the Arbitrator, and also ask for the Refund and Repayment Routing Form, so that ALL of the Hubbard references on Refunds and Repayments can be requested, read, and used in the Arbitration.

    I'm serious.

    If one plays Scientology using Hubbard's own rule and using Hubbard's oldest most long term stickler faithful vaunted ancient Sea Orgers who have been/there--done/that like nobody's business, then one really does something historical!

    PS: Ask politiely, the Garcias should, for a generic "former AVC Aide" person to be arbitrator. AVC are supposed to be orthodoxy sticklers and adjudicators. I'd request Scientology to give a list of acceptable "ex" AVC Aides or comparable ex Senior Sea Orgers, to be the "Arbitrator" since AVC Aide level mentality is needed, to parse the full Hubbard corpus .
    Still_On_Your_Side > Sid (Phil Jones) • 8 hours ago

    It would be interesting if the Garcias picked a scientologist lawyer not involved in the case as their arbitrator. A lawyer must comply with the code of ethics set out by the state bar and the ABA. If the lawyer agreed to be an arbitrator, but refused to follow those ethics rules, and instead was miscavige's puppet, the Garcias could file a complaint with the state bar. At least Judge Whittemore would not be bound by First Amendment considerations when it comes to dealing with a slimey lawyer.
    I don't think Rosser Cole is slimy, but I doubt he would be interested in being in that position. In fact, other than the zealots who want to see the Garcias put in their place, who in their right mind would want to be involved in the arbitration?

    Juicer77 • 13 hours ago

    One good thing the Garcias have accomplished is putting doubt in the minds of current $cilon donors. Just hear me out. Middle/high income donors are mortgaging property and depleting their savings for DM's asinine projects. They see NO RESULTS and get nothing but increased regging for their efforts. Even if they are arguing in their own heads about it, the doubts are there. News of the Garcia non-settlement WILL filter down through the Co$ grapevine. Donors will see that their money is gone with no hope of any return: no classes, no Bridge, no booming Orgs and forget any thought of a refund EVER. Sounds pretty" out-exchange," huh? (One of the $ci tenets of "faith" is that you never get something for nothing. Equal exchange is always the rule. So right there the Co$ is already violating its own belief system). Doubts lead to questioning, questioning leads to leaving and/or getting booted out.

    Once again, the Co$ doesn't do the smart thing and just refund the Garcias. If they had an ounce of brain they would set up a kangaroo court this minute to find in the Garcia's FAVOR (ETA: or, even better, in mutually favorable manner), settle quietly and make this whole thing go away while the justice system is still spouting "freedom of religion." Bitter a pill as that is to swallow.

    I hope you're taking notes, Dave.

    aquaclara • 11 hours ago
    Oh, too bad the Garcias are back on Sciento-firma with this suit. It makes zero sense to proceed to arbitration when there is no arbitration. Interesting, though, the Judge has asked them for a status report beginning the end of this month, and for each month following. No more slow-mo from Ellis and company.
    Good luck, Garcias.

    Juicer77 > aquaclara • 11 hours ago

    I hope they continue to hold the Co$ feet to the fire on this.

    3feetback-of-COS > aquaclara • 11 hours ago

    Those monthly status reports should make for interesting reading
    Noesis • 11 hours ago

    Arbitration as a concept is valid - the private resolution of disputes through an independent third party that follows a set pattern of rules to which the interested parties agree is a great idea. Organizations such a JAMS provide a framework and members who are able to serve as arbitrators. Many businesses are now requiring customers, vendors and employees to submit to JAMS arbitration procedures rather than the traditional civil legal system to resolve disputes...this is often a prerequisite to doing business or becoming an employee.

    When both parties to an arbitration are acting in good faith, even while pursuing their own preferred outcome, the results of arbitration can be fair, much faster and more economical than the court system.

    However like all matters between humans, perversions of intent are often added into otherwise good systems and then bad outcomes (injustice) occur. Allowing Scientology to force it's marks into an "arbitration system" that the church controls is like asking an executioner to be "kind" while they do one's beheading. Scientology is a fraudulent scheme from its very foundation (DMSMH) and everything that has come after that fraud was designed to mutate the later fraud into a more defensible system...so that the fraud could continue to prey on its victims with minimal outside interference. Scientology as an organization is incapable of independently arbitrating its own disputes because the very nature of the offering is fraudulent, thus there is no equitable outcome to which any significant matter can be resolved except a full refund...which of course is not going to happen as long as the church controls the "arbitration" process.

    One of the reasons the church works so hard to create the illusion that they are acting in the public interest with their ridiculous TWTH (and related) campaigns...is so that they can pretend they are not intentionally dishonest in their overall conduct. That pretending is helpful in court cases like this because it feeds the fiction that Scientology has leadership that operates in good faith...which of course is objectively untrue to those that are aware of the full history of the organization and its many, many victims.

    Because of the inherently fraudulent nature of the Scientology offering and the bad faith operational basis of church leadership any "arbitration" by the church is doomed to a one sided outcome. Liars and cheats do not suddenly become honest and impartial when they "arbitrate" a dispute to which they are an interested party.

    Imagine the victim of an armed robbery going to a criminal trial and finding that the jury in the case is the robber's family and the judge is the robber himself. What are the odds of an equitable outcome for the victim?

    That of course is the scenario one is going to encounter in a Scientology controlled "arbitration."
    In theory the uninvolved arbitrator is a good one, in practice, in the one arbitration I was involved in, the retired judge didn't let us present our case, had taken over the questioning himself, and ruled against us. So we then went to court where the judge ruled that other party failed to prove his case. It was a waste of time. Mimsey
    Last edited by Mimsey Borogrove; 7th August 2016 at 03:14 AM.

  3. Thanks Free to shine, oneonewasaracecar says "thank you" for this post
    Likes Free to shine liked this post
  4. #23
    Shiny Free Crusader Free to shine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    11,090

    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    It is shockingly unfair and yet there may be a long game as you say. This comment is interesting:

    Interesting, though, the Judge has asked them for a status report beginning the end of this month, and for each month following.
    Perhaps the Judge is attempting to gather more evidence to make it more clear-cut within the law? (Says the optimist).
    My Story - Becoming Free to Shine
    QUOTE OF THE YEAR: "I wasn't aware that a documentary (on scientology) was coming out but I'll be sure to not watch it." A Scientologist

  5. Likes JBWriter, oneonewasaracecar liked this post
  6. #24
    Crusader Mimsey Borogrove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    92,955,887.6 miles from the sun
    Posts
    5,317

    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by Free to shine View Post
    It is shockingly unfair and yet there may be a long game as you say. This comment is interesting:

    Interesting, though, the Judge has asked them for a status report beginning the end of this month, and for each month following.
    Perhaps the Judge is attempting to gather more evidence to make it more clear-cut within the law? (Says the optimist).
    That stood out to me when I read his proclamation - he has added an ethics gradient (for want of a better description) to ensure their progress. It seems to me, he's done with the fucking around by both sides. He wants an arbitration. I wonder if either side continues to drag it out, if he will rule against them?

    Do you think that the Garcia's should accept anybody Ellis recommends knowing the chances they will get a fair arbitration is slim even with the best intentioned scientologist?

    Mimsey

    PS - I never understood why the Garcia's suggested ex-Scientologists in the first place, knowing they weren't in good standing, and wouldn't be accepted. Why? What's to gain?

  7. #25
    Gold Meritorious Patron
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    4,199

    Default Re: Former Scientologists tell federal judge: Church thwarted process to get money ba

    I think you are mistaken. As far as I understand the case the Garcia's did NOT do the full arbitration procedure.... they are still at the stage of agreeing (good luck with that) on arbirators.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib View Post
    OMG. I thought this case was dead in the water. It now appears to me the Judge covered his ass saying lets let scientology do their arbitration. Garcia team did do the arbitration procedure.

    Turns out to be another hellvahoax.

    Go Garcia Team.

  8. #26
    Shiny Free Crusader Free to shine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    11,090

    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Unbelievable!

    Federal judge once again finds for Scientology’s nonexistent and Orwellian ‘arbitration’

    Now we’ve learned that Judge Whittemore has once again rejected the Garcias’ motion to jettison the arbitration order and restore their lawsuit, even though he acknowledges how difficult Scientology is making it for the Garcias to select someone. (Previously, he had acknowledged that Scientology doesn’t really have arbitration procedures and had never done an internal arbitration, but ordered the Garcias to submit themselves to it anyway.)
    http://tonyortega.org/2017/02/15/fed...n-arbitration/
    My Story - Becoming Free to Shine
    QUOTE OF THE YEAR: "I wasn't aware that a documentary (on scientology) was coming out but I'll be sure to not watch it." A Scientologist

  9. Thanks Type4_PTS, Jump says "thank you" for this post
  10. #27
    Shiny Free Crusader Free to shine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    11,090

    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    This is HUGE!

    In an order he released yesterday after a status hearing on Friday, Judge Whittemore has given the Church of Scientology just two weeks to turn over to him the names and contact information for 500 Scientologists in good standing in the Los Angeles area. The judge will then personally choose three people from that list and secure their cooperation to act as arbitrators. And he warned that if he catches either side contacting or responding to the three people he selects, he will hand out sanctions — which could include jail time.

    Can you imagine, a federal judge calling up a Los Angeles Scientologist and asking them to sit on an arbitrating panel, and telling them not to contact the church about it?

    Good luck on that one, judge.
    http://tonyortega.org/2017/04/11/fed...you-interfere/
    My Story - Becoming Free to Shine
    QUOTE OF THE YEAR: "I wasn't aware that a documentary (on scientology) was coming out but I'll be sure to not watch it." A Scientologist

  11. Thanks Type4_PTS, Jump, Dulloldfart, Ogsonofgroo says "thank you" for this post
  12. #28
    Squirrel Extraordinaire Dulloldfart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    North-East England
    Posts
    23,895

    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by Free to shine View Post
    Would it be possible for the identities of the three judge-selected arbitrators to be withheld, so that they not fear repercussions from the mob cult should they try to play fair?

    Paul
    PaulsRobot Iconic now available for use at www.PaulsRobot2.com. With Auto-Report. Video here. Introductory post here. Debug post here. Dipoles post here.

  13. Thanks DonkeyOT says "thank you" for this post
    Likes Type4_PTS, tesseract liked this post
  14. #29
    Patron with Honors tesseract's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    161

    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ortega
    http://tonyortega.org/2017/04/11/fed...you-interfere/

    In an order he released yesterday after a status hearing on Friday, Judge Whittemore has given the Church of Scientology just two weeks to turn over to him the names and contact information for 500 Scientologists in good standing in the Los Angeles area.
    Emphasis mine.


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	unsure disgusted eyeballing + doctor.jpg 
Views:	199 
Size:	22.1 KB 
ID:	13421  
    EVIL GETS THINGS DONE

  15. LOL! dchoiceisalwaysrs laughed at this post
  16. #30
    Gold Meritorious Patron
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    4,199

    Default Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post
    Would it be possible for the identities of the three judge-selected arbitrators to be withheld, so that they not fear repercussions from the mob cult should they try to play fair?

    Paul
    Paul, how silly of you....you know that OSA will be tracking all 500...including their travel arrangements, credit card transactions and locations

  17. Thanks DonkeyOT, cakemaker says "thank you" for this post
Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Babbitt’s Gambit: Recasting Garcia Federal Fraud Lawsuit Against Scientology
    By Type4_PTS in forum Legal and Government Actions Involving Scientology
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 5th September 2014, 05:28 AM
  2. Garcia v Scientology - Federal Fraud Lawsuit - Pre-Trial Hearing - October 2013
    By JBWriter in forum Legal and Government Actions Involving Scientology
    Replies: 69
    Last Post: 20th March 2014, 06:40 AM
  3. France's Highest Court - Scientology is a FRAUD.
    By Churchill in forum General Scientology Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 16th October 2013, 02:47 PM
  4. French High Court to Rule on Scientology Fraud (Again!)
    By jojo in forum France and Belgium
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 4th September 2013, 10:23 PM
  5. Fraud Lawsuit ~ most significant lawsuit in history.
    By Idle Morgue in forum Debbie Cook
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 13th April 2013, 02:49 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •