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Thread: A test of whole track recall

  1. #511
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    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    Thats a great and long thread! Just read the first 30
    or so posts so far. It was great to read posts from those
    highly trained and experienced in auditing. In general, so
    far, the consensus seems to be that Out/Int may be
    workable to address or more often gets screwed up and
    the Scn theory is flakey at best. A brief selection here:-


    Quote Originally Posted by Panda Termint

    "Words to that effect" would be right, no Auditor or Correction List asks about Out Int in that way.
    Many people read on Out Int? simply because they don't understand what the question means.

    In answer to Paul's original question; my opinion is "both". Sometimes it's actual sometimes it's imagined.

    I have known many Staff Members who were very glad to have Out Int? reading, it obviated Sec-Checking.

    On the other hand I have delivered numerous Int RDs to, what the PCs considered, life-changing results. Go figure.

    Another from Panda

    "IMO, it's as real a condition as any scientology-based condition.
    Some would probably call it a scientology-installed condition or phobia (you don't hear too many people in everyday life saying they have Out Int but you sure do hear them saying the Int Buttons)."

    "It is my experience (at least it was what I believed to be true at the time) that auditing anything (other than Int remedies) over Out Int tended to be difficult and sometimes downright torturous for the PC. Often Out Int would be discovered as a valid read on assessing a Correction List when Auditing had become arduous for the PC. Regardless of whether or not doubters might choose to disbelieve that it was the actual reason, remedying Out Int usually remedied the PC's difficulties in auditing. That's just an empirical observation from a guy that did a lot of auditing.

    As a bit of additional data to your core question, I have never once (even when I was a scientologist) believed that being Interior or Exterior involved a Being changing location. I have always seen it as a Being changing the consideration about how much space he was willing and able to permeate. "



    Div6
    "Out-Int is a very real condition (imo), and one which is flubbed in handling consistently. Part of the problem is that people invalidate themselves on "being exterior", as if it was some mysterious thing.

    Then as Paul mentioned, to get it "handled" you need the rarest of breeds of auditor...in the meantime you cant get any other kind of auditing until it is "handled". And even then, "Int" is considered a "remedy"....you handle it to the point it isn't bothering the person any more. But that doesn't mean it won't kick in again, later on. It used to be, after an SO "production mission" came through our org, most of our execs would go "out-int" from all of the forcefull yelling that had occurred, to get them to "raise necessity level", and get their stats up. Ugh...

    And then there is another aspect of this that I haven't heard anyone else comment upon. In the NOT's materials, there are MORE Int Buttons to use to assess\handle than there are on the C\S 53. The handling of "Int" is a huge factor on NOTs, where LRH mentioned that "Out-Int" is the genus of "BT's".

    I think I had 3 "End of Endless Int" rundowns, a Full Int Rundown with R3RA (which was a great action, and the one I went "clear" on) and then have had to address it again on the solo grades....it is simply a condition that needs to be addressed so that further auditing can occur. On solo, it is usually very simple to address, and it has none of the "one week stability check" nonsense that is there in the lower grades....

    It can be some of the heaviest "charge" a person can sit in...it can be so easily remedied that you really have to wonder why it is made so difficult and "scarce" to train on it and handle it. I have seen it kick in early on the grade chart, so it tends to run with a bit of unreality early on, as the pc's tend to run shallow and are still skittish about dealing with "mental image pictures".


    OMG, did you post that drunk? LOL

    I tried to read that post twice. No clue whatsoever what you or your quoted "highly trained" experts are talking about. What incredible gibberish!

    EXAMPLE:

    "Thats a great and long thread! Just read the first 30
    or so posts so far. It was great to read posts from those
    highly trained and experienced in auditing. In general, so
    far, the consensus seems to be that Out/Int may be
    workable to address or more often gets screwed up and
    the Scn theory is flakey at best.
    "

    HELPFUL TIP: There is an exciting new language tool. It's called "SENTENCES". The big breakthrough is that arranging words in an ordered/comprehendible structure works better than the previous system of communication used by prehistoric hominids--that relied mostly on grunts, hand signals or force.
    ________________________

    Scientology literally saved my life! Without Ron's books I would have frozen to death!!! (see avatar)

    Scientology in one word? HelluvaHoax!

    I never felt as free as when I freed myself from "Total Freedom".

    For offended Scientologists reading this blasphemy about L. Ron Hubbard---my apologies for talking about real life without lying to you, like Scientology, with goo-goo theta-talk. I know you don't have a floating needle right now. You're not supposed to.

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  3. #512
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    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimsey Borogrove View Post
    Are you sure the current missions are applying the tech in the same way as the old ones? If they are, then it is the public's negative perception that is destroying them.

    I know this is a long thread, and things said are buried amongst the many comments, but I said a similar thing previously, that I thought when I was newly out of Scientology, a research project should be done, to evaluate which processes did what, which worked, which didn't, and were I to win the lottery, I would do so. My idea was to run non-scientologists on the various processes, so you would have an unbiased feedback and evaluation of the worth of the technology.

    But who would pay for such an endeavor? Scientology has no desire to improve itself, though they could easily afford such a project.

    Mimsey
    Yeah, I believed the same thing when I was newly out and still half a believer.

    Now I know that, with a very few exceptions, "what is good in Scientology is not new and what is new in Scientology is not good."

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  5. #513
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    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimsey Borogrove View Post
    Are you sure the current missions are applying the tech in the same way as the old ones? If they are, then it is the public's negative perception that is destroying them.

    I know this is a long thread, and things said are buried amongst the many comments, but I said a similar thing previously, that I thought when I was newly out of Scientology, a research project should be done, to evaluate which processes did what, which worked, which didn't, and were I to win the lottery, I would do so. My idea was to run non-scientologists on the various processes, so you would have an unbiased feedback and evaluation of the worth of the technology.

    But who would pay for such an endeavor? Scientology has no desire to improve itself, though they could easily afford such a project.

    Mimsey

    Good news! I sent your questions uplines and we just now received a telex with all the answers!


    "Are you sure the current missions are applying the tech in the same way as the old ones? "
    ANSWER: Yes, precisely the same tech. Precisely the same commands. Precisely the same end phenomena for each process. And, precisely the same grade chart results! (No Clears. No OTs)


    "...a research project should be done, to evaluate which processes did what, which worked, which didn't."


    ANSWER: There was, in fact, a vastly comprehensive research project done on this already. Dr. Hubbard and an inordinate number of professional auditors across the world conducted clinical trials from 1950 to 1986. Hubbard found that every process, grade and OT level did not work. He therefore continued to change the theories, commands and processes every few months for over a third of a century. Even the Grade Chart map itself (despite all his hyperbolically breathless "discoveries" that "removed the final barrier to Clearing/OT") was changed so often and completely that it had to be thrown out and begun anew. Each new "Bridge" to Clear, Exterior or OT was unrecognizable to the previous "100% workable technology". To wit, look around today and one won't find any "One Shot Clear", "Route I", "Route II", "GPM Line Plot", "Rising Scale Processing", "Black and White Processing", "Grand Tour", "What To Audit" (incidents described in History of Man), "Expanded Dianetics" (evil purpose auditing), "OT V" and "OT VI" (the old ones that drilled the thetan exterior on supernatural powers), et al.

    CONCLUSION: The processes did not work. That's why 99% of Scientologists blew. That's why Scientology now has turned its attention and resources to ruthlessly fraudulent donation schemes and scams that keep the few remaining "loyal officers" misdirected and distracted enough to forget the other cruel hoax called Clear and OT.
    ________________________

    Scientology literally saved my life! Without Ron's books I would have frozen to death!!! (see avatar)

    Scientology in one word? HelluvaHoax!

    I never felt as free as when I freed myself from "Total Freedom".

    For offended Scientologists reading this blasphemy about L. Ron Hubbard---my apologies for talking about real life without lying to you, like Scientology, with goo-goo theta-talk. I know you don't have a floating needle right now. You're not supposed to.

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  7. #514

    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    Yes my statements do seem contradictory.

    I shall try and describe more accurately.

    When I do what I've referred to as go exterior what I see
    is what my eyes see. Except everything seems further
    away, and a bit smaller. Associated with that, after I got
    over being scared, was a feeling of greater control and cause.
    And I eventually after 8 years could go to that state at will.

    The nearest description I've seen for that is Hubbards 3 ft back
    of ones head. Maybe its more than 3 feet? Also Hubbard
    stated that one can handle things better in such a state. Can't
    recall his exact wording of that, but I also experienced that.

    You may recall the expression " use it or lose it". That
    happened to me. I'd solved the problem of compulsively
    going exterior, or perhaps more accurately not having
    control of doing so. So I didn't bother trying much after that.
    That's a much better description of your childhood experience, Terril, thanks.

    According to your statement above, you experienced a change of perception that made you feel more in control. You also did not know what else to call it so years later, when you read what L Ron Hubbard wrote about ''3 feet back of one's head," you called your childhood experience that. According to your earlier posts, it did not involve any special abilities, such as healing, reading cards, etc, and you feel you can still do this now.

    It probably felt good to feel you had found some sort of explanation for something strange that you experienced.

    Other people that may have experienced something similar but did not study Scientology would have found other explanations for it, do you agree?

    Some might think that sort of experience is actually a bad thing, a way of coping with life by blocking out reality and mentally running away from it, called, "Dissociation." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_(psychology)

    Others might think what you experienced was spiritual.

    Still others might think it was a mental trick or visual hallucination.

    And others might say it was just your imagination.

    At that age, there is another possibility that I haven't seen anyone else mention yet:

    Your mental and other cognitive abilities were developing as you grew up and at a certain time, the change involved a physical change in your cognitive ability to perceive the world and how you perceived it. Piaget has demonstrated that there are definite stages of cognitive development as children grow up, as below:

    Preoperational Stage
    During this stage (toddler through age 7), young children are able to think about things symbolically. Their language use becomes more mature. They also develop memory and imagination, which allows them to understand the difference between past and future, and engage in make-believe.

    But their thinking is based on intuition and still not completely logical. They cannot yet grasp more complex concepts such as cause and effect, time, and comparison.
    http://www.webmd.com/children/piaget...-development#1


    You said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    Yet almost everyone in Scn CLAIMED THEY experienced some form of exteriorisation
    FIFY. My correction in red.

    There are hundreds, maybe thousands of practices that make that claim. Making that claim is nothing special: it's either some sort of bragging or an outright lie to impress and scam others, or a sincere attempt to explain odd perceptions by giving it a name. Those in scn who make the claims have not proven any special abilities, nor has anyone else.

    All we can say as a general fact is that everybody has at one time or another experienced some odd perceptions and tried to find an explanation for what they experienced. If it's thought to be a positive experience and impresses others in a group to call it spiritual exteriorisation, that group will have far more claims of exteriorisation experiences.
    Last edited by JustSheila; 21st April 2017 at 04:56 PM.
    "Looking back on it I think I got these gains only because the processing made me self reflect and try to repair the damage done by it. So I made gains in spite of Scientology not because of it. It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."

    - Cleared Cannibal


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  9. #515

    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Yeah, I believed the same thing when I was newly out and still half a believer.

    Now I know that, with a very few exceptions, "what is good in Scientology is not new and what is new in Scientology is not good."
    PERFECT!!!

    That one needs to go to the ESMB Golden Quotes thread!
    "Looking back on it I think I got these gains only because the processing made me self reflect and try to repair the damage done by it. So I made gains in spite of Scientology not because of it. It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."

    - Cleared Cannibal


  10. #516
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    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    I have to admit that this is the pinnacle of Scientology-style research and verification of results:
    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    I've over the years interfaced with many who had
    done lots of Scn. I've surveyed such people also on
    occasions [sic] to see if some scn truths were in fact true.
    Such precision of terminology and investigational technique! We're going to "interface" with "many" to determine what is "true".

    And what was found?
    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    Ext perception is something that I found to be quite
    rare. I can only recall 3 or 4 examples off hands [sic] though
    maybe there were a few more.
    "Found"? Found how? What was the method of determining the "truth" of "ext perception"? "Off hands".

    But then we get to the meat of the findings:
    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    Yet almost everyone inn [sic] Scn experienced some form
    of exteriorisation or done [sic] the appropriate correction
    list. Others here must have some of experience of this.
    "Almost everyone" experienced "some form"? OR "done the correction"? Say what?

    This is truly weapons grade investigatory work here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    What are others experiences that may be labelled
    exteriorisation?
    If your definition of "exteriorization" is a fuzzy as Terril's, any experience, and in fact all experiences, can be labelled "exteriorization".

    And therein lies the "success" of Scientology exteriorization.

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  12. #517

    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    I have to admit that this is the pinnacle of Scientology-style research and verification of results:

    Such precision of terminology and investigational technique! We're going to "interface" with "many" to determine what is "true".

    And what was found?

    "Found"? Found how? What was the method of determining the "truth" of "ext perception"? "Off hands".

    But then we get to the meat of the findings:

    "Almost everyone" experienced "some form"? OR "done the correction"? Say what?

    This is truly weapons grade investigatory work here.


    If your definition of "exteriorization" is a fuzzy as Terril's, any experience, and in fact all experiences, can be labelled "exteriorization".

    And therein lies the "success" of Scientology exteriorization.
    Someone who orders me to stop posting is an idiot
    and will get no further response from me!

  13. #518

    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSheila View Post
    That's a much better description of your childhood experience, Terril, thanks.

    According to your statement above, you experienced a change of perception that made you feel more in control. You also did not know what else to call it so years later, when you read what L Ron Hubbard wrote about ''3 feet back of one's head," you called your childhood experience that. According to your earlier posts, it did not involve any special abilities, such as healing, reading cards, etc, and you feel you can still do this now.

    It probably felt good to feel you had found some sort of explanation for something strange that you experienced.

    Other people that may have experienced something similar but did not study Scientology would have found other explanations for it, do you agree?
    From age 6 to approx 14 I tried to control "going ext" and
    eventually succeeded so no longer tried to control it. Have gone ext
    or whatever on several occasions since.

    Here I quote from Panda. This may have been going on.
    I shall cogitate.


    "As a bit of additional data to your core question, I have never once (even when I was a scientologist) believed that being Interior or Exterior involved a Being changing location. I have always seen it as a Being changing the consideration about how much space he was willing and able to permeate. "

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    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    From age 6 to approx 14 I tried to control "going ext" and
    eventually succeeded so no longer tried to control it. Have gone ext
    or whatever on several occasions since
    .

    Here I quote from Panda. This may have been going on.
    I shall cogitate.

    "As a bit of additional data to your core question, I have never once (even when I was a scientologist) believed that being Interior or Exterior involved a Being changing location. I have always seen it as a Being changing the consideration about how much space he was willing and able to permeate. "
    Have gone ext or whatever on several occasions since...

    Your incoherent statements about 'exteriorisation' have been debunked by several posters here, yet you carry on churning out these ridiculous posts.

    Here's some advice. When you're in a hole, stop digging!
    To err is human, to purr is feline - Alexander Pope

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    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    Someone who orders me to stop posting is an idiot
    and will get no further response from me!
    Uh oh! You just did!

    Of course, I didn't "order" you to stop posting. I told you to stop being stupid. But I can see that's never going to happen.

    I can understand why you would confuse "being stupid" and "posting" as meaning the same thing.

    You really crack me up.

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