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Thread: Responsible for Your own Condition?

  1. #31
    BT-free since 2003! EZ Linus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Responsible for Your own Condition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demented Hubbatd View Post
    I have recently reread A History of Man for the purpose of exploring Hubbard's mental illness. The phrase doesn't come from this book. Also, it doesn't come from the Dianetics Volumes. Perhaps, it comes from the red volumes which include Phoenix Lectures, Philadelphia Doctorate Course and other crap. When I was involved with CoS, I heard this phrase many times, although no one seemed to know where it came from.
    That helps a lot, thank you. I too would assume it would've to come from the PTS/SP data info. Now I wonder if I read it in the Ethics book (like, over and over)? I was on staff, so it could have been in any number of places, but I really believe it is in something that every one has read, like the Tech Dictionary or the Ethics book or the PTS/SP course. If I can't find the exact source of it, I can just say that it is a "motto among Scientologists and expected of you as a member." Something like that, and if I have to get into it more, I'll start talking about SerFacs. Many other people that have written books before me have been able to get around this. I can always see how they handled it.

    Gosh I even almost remember reading, or at least listening to a lecture before clay demoing a "Service Facsimile" and the example being - something like - Bill (seemingly out of nowhere) punching you in the face and how this really had nothing to do with Bill at all (in regards to you and your responsibility). This was all about pulling things in and having overts on Bill. This seems to tie into being responsible for your own condition, as someone mentioned SerFacs possibly including that information.

    It had to be written somewhere. "Verbal data" and all that, you know? We read it somewhere.

    Someone else said -- sorry I'm not too great at keeping track of your handles - that taking certain concepts to the extreme (choosing to do that as a Scientologist) is koo-koo, but I do not believe that your run-of-the-mill public Scientologist would know they had to take this concept to the extreme unless they were faced with grim circumstances, i.e.: terminal illness, forced disconnections, or when suddenly Scientology justice or tech didn't work in their favor.

    Let's say you inform the Ethics officer that you have a neurological disease and you'd like to use your money on account to help you and they say, "Sorry, you pulled in this illness and you can not receive any more auditing." No refunds, Bye!

    Why, that's just koo-koo!

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  3. #32
    Crusader Mimsey Borogrove's Avatar
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    Default Re: Responsible for Your own Condition?

    Quote Originally Posted by EZ Linus View Post
    That helps a lot, thank you. I too would assume it would've to come from the PTS/SP data info. Now I wonder if I read it in the Ethics book (like, over and over)? I was on staff, so it could have been in any number of places, but I really believe it is in something that every one has read, like the Tech Dictionary or the Ethics book or the PTS/SP course. If I can't find the exact source of it, I can just say that it is a "motto among Scientologists and expected of you as a member." Something like that, and if I have to get into it more, I'll start talking about SerFacs. Many other people that have written books before me have been able to get around this. I can always see how they handled it.

    Gosh I even almost remember reading, or at least listening to a lecture before clay demoing a "Service Facsimile" and the example being - something like - Bill (seemingly out of nowhere) punching you in the face and how this really had nothing to do with Bill at all (in regards to you and your responsibility). This was all about pulling things in and having overts on Bill. This seems to tie into being responsible for your own condition, as someone mentioned SerFacs possibly including that information.

    It had to be written somewhere. "Verbal data" and all that, you know? We read it somewhere.

    Someone else said -- sorry I'm not too great at keeping track of your handles - that taking certain concepts to the extreme (choosing to do that as a Scientologist) is koo-koo, but I do not believe that your run-of-the-mill public Scientologist would know they had to take this concept to the extreme unless they were faced with grim circumstances, i.e.: terminal illness, forced disconnections, or when suddenly Scientology justice or tech didn't work in their favor.

    Let's say you inform the Ethics officer that you have a neurological disease and you'd like to use your money on account to help you and they say, "Sorry, you pulled in this illness and you can not receive any more auditing." No refunds, Bye!

    Why, that's just koo-koo!
    Try the management dictionary. I think it's green and white, probably in the same pl as no case on post.

    Mimsey

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  5. #33
    True Ex-Scientologist programmer_guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Responsible for Your own Condition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimsey Borogrove View Post
    I like the basic concept of You are entirely responsible for your own condition - but with reservations - I don't believe that means that if your car gets hit by a drunk driver and you end up in the hospital with multiple cuts and contusions it is your fault. That is crazy town think. That's where IMO Scientologists err - they take it to extremes that make no sense. If I fuck up on a job, that's my bad, and viewed in that light - taking responsibility for things in my own sphere of influence, it is a good thing. Beyond that - it is Koo Koo.

    Mimsey

    And taking responsibility, in collaboration, with another for their own condition (i.e. helping another).

    I was going back to my car from a store and a woman was in her car on her cell phone 911.
    She said to me that she was having a heart attack and had difficulty breathing.
    She was trying to provide her exact location to 911.
    I ran to the building to see the exact address and came back to tell her.
    She then provided the exact address.
    I stood by her car waiting for an ambulance or fire truck to come.
    When the fire truck appeared in the parking lot... it paused... looking around.
    I waved my arms over my head to get their attention. They came to us.

    "Responsibility for another's condition", also known as empathy.
    The emphasis on finding and describing "knowledge structures" that are somewhere "inside" the individual encourages us to overlook the fact that human cognition is always situated in a complex sociocultural world and cannot be unaffected by it. - Edwin Hutchins
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Hutchins

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  7. #34
    Gold Meritorious Sponsor HelluvaHoax!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Responsible for Your own Condition?

    The entire "responsible for your condition" concept is broadly explored from 1950-1965 in the RECORDED HUBBARD LECTURES.

    From those lectures (some bearing a title phrase that includes the word "responsibility") there were countless derivative HCOBS, POLICIES, SCALES and other references. These generally fall into one of two categories:

    1) ACTUAL VERBATIM QUOTES

    2) ADAPTATIONS OF THOSE QUOTES IN SCIENTOLOGY CULTURE & PRACTICE (e.g. Ethics Officers, Com Evs, Justice procedures, Declares, et al)


    In "2", above, the quote is used to form a new concept that either DEMANDS or PROHIBITS a Scientologist from doing a specific thing that another authoritative Scientologist arbitrarily decided they don't want done. In essence, the concept of "Total Responsibility" can be used to blame someone for anything, bust someone for anything, demand obedience, coerce money and whatever else the "senior" Scientologist arbitrarily demands of you.

    "Responsibility" (as it is used in Scientology) is simply another tool of control. And "Total Responsibility", like other meaningless marketing jingles (e.g. "Total Freedom", "Total Cause Over Life", et al) is just an idealized, non-existent state of perfection that can be used to compare humans with. A human can never favorably compare to the supernatural standards of cosmically advanced OTs like Hubbard/Miscavige who are taking "total responsibility" for the planet and...this sector.

    The Scientologist has bought into the mythology that they are in a state of nightmarish degradation from their miraculously majestic god-like state back trillions of years ago. They accept this as a normal idea. Everything after that leads them to the conclusion that they are living in a constant and chronic state of "RUIN".

    That's the idea at the core. If a being can be "ruined" (per the Dissemination Formula) they can be immediately forced, coerced and manipulated into paying for more Scientology. The word "responsibility" is perhaps the single most important word in the role-playing rituals of Scientology wherein a homo sapiens awakens and takes control of their entire life and everyone/everything within the nightmarish MEST universe. It's a primitive religious rite of passage and Scientologists call these moments "End Phenomena".
    ________________________

    Scientology literally saved my life! Without Ron's books I would have frozen to death!!! (see avatar)

    Scientology in one word? HelluvaHoax!

    I never felt as free as when I freed myself from "Total Freedom".

    For offended Scientologists reading this blasphemy about L. Ron Hubbard---my apologies for talking about real life without lying to you, like Scientology, with goo-goo theta-talk. I know you don't have a floating needle right now. You're not supposed to.

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  9. #35
    Silver Meritorious Patron Elronius of Marcabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Responsible for Your own Condition?

    This is one of those ridiculous statement's made by WhoBird like sky
    is blue water is wet that is applauded by the faithful, yeah it's true
    and so what
    And what do you call it when a condescending asshole walks in and starts preaching from
    the delusional works of an even bigger asshole ?
    "Standard Scientology"

  10. #36
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    Default Re: Responsible for Your own Condition?

    Perhaps I'm working out my own cognitive dissonance, but I see this as a very helpful thought.

    It's the difference between Responsibility and Blame.

    A kid is born into a ghetto in an American city. He has a horrific environment with lousy schools, crime, gangs etc to deal with...

    This kid is certainly not to Blame for his condition, but who is most intimately Responsible for his condition? He is. He is the one who, best, can control his actions, choices and decisions that can get him out of his situation and in to a better one.

    This can be empowering.

    To confuse this with being a victim is dis-empowering.

    I recently got fired from my job. My boss, the top dude in the branch of the company I worked at chucked me out.

    The reasons he gave for dumping were completely fatuous and fraudulent. But, no matter, it worked.

    Now, I could be a "victim" and whine about it or be (sorry) Causative and assume Responsibility for my condition and do something about it (get another job) and say "fuck him!")

    As I left the office, with my box (of personal stuff) in hand, bumped into the head of HR and my boss'es boss, the VP for the region and told him "It's a good thing you hired this guy (my boss) because it took him, after a year or so on the, job to figure out that after 26 3/4 years that I was incompetent!!

    Am I to Blame for this situation? No. Am I responsible for it? Yes. I have to do something about it. Not someone else.

    Jack
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.

    "You remember only about the brass ring
    You forget all about the golden rule"
    -Bob Dylan Gonna Change My Way of Thinking

    Every thing secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity.
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  12. #37
    Goodby Goodluck
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    Default Re: Responsible for Your own Condition?

    This the church of broken promises lame attempt to absolve themselves of its failure to deliver you to the promissed land of clear and OT after dumping you off in la la land instead.
    Crack cocaine and booze are gateway drugs to Scientology

  13. #38
    BT-free since 2003! EZ Linus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Responsible for Your own Condition?

    Quote Originally Posted by JackStraw View Post
    Perhaps I'm working out my own cognitive dissonance, but I see this as a very helpful thought.

    It's the difference between Responsibility and Blame.

    A kid is born into a ghetto in an American city. He has a horrific environment with lousy schools, crime, gangs etc to deal with...

    This kid is certainly not to Blame for his condition, but who is most intimately Responsible for his condition? He is. He is the one who, best, can control his actions, choices and decisions that can get him out of his situation and in to a better one.

    This can be empowering.

    To confuse this with being a victim is dis-empowering.

    I recently got fired from my job. My boss, the top dude in the branch of the company I worked at chucked me out.

    The reasons he gave for dumping were completely fatuous and fraudulent. But, no matter, it worked.

    Now, I could be a "victim" and whine about it or be (sorry) Causative and assume Responsibility for my condition and do something about it (get another job) and say "fuck him!")

    As I left the office, with my box (of personal stuff) in hand, bumped into the head of HR and my boss'es boss, the VP for the region and told him "It's a good thing you hired this guy (my boss) because it took him, after a year or so on the, job to figure out that after 26 3/4 years that I was incompetent!!

    Am I to Blame for this situation? No. Am I responsible for it? Yes. I have to do something about it. Not someone else.

    Jack
    Well, I don't know if I'd use this kid being born in the ghetto and being responsible for getting himself out of it scenario. Now we're getting into a kind of eco-political ideology, and real reality not being taken into account. People may forget the details of such things because of how easy their own resources have been to come by or be blinded by the ease of their own circumstances. You can't use the same barometer here.


    Anyway, I wanted to come back and just mention how, with other tenets like, being "pan-determined" and the whole "greatest good" deal, these three concepts together can really fuck a person up and make them feel like they have to be a superhero. The ultimate superhero victim of the cult if you ask me, or survivor, if you will, (for those of us that got out).

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  15. #39
    Maximus Ultimus Mostimus Dave B.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Responsible for Your own Condition?

    It's really simple: Something bad happens to $cientology or it's fearless leader = SP's. Something bad happens to you = it's your fault, what are your overts? Pay us to find out.
    "You should not get the subject of individual improvement and religious experience confused with the social activity of large groups grinding up against each other. It is not worth your time. The groups come and go. The individuals don't. There have been many groups and civilizations, and there will be many more of them, but a decent individual is a relatively permanent thing." - Geoffrey C. Filbert 1982

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