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Thread: Hello New here

  1. #21
    Patron aurabass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello New here

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOriginalBigBlue View Post
    Scientologist's primary goals are to go up the Bridge - to attain spiritual freedom and abilities for themselves, and for every other person on the planet to do the same, and then for every other person, alien, thetan on other planets to go up the Bridge.

    For an individual to go up the Bridge they are handling their own "case" or mental aberrations such as the Reactive Mind and now we know also malevolent BTs (ancient dead alien thetans that glom all over us). Exposure to things that restimulate (reactivate) engrams or old alien implants, etc. are bad for your case. You need to get case corrective actions done which are very expensive and time consuming and often result in getting sent to ethics for handling. Ethics tends to be very unpredictable - imagine someone like Nurse Ratched figuring out what to do with you, maybe she is having a good day, maybe not.

    If you research critics online then you are deliberately choosing to sabotage your own case and also exposing yourself to SPs which makes you PTS (Potential Trouble Source). That means you are willing to sacrifice the success of Scientology which means you are willing to sacrifice the future of the entire planet so that means a sure trip to Ethics and as others have pointed out sec-checks, which aren't classified as private auditing, can easily cost thousands.

    If you researched critics in the old days you could be declared an SP yourself. That was still relatively easy for the Church to manage damage control and gossip but now days there is the ubiquitous internet which is impossible to control so the Church is compelled to come down on it even harder. If you are declared an SP then you lose your good status and access to the only workable spiritual technology in the universe. And of course everyone you know is ordered to Disconnect from you.

    This link answers your question about online criticism:

    http://suppressiveperson.org/about/

    This link takes you down a very deep rabbit hole:

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...l=1#post550308
    That rabbit hole is connected to more warrens than an Aspen grove has roots - but thanks OriginalBigBlue

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  3. #22
    Gold Meritorious Patron TheOriginalBigBlue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello New here

    Quote Originally Posted by aurabass View Post
    thanks Paul,
    From my reading I got the penalties and fear of penalties by the practitioners - ethics, SP, etc.
    I think I get why the rank and file fears ethics and SP doubts are met with punishment. What is more of a puzzle is the apparent illogic in a policy from the top that seems to admit that even superior "clear" OT Scientologists can be polluted or perverted by critics if exposed. That seems to indicate a lack of trust in the "superior minds of the clear spirits". If the power of clear cannot best the reactive criticism - that is, face the criticism and remain impervious and "clear" - it seems to portend a massive problem. Even given the ability to avoid the obvious opponents, the accidental exposure might be unavoidable. In order to operate in the real world contact with opponents is necessary if Clearing the Planet is the goal.

    That brings me to the next problem - If Clearing the Planet is the goal every defection is a setback and it seems the first reaction to any doubt or question is to attack and amplify rather than reason and clarify. Perhaps that is the problem that has resulted in contraction rather than growth. It seems they prefer to eliminate rather than equivocate. So if someone is 75% on board the reaction is to push them out as opposed to being patient or tolerant of lingering doubt. A glass one quarter empty approach for everyone.

    But I get that I am attempting to apply good sense to the senseless. This fear based enforcement system holds zero appeal to this reactive mind. I am reminded of a recent course that taught methods for handling deniers and doubters of climate science. It appears that SCN has zero use for that kind of ability.
    What you are describing is the curious contradiction that we often point to where a Scientologist is someone who starts out pursuing freedom of thought and expression and ends up completely unable to think or speak freely.

    Iím not talking about the way things are under current management - it was like this under LRH. LRH baked so much of it into the cake with his writings and the way he influenced the culture that it is only natural it would escalate over time, especially since there was so much that needed to be kept hidden after he was gone. LRH was paranoid both for purely mental reasons and for very real reasons. He needed to vet people constantly and the entirety of the organization was structured as a kind of vetting machine. He also needed a lot of people and this made it difficult to ensure that everyone could be thoroughly vetted before they got close to him or close to the secrets and power. So I think he became anxious over the vetting at times and implemented pogroms which were destructive and wasteful but if the main goal is to vet people down to the given percent that a narcissistic paranoid can trust then you donít really care about the 75 percent or so that gets wasted.

    When you read between the lines of what LRH wrote, you get that even though he talks the high talk about how much he cares for people - he actually holds a lot of fundamental beliefs that they are inherently debased, corrupted and influenced by all these things that must be purged before they can be near him and to serve him properly. We wonder how much he believed in BTs. Now it appears that he believed in them quite a bit so in his mind we are all infested. How could he trust someone who hadnít been cleansed of BTs when their thoughts and deepest subconscious intentions could be those of their BTs or the BTs might be able to migrate onto LRH himself?

    If you translate the stated goal of "Clearing the planet" into the more practical goal of "Vetting the planet" it all makes much more sense.

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  5. #23
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    Default Re: Hello New here

    Quote Originally Posted by aurabass View Post
    Thank you dchoiceisalwaysrs - I have many questions
    Like Why are Scientologists so afraid of the online criticism from escaped or disaffected former members? Are they so uncertain of their "superior" abilities they fear being dissuaded by those who have not advanced up the bridge?
    Short answer: I don't think I have any direct contact with scientologists and thus not as much direct experience in dealing with and observing their fear of online criticism as I would like to have to answer your question. However, from personal experience of experiencing criticism and or of even questioning there are the fears as explained by others above.
    Generally in life individuals form or latch onto mental and emotional frameworks to build their identities. Scientologist tend to do this in the extreme.
    Immersed in a cult- sure which is almost entirely constructed upon Hubbard who had a lot of traits of malignant maniacal megalomania and narcissism, we, being myself as a scientologist for 37 years and current members, had those traits brought to the surface and or gradually installed by study or example while in Scientology.
    This precipitates a persona or overplayed indentiy which views almost any idea or person of different views as a threat. Fear and phobias become dominate potential dictators of action or if you will re- action or automatic response modes of that honed identity.

    In a lot of cases the person becomes a Ronbot and either attacks as Hubbard was doing in almost all of his articles or lectures, or hides (holds back) or even flees as Hubbard did in his last 30 years of his life.
    So fear, phobias, fighting, lying, exaggeration fraudulent claims all are right by those who believe that finding out or admitting one lives in a castle which possibly be just a hot air balloon could collapse to the ground should the outer world pierce it.

  6. #24
    Operating teatime Jump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hello New here

    Quote Originally Posted by dchoiceisalwaysrs View Post
    Short answer:

    ...

    In a lot of cases the person becomes a Ronbot and either attacks as Hubbard was doing in almost all of his articles or lectures, or hides (holds back) or even flees as Hubbard did in his last 30 years of his life.
    So fear, phobias, fighting, lying, exaggeration fraudulent claims all are right by those who believe that finding out or admitting one lives in a castle which possibly be just a hot air balloon could collapse to the ground should the outer world pierce it.

    Great analogy. Any prizes for guessing where the hot air came from?

    "Of course, if it's true that Mr. Hubbard was never injured during the war,
    then he never did heal himself using Dianetics principles,
    then Dianetics is based on a lie, and then Scientology is based on a lie." - Tommy Davis


  7. #25

    Default Re: Hello New here

    Int Management treats critical thoughts like infectious viruses -- if allowed to infect others, the ideas may spread in disastrous ways. Thus, they take extreme measures to inoculate their people against them, and act against contagion like it was an outbreak of plague.

    And they are right. Imagine if Scientologists really started thoughtfully discussing among themselves the lack of actual abilities gained.
    Find out just what a people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. -- Frederick Douglass

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  9. #26
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    Default Re: Hello New here

    Quote Originally Posted by Jump View Post
    Great analogy. Any prizes for guessing where the hot air came from?
    Thanks

    As to prizes for the hot air pumpers I am sure DM is issuing those to OSA safe pointing staff. Not so sure what he is going to do when the useful idiots find out they have been duped and get him invited into court for misrepresentations.

    Would a copy of that court order framed in all the gold diamonds and other gems of Hubbard's inured cache that disappeared as DM was running his coup be something you would like for the correct SP 15 answer about the original source of the hot foul air? ( be sure to wear a gas mask during your research ;-) )

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  11. #27
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    Default Re: Hello New here

    Quote Originally Posted by Enthetan View Post
    Int Management treats critical thoughts like infectious viruses -- if allowed to infect others, the ideas may spread in disastrous ways. Thus, they take extreme measures to inoculate their people against them, and act against contagion like it was an outbreak of plague.

    And they are right. Imagine if Scientologists really started thoughtfully discussing among themselves the lack of actual abilities gained.
    Let me guess. DM would order all level zero completions onto the False reason and dangerous Rundown.
    I mean exposing the fraudulent claims of Hubbard might snowball into how excited org EDs are totally ecstatic about the one raw public into their idle morgue each week and sending a copy of that stat to A&E to prove Scientology is the fastest growing lie factory of the 3rd millennium!!!

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  13. #28

    Default Re: Hello New here

    ..

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    Last edited by shanesmith; 12th January 2017 at 11:29 AM. Reason: posted in wrong spot - bloody newbie

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