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Thread: FORCED ABORTION

  1. #61
    Patron with Honors hummingbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: FORCED ABORTION

    I found a link to a study, which I posted, then I went back and edit my post. Sorry for any confusion. I just thought we needed statistics on this issue from an institute that surveyed a random group of women, rather than individual testimonies. I'm sure it happens, just in this day and age I like facts.

    Edited to add: The statement surprised me. I've never had one, and have only personally known two women who have. Both of them were in loving, committed relationships. They just could not afford children. And Judge Judy sure showcases a lot of single "baby mommies"!
    But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
    -Friedrich Nietzsche

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  3. #62

    Default Re: FORCED ABORTION

    Quote Originally Posted by hummingbird View Post
    I found a link to a study, which I posted, then I went back and edit my post. Sorry for any confusion. I just thought we needed statistics on this issue from an institute that surveyed a random group of women, rather than individual testimonies. I'm sure it happens, just in this day and age I like facts.

    Edited to add: The statement surprised me. I've never had one, and have only personally known two women who have. Both of them were in loving, committed relationships. They just could not afford children. And Judge Judy sure showcases a lot of single "baby mommies"!
    Thanks. I understand now.

    Surveys have their own built-in errors. Only certain types of people will answer surveys, for starters. Then there is the training of the surveyors themselves - are they taking the time to get the most honest answers possible and how skilled are they at getting a person to talk about such a personal subject without asking leading questions?

    Surveys also must make an effort to address different ethnic, economic and age groups in order to be representative of the entire population, since surveys only question a relatively small number of people. Any survey that does not provide a breakdown of its findings by these groups/populations should be considered suspect as not representative of the larger population.

    Surveys can also be skewed toward what the originator wants the survey to show.

    I didn't read the entire survey, but from what I did read, it lumped some extremely different reasons together as a group and appeared to have pre-stated answers to the questions (i.e., respondents answer A, B, C or D). That would indicate survey bias to me.

    If I really wanted to know why women get abortions, I would:
    1) Survey every woman walking into any abortion clinic in an entire area,
    2) Ask if this was a repeat abortion,
    3) Find out the age, ethnicity and income bracket,
    4) Ask a person's religious beliefs and if they felt there was a conflict. If so, if the religion condoned or prohibited the practice,
    5) Ask the person about partner and family views about the abortion,
    6) Make note of the person accompanying the woman getting an abortion and if this person seemed to be pushing the woman into it,
    7) Ask the woman's reason as an open question, not as a multiple choice response.

    I think that sort of survey would get some eye-popping answers and also some consistency of religions (i.e., scientology) and show a disproportionate number of young women in middle or higher income brackets who don't want their education interrupted, but might as easily say that their parents would disown them or worse if they left college due to pregnancy.
    "Looking back on it I think I got these gains only because the processing made me self reflect and try to repair the damage done by it. So I made gains in spite of Scientology not because of it. It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."

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  4. #63

    Default Re: FORCED ABORTION

    Quote Originally Posted by PJSmith View Post
    The Gospel of Life on Radio Maria: FORCED ABORTION AND SCIENTOLOGY. Topic: Two former Scientologists will talk about forced abortion and intimidation inside the cult. Ask questions on the live show at 866-333-6279 (MARY) or email us ahead of time at info@gospeloflife.com.
    Airing: Tuesday, February 7 at 6 p.m. ET and rebroadcast on Thursday, February 9 at 2 a.m. ET and Monday, February 13 at midnight ET (11 p.m. CT Sunday). Go to www.radiomaria.us to listen online.
    PODCAST: Karen de la Carriere and Claire Headley on Scientology and forced abortions.

    Karen is interviewed during the first half of the show. Claire is interviewed during the second half of the show.

    https://radiomaria.us/february-07-2017-4/


    .

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  6. #64

    Default Re: FORCED ABORTION

    Let's not forget the enforced witch hunt of Scientologist women who also CHOOSE to have abortions. I know teenagers whose lives have been ruined by the religious zealots of Scientology who have told these young girls that if they have abortions they are '1.1'. I know of 3 off the top of my head who, years later have an absolutely shitty life and are barely able to meet rent. I will not condone an organization that surreptitiously capitalises on enforced abortion with just as terrible a crime as enforced pregnancies. NOT YOUR BODY, NOT YOUR CHOICE.

  7. #65
    Sponsor Veda's Avatar
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    Default Re: FORCED ABORTION

    Quote Originally Posted by anon1 View Post

    -snip-

    NOT YOUR BODY, NOT YOUR CHOICE.
    That's true; however, beyond a point there are two beating hearts and two brain wave emitting brains, so that would be two people.
    Visit the Ex Scientologist Message Board web site for selected content from ESMB and more: http://exscn.net/

  8. #66

    Default Re: FORCED ABORTION

    Quote Originally Posted by Veda View Post
    That's true; however, beyond a point there are two beating hearts and two brain wave emitting brains, so that would be two people.
    Not your body, not your choice. Full stop.

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  10. #67
    Sponsor Veda's Avatar
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    Default Re: FORCED ABORTION

    Quote Originally Posted by anon1 View Post
    Not your body, not your choice. Full stop.
    Sorry, when there are two functioning brains there's another person.

    I'm not expressing a view on abortion one way or another. However, this is more complicated than a bumper sticker slogan.

    This thread is not about the nuances of the practice of abortion, and I don't wish to argue that.

    This thread is about coerced abortion in Scientology.
    Visit the Ex Scientologist Message Board web site for selected content from ESMB and more: http://exscn.net/

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  12. #68

    Default Re: FORCED ABORTION

    Quote Originally Posted by Veda View Post
    Sorry, when there are two functioning brains there's another person.

    I'm not expressing a view on abortion one way or another. However, this is more complicated than a bumper sticker slogan.

    This thread is not about the nuances of the practice of abortion, and I don't wish to argue that.

    This thread is about coerced abortion in Scientology.
    There are coerced abortions and coerced anti abortions in Scientology. Both are equally criminal. I have witnessed both first hand. Nobody has a right to tell a woman what to do.

  13. #69

    Default Re: FORCED ABORTION

    Quote Originally Posted by anon1 View Post
    Let's not forget the enforced witch hunt of Scientologist women who also CHOOSE to have abortions. I know teenagers whose lives have been ruined by the religious zealots of Scientology who have told these young girls that if they have abortions they are '1.1'. I know of 3 off the top of my head who, years later have an absolutely shitty life and are barely able to meet rent. I will not condone an organization that surreptitiously capitalises on enforced abortion with just as terrible a crime as enforced pregnancies.
    Scientology uses sex as a mechanism of control.

    "You're a public and had an abortion? You're 1.1, you need sec checking and then do conditions!"

    "You're a Sea Org member and refused to get an abortion? You're out ethics, you need sec checking and then do conditions!"

    Either way, you lose.

    Quote Originally Posted by anon1 View Post
    NOT YOUR BODY, NOT YOUR CHOICE.
    If it's her body, and she has exclusive choice, to the exclusion of all other potential interested parties, including the father, then shouldn't she have exclusive responsibility for her choice? Should the father have a choice too, as in being able to "abort" any financial responsibility for child support?
    “The man who does not value himself, cannot value anything or anyone.”
    ― Ayn Rand,

  14. #70

    Default Re: FORCED ABORTION

    Quote Originally Posted by Enthetan View Post
    Scientology uses sex as a mechanism of control.

    "You're a public and had an abortion? You're 1.1, you need sec checking and then do conditions!"

    "You're a Sea Org member and refused to get an abortion? You're out ethics, you need sec checking and then do conditions!"

    Either way, you lose.



    If it's her body, and she has exclusive choice, to the exclusion of all other potential interested parties, including the father, then shouldn't she have exclusive responsibility for her choice? Should the father have a choice too, as in being able to "abort" any financial responsibility for child support?
    I will not draw parallels between financial obligations and gestating a baby/dropping your entire life as a mother in order to now focus on another human being. Fathers can abort their financial obligation, sometimes mothers seek legal recourse but mostly they don't.

    Any organisation, church etc which sticks its nose in women's issues further than being a shoulder to lean on should be prosecuted.

    I grew up without a father. He was on staff and wasn't able to pay child support so my mother refused to let him see me. I used to hate my mum for doing that to me and to a degree I still think she should have let him see me. But since leaving the church I have felt more anger towards my dad for choosing staff over his kids. Anyhow, it's sad because now he is ageing and I don't have a relationship with him.

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