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Thread: A test of whole track recall

  1. #771
    Crusader Mimsey Borogrove's Avatar
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    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSheila View Post
    Mimsey, I respectfully disagree with you on this point.
    Snip

    How many times have I or some other scientologist said, "That's all there is," then gotten asked that question or told, "Okay, take a look" or something similar and gone digging and diving around looking for some sort of earlier similar incident to come up with an answer?
    Um. Tr3 and 4? Isn't that one of the basics, get your question answered? Perhaps you can wrangle TR 3 & 4 into being eval. I never thought of it that way. The whole premise of metered auditing could be considered eval - you get a read on the meter, test it out with buttons, watching the PC's indicators etc, and if the rud is valid, pursue it to EP. But isn't the read, if it is valid, a communication from the pc that the item is correct? And is thus not evaluation?

    This is from Flying Ruds HCOB 15 Aug 1969:

    CORRECT
    If a rud reads you always follow it earlier until it F/Ns.
    You do NOT continue to test it with a meter and do NOT leave it just because it
    fails to read again.
    If a rud reads you clean it with earlier, earlier, earlier to F/N.
    If a rud reads and the read is false you clean false.
    There are TWO actions possible in flying ruds.
    1. The rud is not out. If it didn’t read you check suppress. If it read but is in
    any way protested you clean false.
    2. The rud is out. You get the data, you follow it earlier earlier until it F/Ns.
    You do not continue to check it for reads.
    Re:
    1) Because memory isn't always linear,
    Yep - you see that all the time on repetitive processes, they cycle up and down the track. But we were talking chain type processes. There is also a question on various correction lists: "You had to go later in order to go earlier"


    Mimsey
    Last edited by Mimsey Borogrove; 24th July 2017 at 02:02 AM.

  2. #772
    Gold Meritorious Sponsor HelluvaHoax!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimsey Borogrove View Post
    I know what you are describing and how it taints the PC's and misleads them, and I have mentioned that earlier in this thread, it fact it was a key point. However, it wasn't taught in the academies and SHSBC the way you proclaim - you were taught to not evaluate for the PC, and few, if any, auditors I knew committed that GAE. As to the constant exposure to whole track stuff - it varied around a lot. Many PC's didn't listen to the tapes or read the books. This evaluation wasn't uniform from PC to PC.

    R6 EW, while it did discuss implants in the theory, did not require a person to look into any past lives - you asked your self: What was I dramatizing ( or words to that effect ) and ran the charge off the answers. How is that evaluation? ( it's been years since I ran that process ) CC, and OT 2 were similar to each other - getting reads off implant items to discharge the items - here though, you ran what was given in the platens, so yes, that qualifies as HE ( Hubbard Evaluation) Power processes & Power plus, likewise didn't tell the pc what to run. Nor any of the lower grades.

    OT 3-7 you ran BTs not past lives. I guess you could argue they (bt's) are a manifestation of HE. But what of it? There weren't all that many that made it up that far on the bridge. You make it sound like all PCs everywhere were tainted by his evaluation, and to the extent that he espoused the presence of a reactive mind, you are correct. But in day to day, lower bridge auditing you asked the pc for his answers not Hubbard's. You didn't tell him what to say, and if he wouldn't go past track on R3R, there was always your handy correction list. I don't know how many were reged to do the past lives remedy, I don't recall it being sold all that often. Anyway, a good C/s and auditor could surmount that obstacle fairly easily.

    Your point is: I didn't. But in the context of the question originally asked, I answered simply and tried to explain the basis of how auditing is done on the lower levels. I omitted the OT levels for the most part.

    Capiche?

    LOL

    I guess we need to keep you here in cramming some more.

    I know what you are describing and how it taints the PC's and misleads them, and I have mentioned that earlier in this thread, it fact it was a key point. However, it wasn't taught in the academies and SHSBC the way you proclaim - you were taught to not evaluate for the PC, and few, if any, auditors I knew committed that GAE.
    Sorry, you are really missing the point. You are confusing auditor session patter with "evaluation". PCs were evaluated for constantly. Example:

    PC on Dianetics. Doesn't go past lives.
    They are then C/Sed for the "Past Lives Remedy"
    That is blatant evaluation. Telling them they have to PAY FOR
    REVIEW AUDITING until they get rid of enough of their bank
    aberrations preventing them from going wholetrack.

    That is the exact opposite of what you are claiming. The pc didn't find an "earlier similar incident" so they have to a) PAY MONEY b) HANDLE THEIR CASE MORE c) Undergo then previous "A" and "B" indoctrination until they suddenly can see wholetrack pictures, just like Ron told them they are supposed to see. What don't you get about this?

    Many PC's didn't listen to the tapes or read the books.
    So? How does that negate the massive amount of evaluation they were exposed to? That argument makes no sense at all.

    OT 3-7 you ran BTs not past lives.
    Please use more clay. The Pre-OT used "intention" to move BTs through the precise wholetrack engrams that Hubbard evaluated that every being on the planet had. The BTs, by definition. were "stuck down the time track" so handling "past lives" on them is EXACTLY what OT III addresses.

    I'll stop here and not debunk any more of your comments. I will just say that the very premise of Auditing and KSW is hard-core evaluation. Hubbard stated that it was a "high crime" to not handle every PC in the world exactly the way he demanded. And he demanded obdience/agreement from all that everyone's bank was IDENTICAL. Remember that. Stop to consider for a moment a therapy that demands ever single person alive has the identical case as everyone else. THAT IS THE MOST EVALUATIVE THING IMAGINABLE.

    But, if you insist, you can continue pretending that auditors and case supervisors didn't eval the living shit out of every single pc. You are trying to sell your theory, but it doesn't work because many here LIVED in the world of Scientology and know it's bullshit.

    Selling that kind of stuff might work, however, if someone had never been inside the cult. They might enjoy hearing how ethical the auditors/case supervisors were in adhering to a promise not to ever evaluate. LOL
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  3. #773
    Crusader Mimsey Borogrove's Avatar
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    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaHoax! View Post
    LOL

    I guess we need to keep you here in cramming some more.



    Sorry, you are really missing the point. You are confusing auditor session patter with "evaluation". PCs were evaluated for constantly. Example:

    PC on Dianetics. Doesn't go past lives.
    They are then C/Sed for the "Past Lives Remedy"
    That is blatant evaluation. Telling them they have to PAY FOR
    REVIEW AUDITING until they get rid of enough of their bank
    aberrations preventing them from going wholetrack.

    That is the exact opposite of what you are claiming. The pc didn't find an "earlier similar incident" so they have to a) PAY MONEY b) HANDLE THEIR CASE MORE c) Undergo then previous "A" and "B" indoctrination until they suddenly can see wholetrack pictures, just like Ron told them they are supposed to see. What don't you get about this?



    So? How does that negate the massive amount of evaluation they were exposed to? That argument makes no sense at all.



    Please use more clay. The Pre-OT used "intention" to move BTs through the precise wholetrack engrams that Hubbard evaluated that every being on the planet had. The BTs, by definition. were "stuck down the time track" so handling "past lives" on them is EXACTLY what OT III addresses.

    I'll stop here and not debunk any more of your comments. I will just say that the very premise of Auditing and KSW is hard-core evaluation. Hubbard stated that it was a "high crime" to not handle every PC in the world exactly the way he demanded. And he demanded obdience/agreement from all that everyone's bank was IDENTICAL. Remember that. Stop to consider for a moment a therapy that demands ever single person alive has the identical case as everyone else. THAT IS THE MOST EVALUATIVE THING IMAGINABLE.

    But, if you insist, you can continue pretending that auditors and case supervisors didn't eval the living shit out of every single pc. You are trying to sell your theory, but it doesn't work because many here LIVED in the world of Scientology and know it's bullshit.

    Selling that kind of stuff might work, however, if someone had never been inside the cult. They might enjoy hearing how ethical the auditors/case supervisors were in adhering to a promise not to ever evaluate. LOL
    Your post makes me wonder how many years ago you went off lines - like in the 80s? Why all the enforce on the "Past Lives Remedy"? Were you reged on it? It was a passing blip on the radar as far as I recall. But hey, maybe the org you were in specialized in running that?

    Yes, you run OT 3 on bts by intending them through incident one or two, and sometimes you did the Milazzo as well. Now lets move closer to PT where you ask the BT "what are you?" and "who are you?" on OT 4, 5 6 and 7. And there are other parts on nots that deal with past track such as cumulative clusters, DL, various advanced procedures. Again, so what?

    Why are you arguing this point? We all know Hubbard evaluated what was in those parts of the bank. You can also claim from 1948 through 86 it was all evaluation. SO WHAT?

    Did someone give you a wrong indication that makes you want to attack me on a point I already agree with you exists?

    Hasta la vista, doble H's.

    Mimsey
    Last edited by Mimsey Borogrove; 24th July 2017 at 04:53 AM.

  4. #774
    Gold Meritorious Patron phenomanon's Avatar
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    Default Re: A test of whole track recall

    Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaHoax! View Post
    .




    Sorry, but what you stated above is manifestly untrue.




    What is missing in your conclusion is this: Hubbard's "tech" pretended to follow an "Auditor's Code" to "not evaluate" for the PC. Yet, PCs were literally overwhelmed with evaluative information, propaganda & coercive financial pressures.

    It would take far to long to list out all the places/times where Hubbard's "tech" beat Scientologists literally senseless by means of "evaluation", so I'll just mention a few here as examples.

    --A "wog" walking into a mission or org is inundated with Scientologists sharing their huge "wins" about past lives--before they even enter their first session

    --Likewise, a PC is subjected to LRH taped lectures about thrilling wholetrack exploits and miraculous "cures" if they locate and run past life incidents.

    --The book "WHAT TO AUDIT" was in all Scn bookstores worldwide. Later re-titled "A HISTORY OF MAN", the book is nothing but a ranting manifesto of all the dastardly implants and wholetrack engrams that was ruining the PC's case--and needed to be contacted and audited out if they would have any slightest hope of achieving Clear, OT and Total Freedom.

    --Other books and materials abounded with evaluation about the vital necessity of "going wholetrack" in their auditing, if they wanted to be a successful PC and Scientologist. What else is the book "Have You Lived Before This Life" and "Mission Into Time"?

    --If a pc could not or would not "go past lives" in their auditing session, guess what happened? The never-evaluating auditor, case supervisor and registrars ganged up on that degraded ("not able" to run past lives) PC and programmed them for the "PAST LIVES REMEDY" auditing rundown. And they were forced to pay for it. No theory here, but real cash money--and real cult members blinklessly staring them down with "r-factors" of how they are doomed if they refuse to buy that auditing and successfully complete it, in order to "blow their aberration" and "handle the charge" preventing them from going past lives in session.

    Do we really need more examples than the above to know that the "NEVER EVALUATE" code rule is an utter and complete lie that Hubbard, Case Supervisors and Auditors broke and violated with abandon every single day.

    Your theory that the PC is never asked and in fact ORDERED to go past lives to find the "earlier incident" is absurd.

    What is Grade VI ("R6EW") if not total evaluation about past lives?

    What is the Clearing course if not total evaluation about past lives?

    What is OT II if not total evaluation about past lives?

    What is OT III if not total evaluation about past lives?

    What is OT IV, V, VI and OT VII if not total evaluation about past lives?

    What is OT VIII if not total evaluation about past lives?

    The concept of "never evaluate" is sheer propaganda.

    It never happened in Hubbard's scientology.

    How did you possibly miss that?

    phenomanon

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