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Thread: Leah Remini Finale

  1. #101

    Default Re: Leah Remini Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by aurabass View Post
    If there are now something under 30,000 active practicing SCN loyal to DM worldwide is that number higher or lower than the total of EX SCN both who value the tech and who want total elimination?
    https://disqus.com/by/John314159/?

    Re numbers: this is a direct link to the Disqus profile of John P. Capitalist, the hedgefond manager who does financial estimations and often posts at The Underground Bunker (Tony Ortega's blog). Scroll down to load a lot of posts, then use the browser to search for terms like "numbers", "members", "membership", or "basics" (book sales).

    A recent defector, I forgot who, had good information about the numbers of "basics" packages sold, which where pushed for a long time on ALL Scientologists. That number, too, was ridiculously low; particularly if taking into consideration that members were urged to buy more than one box (which many did). The members who didn't buy any either must have been in very bad financial shape or can be considered as "under the radar" type members, with little or no belief left and no sympathy for CoS, yet trying to keep a low profile for example so as not to have their family torn apart by disconnection from family members who too are Scientologists and are still take orders from CoS.

    Another good indicator for membership numbers and also the percentage of "under the radar" members is the attendance at events. For big events, like the opening of the "Super Power" building, was and is put enormous pressure on ALL Scientologists worldwide, staff and public, to attend, but even then they didn't scrape up more than 10000 or so.
    EVIL GETS THINGS DONE

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Leah Remini Finale

    The actual John P. quote is below. I hope he doesn't mind me copying it here in full.

    https://disqus.com/home/discussion/t...ent-3057108421

    Thanks for missing me. I haven't really gone anywhere... adopted a policy (so to speak) a while ago that I'd only post if I thought I had something different to say. I feel the same outrage as anybody reading an article like yesterday's story about Claire Reppen and the cult's abuse of elderly staff. However, I'm far less capable at writing from the heart to talk about those things than those who have been there or those who have had relatives chewed up and spit out by the cult this way. At times like that, anything that I could write would only distract from, rather than showcase, those far more powerful from-the-heart sentiments.

    As far as this year's shrinkage, I would say it's actually less than in previous years. I've said a couple times in the last year or so that the rate of decay goes logarithmic, not exponential. I think that's consistent with most other cult-like organizations: as they get more out of touch with reality and have to retreat into ever more walled-off isolation from the world, the members that are left are the most hard-core of all. Every member who leaves after a certain point is the least hard-core member in the group.

    I think Scientology is at that point, at least for the "gung ho" members that show up for things like OT Committee meetings, or that travel to Flag for "processing." The "take-it-or-leave-it" crowd, who thought Scientology was useful, but who didn't cross the line into being True Believers, are all gone.

    I do think that a sizable percentage of those who are still considered Scientologists by the cult are those who are sometimes called "sideliners" or in other places "under the radar." These are people who no longer believe in the "tech" or who wish they weren't involved in the cult but who put up a facade of involvement greater than what they really feel in order to protect relationships with kids in the Sea Org, to protect businesses that mostly sell to Scientologists (such as a chiropractor whose patients are mostly in the cult), and the like.

    I thus believe the number of voluntary defections from the cult is lower this year than last. I haven't done the numbers with any real degree of rigor in a while, but I'd guess that membership went down by less than 1,000 this year, based on a prior estimate of 17,000 members and 5,000 staff worldwide. And a non-trivial number of the people leaving the cult this year did so in a box with six handles (i.e., they died).

    My suspicion is that an increasing percentage of those leaving the cult in the next few years will be doing so due to death rather than due to dissatisfaction. That's just where the cult is in its evolutionary trajectory.

    Thus, at this point, the key thing for us to do is to keep up the heat to prevent anyone new from joining this organization and going down the rabbit hole. Certainly, Leah's show is a nice boost there, but all of us working together can continue to keep the heat on in additional ways, any of which can suddenly spark into flame and inflict more damage on the organization.

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  4. #103
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    Default Re: Leah Remini Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by programmer_guy View Post
    I politely disagree.
    I would rather read from Caroline on her own experiences and what has happened with her and not her frequent wall-of-text about what Gerry has said. Gerry should post here for himself.

    I prefer Caroline talking for herself in her own opinions and experiences in her own words, not just quoting Gerry.

    That's my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by I told you I was trouble View Post
    Fair enough ... I think we would all prefer that, it was just an idea ...
    Thanks. None of us really roll exactly that way, though. Communicator I/C doesn't post Gerry's articles, which are on-topic, so I try to take up the slack.

    I was also interested in how Leah addressed the issue of bi-polar disorder in the Finale.

    According to Brandon Reisdorf, two Scientologists on church instructions locked him up 24/7 for 6 weeks at their home [*] while they delivered the Introspection Rundown to him.
    [*] Where the IRD is delivered had great significance in the Lisa McPherson case. (I was for a short time a designated expert in the civil case.) But for this thread...

    Brandon said he was in a manic episode, experiencing among other things, hallucinations. According to this reference on bipolar disorder, Brandon's case would have been "severe." Brandon did not include any auditing steps in his description of the IRD. He was so fortunate, unlike Lisa, to have survived this inhumane treatment.

    Quote Originally Posted by From an informal transcript of Leah Remini Finale


    Mike Rinder: After Lois and Gary left the Sea Organization, they maintained a low profile for 30 years, with the idea that would allow Lois to maintain the relationship with her family who were still very prominent Scientologists in South Africa.

    Unfortunately, that left the door open for their sons to kind of get involved in Scientology.

    Lois Reisdorf: Brandon got involved mainly because of us. From a psychiatry point of view, he had bi-polar issues. But we didn't even know that at that time. All we knew is that he was having problems.

    So even though we had left the church, we were trying to handle it with Scientology.

    [Scientology promotional video]

    Leah Remini: The Scientologists don't believe in mental conditions being treated with drugs. They believe they have the answer. And so they will handle this disorder with Scientology auditing, assists and/or vitamins.

    So they believe that they know what they're doing.

    Mike Rinder: Scientology hates psychiatry so much because L. Ron Hubbard said that Scientologists should hate psychiatry. L. Ron Hubbard offered Dianetics to the American Medical Association and American Psychiatric Association in 1950, and they laughed at him.

    He then determined that they were the enemies of mankind.

    And so that became the sort of enemy that every Scientologist loves to hate.

    Gary Reisdorf: One thing, you know, in 35 years, that stuck with me is, I'm still like a little bit worrisome about psychiatrists. So our only solution, even though we are out of it, we used the Introspection Rundown.

    [Screen: INTROSPECTION RUNDOWN

    Scientology's method of treating a psychotic episode wherein the subject is isolated then put through rigorous auditing.]


    Leah Remini: The church of Scientology says that they have a, a solution to mental illness.

    And it's called the what?

    Gary Reisdorf: Introspection Rundown. And it doesn't work.

    Leah Remini: Okay. So they have this thing called the Introspection Rundown. They're very aware of your son's mental illness or possibility of it.

    Lois and Gary: Yes.

    Leah Remini: They say, "This thing will handle that."

    Gary: Exactly. To make a long story short, he came back I believe in worse shape than when he went.

    Leah Remini: It worsened his condition?

    Gary: We had him better with just vitamins and walking and fresh air, and you know, just loving him.* Loving him and somebody being a really good mom.

    [After completing the Introspection Rundown, Brandon joined his brother on the staff of the San Diego church of Scientology]


    [...]


    [Screen: BRANDON REISDORF

    FORMER SCIENTOLOGIST]


    Leah Remini: From my understanding, there was something going on with you.

    Brandon Reisdorf: In 2012, I was going through a manic episode. And it was an undiagnosed bipolar episode at the time. Much later I did get diagnosed by real doctors.

    Leah Remini: Yeah.

    Brandon Reisdorf: When I experience a manic episode, you're like hallucinating, right? And you're not sleeping, and it's like, almost like a dream world that you're in mentally. And it's just, there's different ideas and thoughts about situations that are distorted than what reality is. I just can't control when that happens like what's going through my mind and what's coming out of my mouth and what I do.

    Being born into Scientology, it's kind of passed on that psychiatry is not the answer to any spiritual problems or mental problems or whatever. And so the church gave me their solution to that problem, which is called the Introspection Rundown.

    Leah Remini: So this Introspection Rundown. So take me through this.

    Brandon Reisdorf: So I was at the home of two Scientologists. And they're both trained in this process that they were delivering to me. And so I was there for about 6 weeks. And was, they were watching me basically 24 hours around the clock.

    Leah Remini: What is it? They give you a meal and they don't speak to you? How does that, how does it work?

    Brandon Reisdorf: Uh, I was locked in a room for 24 hours a day, experiencing craziness in my mind. It was just colors, and pictures and hallucinations--

    Leah Remini: And in this time, you're getting no medical care.

    Brandon Reisdorf: <shakes head no>

    Leah Remini: What is this solution that Scientology has to make you not have this disorder.

    Brandon Reisdorf: To just let it go and, they claim it'll run out eventually. And then you're fine again. It's hard to explain. I was, should have been in a psychiatric hospital.

    Mike Rinder: The Introspection Rundown is a quote "breakthrough" that L. Ron Hubbard made where he took one individual who was having a psychotic episode and locked him in a room and kept him without anybody speaking to him for perhaps a week, until he stopped screaming and yelling and going crazy.

    And Hubbard said that, "I have now found the cure for psychosis."

    [Screen: For four years after he completed the Introspection Rundown, Brandon's bipolar disorder remained undiagnosed. Brandon continued to be an active member of the Church, along with his brother Craig]
    *The Reisdorfs' "handling" for Brandon sounds more or less consistent with a PAB 6 program. (Ref. Professional Auditor's Bulletin 6 [ca. end July 1953] Case Opening. Technical Bulletins Vol II, 1991 ed. pp. 166-9.) Here's some excerpts that go into Hubbard's theory.

    Scientologists accepting Hubbard's Introspection Rundown have to accept the underlying theory of psychosis and how it relates to the SP doctrine.

    The Guardian Order Leah included in the Finale indoctrinates high level Scientologsts, the ones who are really in control of managing these Type 3 handlings, and reporting to RTC. Keep in mind that "Any person who acts Type III PTS (Potential Trouble Source)" is a "Matter of RTC (Ethics) Concern." http://www.rtc.org/matters/ethics.html

    Quote Originally Posted by L. Ron Hubbard
    SITUATION: Those who attack Scientology as proven by Oxford Capacity Analysis graphs, criminal or shady record, personal lives etc., are provenly suppressive. When such people, as is currently common, ascend into the heights of governments or public or private organizations, or the press, they are able to exert the fullest dramatization against anything which might benefit others and usually do.

    Being suppressive (a kind word for insane) their aims are destructive.

    This is not limited to their fancied enemies. They are destructive to themselves and their own government or institution. This is well known to us. But there IS a situation in it which has not been solved.

    WHEN YOU THREATEN TO UPSET THINGS WITH A COUNTERATTACK THIS IS PLEASING TO SUCH PEOPLE AND THEY GO ON ATTACKING AS THEY WANT THEIR OWN GOVT OR INSTITUTION ACTIVITY ATTACKED.

    In other words, one plays into their hands. They WANT riot and civil commotion.

    Also, by the laws of insanity (see HCO B 29 Nov 70, C/S Series 22, PSYCHOSIS) they also want themselves destroyed.

    This is also known as "being selected as somebody's executioner."

    The more you attack, the more such people goad one.

    This is the true principle behind Clausewitz's "laws of war" in which attack gets counterattack.

    Such people are suicidal.

    [...]

    From GO 28 March 1972 COUNTER ATTACK TACTICS
    "they also want themselves destroyed." What an upside down, inside out, and backward justification for the Scientologists' crimes and abuses. Did Brandon Reisdorf really want to destroy himself? Did Gerry Armstrong really want to destroy himself? What a hateful and false image to project onto their victims.

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  6. #104
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    Default Re: Leah Remini Finale

    Posts from this thread concerning Gerry Armstrong now have their own thread.
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...erry-Armstrong

    Mod 3375

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