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Thread: Mark "Marty" Rathbun addresses Tony Ortega, Carmen Llywelyn and Alonzo

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Mark "Marty" Rathbun addresses Tony Ortega, Carmen Llywelyn and Alonzo

    Here's what I don't understand. The complaints against Tony Ortega seem to have as the basic premise that he somehow owes them a duty of care.. He does not, but it seems that some people have felt that he has let them down. I don't really follow The Bunker, but was amazed how many people contribute to a single post. But Carmen Llywelyn seems to suggest that Tony let her down, and while I am sorry she feels like this, am not sure that Tony Ortega ever signed up to be the de facto counsellor for ex scientologists

    I might be missing lots of information though.

    In the early years of Marty's blog, he waxed lyrical about Tony but now they don't seem to be friends. Am not sure whether it's a scientology phenomenon to build someone up, and then knock them down, but Marty has done this also with Ray Jeffrey who has a blog post solely dedicated to his (then) virtues but now is persona non grata, and a very public humiliation.

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  3. #22
    Gold Meritorious Patron Karen#1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mark "Marty" Rathbun addresses Tony Ortega, Carmen Llywelyn and Alonzo

    Quote Originally Posted by ethercat View Post
    What does OSA actually win, though? I mean in the real world, as opposed to their stats, which are meaningless to anyone but themselves and their leader DM?

    What do individuals lose by speaking their minds, even when they disagree with other individuals who are speaking? And what do they gain?
    From the "Targets Defense" policy letter,
    *DEPOPULARIZING* THE ENEMY is a prime policy.

    What does the stat actually represent ? I will tell you.
    Creating festering units of attack on a prime target potentially lowers their credibility.
    Therefore if Tony Ortega is persistently attacked eventually more join the fray so his voice is less listened to.
    The warfare shifts from the Cult as a target to a whistleblower as the target.
    That is what the cult wants and employs. Muddy the waters, stir it all up behind the scenes and have critics fight
    with critics, a distraction from targetting the Cult's crimes


  4. #23
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    Default Re: Mark "Marty" Rathbun addresses Tony Ortega, Carmen Llywelyn and Alonzo

    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSheila View Post
    Wasn't Marty crying about how he wanted to be left alone?

    So he was left alone and that made him angry, so he has to play 'shitstorm lightning rod' again?

    Fuck Marty Rathbun. What a drama queen attention whore.


    I don't get it. Seems like a big clusterfuck with Marty and Alonzo and Miss Tia turning against the deservedly celebrated W4 (Wog-Writer-Warrior-Whistleblower) Tony Ortega.

    I mean, what's not to love about the Underground Bunker, especially when Tony has endlessly effused and emanated exquisitely entertaining & enlightening entheta! LOL

    Maybe Marty is gettin' lonely over there and regrets that his Blog readers all "went away"?











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  5. #24
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    Default Re: Mark "Marty" Rathbun addresses Tony Ortega, Carmen Llywelyn and Alonzo

    How can Alonzo not LOVE all the entheta produced by Tony?

    WTF?
    Im not saying that everyone who is in Scientology is stupid, but I will say that I was purposefully blind for a long time. Paul Haggis

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Mark "Marty" Rathbun addresses Tony Ortega, Carmen Llywelyn and Alonzo

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen#1 View Post
    From the "Targets Defense" policy letter,
    *DEPOPULARIZING* THE ENEMY is a prime policy.

    What does the stat actually represent ? I will tell you.
    Creating festering units of attack on a prime target potentially lowers their credibility.
    Therefore if Tony Ortega is persistently attacked eventually more join the fray so his voice is less listened to.
    The warfare shifts from the Cult as a target to a whistleblower as the target.
    That is what the cult wants and employs. Muddy the waters, stir it all up behind the scenes and have critics fight
    with critics, a distraction from targetting the Cult's crimes

    Well, yes, I understand that, but if people think they have legitimate complaints that might affect others, are they supposed to just shut up about it and not say anything to anyone? Shut up and go away? That is generally not the nature of whistleblowers/critics.

    In the open is better than a whisper campaign, wouldn't you agree?

    Should critics be beyond reproach just because they're critics, or because they're considered "effective" or whatever other adjective can be used to applaud their contributions? Should a critic's behavior or thoughts be dictated by the idea of preventing OSA from achieving their goals?
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  7. #26

    Default Re: Mark "Marty" Rathbun addresses Tony Ortega, Carmen Llywelyn and Alonzo

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen#1 View Post
    A primary statistic of Office of Special Affairs is cut communication lines.

    If HelluvaHoax spat at me and said "karen, go jump in the Lake ! You are hereby blocked" OSA would get a nice stat because a CUT comm line is a primary stat.

    But WAIT.

    Critics on the war path with other critics threatening law suit etc. ~~ Major STAT for OSA.
    It even could be that they in a very covert hidden way, they fanned the flames to precipitate some of it.

    At any rate, when critics and whistleblowers fight, OSA Wins.
    Quote Originally Posted by Karen#1 View Post
    From the "Targets Defense" policy letter,
    *DEPOPULARIZING* THE ENEMY is a prime policy.

    What does the stat actually represent ? I will tell you.
    Creating festering units of attack on a prime target potentially lowers their credibility.
    Therefore if Tony Ortega is persistently attacked eventually more join the fray so his voice is less listened to.
    The warfare shifts from the Cult as a target to a whistleblower as the target.
    That is what the cult wants and employs. Muddy the waters, stir it all up behind the scenes and have critics fight
    with critics, a distraction from targetting the Cult's crimes

    I got that. I heard you. I understand.

    I've been aware of Carmen's complaint against Tony for quite some time. Indeed, since she first made the complaint. I had previously decided not to cross-post it here for the reasons you articulate. I was not entirely comfortable with that decision. Personally, I wish Tony had not said anything about the Radar series about Carmen. IF Carmen is telling the truth (and obviously I have NO idea who is telling the truth), I don't blame her for being pissed. Even if the truth is somehow somewhere in the middle (as is often the case in such situations), the whole thing re: Carmen could have been avoided if Tony had simply said nothing.

    I finally decided to make the cross-post in the OP when the story was already being extensively discussed elsewhere -- i.e., on WWP, Alanzo's blog, on Carmen's blog, on Miss Tia's blog. Sunshine being the best disinfectant and all.

    Please don't get me wrong Karen. I know the schism and resulting discussion does benefit the Church of Scientology. John Sugg, Executive Editor of the Church of Scientology's Freedom Magazine, has already used the situation with Marty and Carmen to attack Tony. At this point, however, I don't see what is gained by ignoring the story. It appears the only people who can resolve the situation are Carmen and Tony, as well as perhaps Alanzo. I don't see Marty and Tony reconciling anytime soon. It appears Alanzo and Miss Tia are concerned solely with Tony's treatment of others.

    Finally, I was paranoid enough (or perhaps knowledgeable about the Church of Scientology enough) to have wondered if Alanzo had been turned, or if the COS had somehow forced "Alanzo" to give it control of the "Alanzo" internet persona, blog and accounts. I understand why Marty is pissed at Tony. I understand why Carmen is pissed at Tony. Miss Tia I understand less, but as I understand it she has mostly just pulled away to preserve her mental and emotional health, which I respect. It is Alanzo who is really acting as an attack dog without any real motivation that I understand. No, in the final analysis I don't think Alanzo has been "turned," nor that his internet persona, blog and accounts appropriated by the Church of Scientology. But it was disturbing to feel forced to consider the possibility for a moment.
    Last edited by CommunicatorIC; 9th June 2016 at 04:00 AM.

  8. #27
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    Default Re: Mark "Marty" Rathbun addresses Tony Ortega, Carmen Llywelyn and Alonzo

    Quote Originally Posted by ethercat View Post
    Well, yes, I understand that, but if people think they have legitimate complaints that might affect others, are they supposed to just shut up about it and not say anything to anyone? Shut up and go away? That is generally not the nature of whistleblowers/critics.

    In the open is better than a whisper campaign, wouldn't you agree?

    Should critics be beyond reproach just because they're critics, or because they're considered "effective" or whatever other adjective can be used to applaud their contributions? Should a critic's behavior or thoughts be dictated by the idea of preventing OSA from achieving their goals?

    NO NO NO !
    My posts have never come even close to suggesting people should shut up.
    But if 90% of their posts exude HATE and ATTACK on a key whistle blower with almost
    nothing said on the Cult, then they are doing OSA's job.

    Sun TZU "The Art of War"

    When you BECOME like your ENEMY, he has won.

  9. #28
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    Default Re: Mark "Marty" Rathbun addresses Tony Ortega, Carmen Llywelyn and Alonzo

    [QUOTE=CommunicatorIC;1102038It is Alonzo who is really acting as an attack dog without any real motivation that I understand. No, in the final analysis I don't think Alonzo has been "turned," nor that his internet persona, blog and accounts appropriated by the Church of Scientology. But it was disturbing to feel forced to consider the possibility for a moment.[/QUOTE]

    Many here on ESMB will recall when Alanzo raved against Marty, day after day. month after month, year after year since Marty's blog emerged in 2009.

    It was an Alanzo "Crusade".

    I can hardly believe the flip flop from Marty's nemesis to Marty's savior and Guardian Angel.

    I tend to find such flip flops un-nerving.

    What do we have here ? is it animal ? vegetable ? mineral ?

    Or perhaps I should say one cannot be Fish and Fowl at the same time..

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  11. #29
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    Default Re: Mark "Marty" Rathbun addresses Tony Ortega, Carmen Llywelyn and Alonzo

    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Karen#1 View Post
    Sun TZU "The Art of War"


    Shun SUE "The Art of Scn"
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    I never felt as free as when I freed myself from "Total Freedom".

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  12. #30
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    Default Re: Mark "Marty" Rathbun addresses Tony Ortega, Carmen Llywelyn and Alonzo

    Yup....name calling happens often with too many. I used to be *very* bad at it, and am still recovering from
    C of $'s paranoia due to witnessing how deep their covert ops run.

    On the Net, the 3 goals of the OSA Int "top secret mafia" are:
    1) Distract off of any *hot* topic, any way...any how.

    2) Degrade any ex's (& critics) they feel are "dangerous". This includes all forms of "divide & conquer". This includes "Fair Game", "Black PR", etc.

    3) lastly is just slime the area...so people literally do not want to post ~there~.

    I get some people don't care. I say IF you see 1, 2 or 3....rather than jumping on the dog pile (A huge win for OSA and "dave")....keep exposing
    The abuses of $cientology!

    I respect everyone's right to communicate. I do think if you have disagreements with someone, try to work it out privately. I admit I have fallen into the same trap, & I regret it each time. I'm sorry to anyone I may have incorrectly hurt.

    I keep working on it. I also thank every.single.person who helps expose the $cientology abuses.
    Much love to ALL! <3 Tory/Magoo
    For those still "in":
    "Leap and the Net will Appear"
    Make the Leap!

    Make it safely and come share your story with us

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