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Thread: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

  1. #1
    Patron with Honors guRl's Avatar
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    Default Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Hi everybody! It's been a while since I've asked the board one of my GuRly-inquisitive-minds-want-to-know questions about the culture of Scientology,
    so here I am now with a new such question!

    Since having a couple of Scientologist friends, and after reading and listening to so many stories by Ex-Scientologists, I came to realize something.
    It seems that not only do Scientologists generally live in the Church-bubble as a community- they also have individual bubbles for each of them, isolating them from one another, and not just from the "Wog World".
    Now, obviously we know that a Scientologist is never allowed to discuss his/her "case" with another fellow Scientologist, and that the deep indoctrination teaches the individual member to doubt him/herself, and never the Tech- meaning that if anything goes wrong for the member, he/she would assume it's because of a poorly executed connection with the body of the Tech on his/her part, rather than a fault with the body of the Tech itself.

    -Fascinating how the Tech becomes an absolute frame of reference, but I digress-

    Anyway, what I came to realize is that this way of operating (mentally) in life, puts the Scientologist in a continuous state of detachment. Not only would it be the emotional general detachment led to by perceiving negative emotions as inherently "abberated", and not only would it be (especially from Staff and SO members) the detachment from whatever it is that's really happening in the world -
    it would be a detachment in a broader sense, of not being able to fully grasp as well as experience another person, thereby grasping and experiencing the relationship with said person.

    It's actually pretty ironic- Scientology encourages a degree of cancellation of the individual self for the needs of the group, and the camaraderie and community sense are indeed a very powerful factor. But on the other hand, the actual INTEREST that I sensed from Scientologists who might be good friends with one another or family members- that interest just isn't.. alive. Isn't completely genuine. The Scientologist would be happy for someone holding a cool certificate, but I suspect he/she actually wouldn't be able to care all that much. I did get to see Scientologists behaving overly enthusiastic (god, was that annoying), but it was obvious that this enthusiasm was fairly artificial. This frantic enthusiasm didn't come from a genuine intention to make other people happy and lift up their moods, or to express anything real.
    It felt more like "I'm so happy! Ha ha! I'm the best ever, lick my shoes you peasants, ha ha! Can everybody see that I'm doing really well?!? Dare to think otherwise and I'll punch you in the face, ha ha!"
    Other times I got to see Scientologists in more 'balanced' moods shall we say, but then they would be more subdued and awkward, with the occasional extreme and aggressive outburst. Again, not just towards Non-Scientologists, but also towards their fellow members.

    I should mention that the few Scientologists I know are mostly 2nd gen, which makes it all the more rooted deep in their psyche I guess, with lack of other references. Also, obviously this theory would apply in different degrees (if that), depending on the person and circumstances and his/her unique experiences in the Church.

    TL;DR - It seems to me that each Scientologist is living a conflict of deeply caring for the planet and his "3rd and 4th dynamic" on one hand, and of being very self-centered and detached from other people - including fellow Scientologists - and not being able to fully experience relationships and different personalities and interests of other people - including fellow Scientologists - on the other hand, because of the way the Church shapes his/her life and way of thinking and feeling.

    I would love to hear any opinions on the matter (:
    One day, when you're out of there, I'll sing this song for you:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ImCpNqbJw


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tory Magoo rocks!

    https://www.youtube.com/user/ToryMagoo44

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Quote Originally Posted by guRl View Post
    snip
    It seems that not only do Scientologists generally live in the Church-bubble as a community- they also have individual bubbles for each of them, isolating them from one another, and not just from the "Wog World".
    Now, obviously we know that a Scientologist is never allowed to discuss his/her "case" with another fellow Scientologist, and that the deep indoctrination teaches the individual member to doubt him/herself, and never the Tech- meaning that if anything goes wrong for the member, he/she would assume it's because of a poorly executed connection with the body of the Tech on his/her part, rather than a fault with the body of the Tech itself.
    snip
    Your post here is full of generalisations that have some
    truth but also much untruth.

    As a scientologist I have commented on my case here.

    I detailed how I didn't doubt myself but the qual division
    and persuaded them that they were incorrect.

    OK I'm not a common or garden scientologist.

    I'm independent ... and free.

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    Pagan Hypatia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    I quite liked GuRl's post. I realize nutshell approaches don't pertain to everyone but I think there's some really good and thoughtful analysis there.
    I do not have a sig line.

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    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    GuRi, I agree with Hypatia. You've put a lot of thought into your post and some of it rings true, but not all of it.

    Although, as you say, scns and FZers tend to shut out anything negative, what doesn't ring true for me is that I personally find some FZers are very good at expressing genuine interest and enthusiasm in subjects they like. The trick seems to be finding a common interest and unfortunately, that common interest usually has to be something at least vaguely related to scn or sci-fi. But not always.

    Forget COS scns - they just can't seem to stop trying to recruit you into it. It's like an obsessive compulsion. They don't even see you as a person, you've got a target on you and they are trying to hit the bullseye to find some button, somewhere, somehow, to get you to respond positively to scn and it's just RELENTLESS! Some FZers are like that too, but others aren't.

    Some subjects I've had wonderful, open conversations with FZers on are astronomy/constellations, historical periods (i.e., Renaissance), nature, biology, long and short term planning and projects, art, music, philosophy and sometimes even certain Psychology theories.

    The downside is if they're not interested, the emotion is fake. It's the old fake tone scale or ARC stuff, where they put that TRs wall up rather than try to get involved with something outside their zone.

    So yah, it's limited, but I don't think as completely limited as your post suggests.
    "Looking back on it I think I got these gains only because the processing made me self reflect and try to repair the damage done by it. So I made gains in spite of Scientology not because of it. It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."

    - Cleared Cannibal


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    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    this is educating for me I never inspected it in that way, individual bubbles within a collective bubble, of course, controlling people from within their own heads and from the heads of others, catering to self determinism and using it to collect money

    i always thought it was extremely stupid and contradictory to have a policy that nobody can talk about their case outside $$ auditing $$, always thought confidentiality was stupid too

    the church replaces every piece of your life till you have no life, you essentially can't share feelings with your family and friends whose support can be more uplifting and "pro survival" than someone who begs for money to hear your secret confessions, problems, etc.

    like most of his self contradicting babble this one goes straight against his incessant speech about raising confront, raising communication, not cutting communication, the arc triangle

    hubbards core tech and policies are proving to be unworkable huge mistakes, scrap it all and start over

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    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Quote Originally Posted by guRl View Post

    snip....

    I should mention that the few Scientologists I know are mostly 2nd gen, which makes it all the more rooted deep in their psyche I guess, with lack of other references. Also, obviously this theory would apply in different degrees (if that), depending on the person and circumstances and his/her unique experiences in the Church.

    snip....
    Hubbard said contagion of abberation was thru engrams.

    I think contagion of abberation is thru ideas presented by the author of his idea. For example the idea that the earth was flat. It took a long time for that idea to be proved false. One has to remember that, that idea of of the earth being flat, why there was no instant communication at the time, it took a long time for people to think about about it and question it and compare notes.

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    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Quote Originally Posted by guRl View Post
    Hi everybody! It's been a while since I've asked the board one of my GuRly-inquisitive-minds-want-to-know questions about the culture of Scientology,
    so here I am now with a new such question!

    Since having a couple of Scientologist friends, and after reading and listening to so many stories by Ex-Scientologists, I came to realize something.
    It seems that not only do Scientologists generally live in the Church-bubble as a community- they also have individual bubbles for each of them, isolating them from one another, and not just from the "Wog World".
    Now, obviously we know that a Scientologist is never allowed to discuss his/her "case" with another fellow Scientologist, and that the deep indoctrination teaches the individual member to doubt him/herself, and never the Tech- meaning that if anything goes wrong for the member, he/she would assume it's because of a poorly executed connection with the body of the Tech on his/her part, rather than a fault with the body of the Tech itself.

    -Fascinating how the Tech becomes an absolute frame of reference, but I digress-

    Anyway, what I came to realize is that this way of operating (mentally) in life, puts the Scientologist in a continuous state of detachment. Not only would it be the emotional general detachment led to by perceiving negative emotions as inherently "abberated", and not only would it be (especially from Staff and SO members) the detachment from whatever it is that's really happening in the world -
    it would be a detachment in a broader sense, of not being able to fully grasp as well as experience another person, thereby grasping and experiencing the relationship with said person.

    It's actually pretty ironic- Scientology encourages a degree of cancellation of the individual self for the needs of the group, and the camaraderie and community sense are indeed a very powerful factor. But on the other hand, the actual INTEREST that I sensed from Scientologists who might be good friends with one another or family members- that interest just isn't.. alive. Isn't completely genuine. The Scientologist would be happy for someone holding a cool certificate, but I suspect he/she actually wouldn't be able to care all that much. I did get to see Scientologists behaving overly enthusiastic (god, was that annoying), but it was obvious that this enthusiasm was fairly artificial. This frantic enthusiasm didn't come from a genuine intention to make other people happy and lift up their moods, or to express anything real.
    It felt more like "I'm so happy! Ha ha! I'm the best ever, lick my shoes you peasants, ha ha! Can everybody see that I'm doing really well?!? Dare to think otherwise and I'll punch you in the face, ha ha!"
    Other times I got to see Scientologists in more 'balanced' moods shall we say, but then they would be more subdued and awkward, with the occasional extreme and aggressive outburst. Again, not just towards Non-Scientologists, but also towards their fellow members.

    I should mention that the few Scientologists I know are mostly 2nd gen, which makes it all the more rooted deep in their psyche I guess, with lack of other references. Also, obviously this theory would apply in different degrees (if that), depending on the person and circumstances and his/her unique experiences in the Church.

    TL;DR - It seems to me that each Scientologist is living a conflict of deeply caring for the planet and his "3rd and 4th dynamic" on one hand, and of being very self-centered and detached from other people - including fellow Scientologists - and not being able to fully experience relationships and different personalities and interests of other people - including fellow Scientologists - on the other hand, because of the way the Church shapes his/her life and way of thinking and feeling.

    I would love to hear any opinions on the matter (:
    I loved this post and totally agree with you. I am working very hard at deprogramming myself from the "loaded language", tech and implants from L Ron Hubbard. It is hard work. I am educating myself as to how cults work to manipulate and trap. That is so theraputic.

    I am able to notice exactly what you are talking about. Some folks can't cuz they have not deprogrammed themselves from the cult think, tech, implants and lies from L Ron Hubbard.

    I notice my ex Scientology friends have this detachment...you speak of. I have some of it too - and I tend to want to be alone...not really liking people anymore. In the cult - the "tech" destroyed my ability to just love everyone .... I looked at people like they were wonderful and interesting and always something about them to like. The cult destroyed that ability with that fucked up Tone Scale. By the way - Trust - is NOT at the top of the Tone Scale.

    The waxing enthusiasm in the cult is all fake and forced. It is used to manipulate you so you can give the staff stats.

    Scientologist's are just like wogs - they just suppress their emotions and those emotions come out sideways and they channel it towards "The Psychs" and SPs. Scientologist's are fighting a battle of long duration - swinging at windmills.

    Scientologist's in the cult are jealous if they don't have the money to get up the bridge...then they join staff to get their Bridge and get snaked and conned out of years of their lives not to mention they get nothing back in return... no bridge, no money, no IRA, no ack.

    My personal experience is Scientologist's make some of the nastiest and uncaring friends you will ever have. Ex Scientologist's are not capable really of being a good friend unless they fully deprogram. I do find both to be unreliable and self centered.

    Wog's make the best kind of friends. Especially Wogs who stay away from cults.

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    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Quote Originally Posted by guRl View Post
    TL;DR - It seems to me that each Scientologist is living a conflict of deeply caring for the planet and his "3rd and 4th dynamic" on one hand, and of being very self-centered and detached from other people - including fellow Scientologists - and not being able to fully experience relationships and different personalities and interests of other people - including fellow Scientologists - on the other hand, because of the way the Church shapes his/her life and way of thinking and feeling.
    Yes, the case of "Too busy caring about the world, to have time to give a damn about any particular person"

    Find out just what a people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. -- Frederick Douglass

  16. #9
    Patron with Honors guRl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSheila View Post
    GuRi, I agree with Hypatia. You've put a lot of thought into your post and some of it rings true, but not all of it.

    Although, as you say, scns and FZers tend to shut out anything negative, what doesn't ring true for me is that I personally find some FZers are very good at expressing genuine interest and enthusiasm in subjects they like. The trick seems to be finding a common interest and unfortunately, that common interest usually has to be something at least vaguely related to scn or sci-fi. But not always.

    Forget COS scns - they just can't seem to stop trying to recruit you into it. It's like an obsessive compulsion. They don't even see you as a person, you've got a target on you and they are trying to hit the bullseye to find some button, somewhere, somehow, to get you to respond positively to scn and it's just RELENTLESS! Some FZers are like that too, but others aren't.

    Some subjects I've had wonderful, open conversations with FZers on are astronomy/constellations, historical periods (i.e., Renaissance), nature, biology, long and short term planning and projects, art, music, philosophy and sometimes even certain Psychology theories.

    The downside is if they're not interested, the emotion is fake. It's the old fake tone scale or ARC stuff, where they put that TRs wall up rather than try to get involved with something outside their zone.

    So yah, it's limited, but I don't think as completely limited as your post suggests.
    Thanks for your input JustSheila!
    Yap, I guess I should have been clearer in my initial post, as I was referring only to CoS Scientologists (because these are the people I have had experiences with). It's great to hear that FZer's are generally more open, living and content (:
    I of course try my best not to generalize this way or another anyway- rather, I'm trying to process the experiences I sometimes have with the CoS Scientologists (and Ex-Scientologists as well, excluding FZ or Indies) I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by arcxcauseblows View Post
    this is educating for me I never inspected it in that way, individual bubbles within a collective bubble, of course, controlling people from within their own heads and from the heads of others, catering to self determinism and using it to collect money

    i always thought it was extremely stupid and contradictory to have a policy that nobody can talk about their case outside $$ auditing $$, always thought confidentiality was stupid too

    the church replaces every piece of your life till you have no life, you essentially can't share feelings with your family and friends whose support can be more uplifting and "pro survival" than someone who begs for money to hear your secret confessions, problems, etc.

    like most of his self contradicting babble this one goes straight against his incessant speech about raising confront, raising communication, not cutting communication, the arc triangle

    hubbards core tech and policies are proving to be unworkable huge mistakes, scrap it all and start over
    Definitely! There seems to be something that is becoming a bit unnatural or just a bit distorted or awkward in the way Scios communicate and perceive their surroundings and people. Again, to a diversity of degrees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Out/Int View Post
    I loved this post and totally agree with you. I am working very hard at deprogramming myself from the "loaded language", tech and implants from L Ron Hubbard. It is hard work. I am educating myself as to how cults work to manipulate and trap. That is so theraputic.

    I am able to notice exactly what you are talking about. Some folks can't cuz they have not deprogrammed themselves from the cult think, tech, implants and lies from L Ron Hubbard.

    I notice my ex Scientology friends have this detachment...you speak of. I have some of it too - and I tend to want to be alone...not really liking people anymore. In the cult - the "tech" destroyed my ability to just love everyone .... I looked at people like they were wonderful and interesting and always something about them to like. The cult destroyed that ability with that fucked up Tone Scale. By the way - Trust - is NOT at the top of the Tone Scale.

    The waxing enthusiasm in the cult is all fake and forced. It is used to manipulate you so you can give the staff stats.

    Scientologist's are just like wogs - they just suppress their emotions and those emotions come out sideways and they channel it towards "The Psychs" and SPs. Scientologist's are fighting a battle of long duration - swinging at windmills.

    Scientologist's in the cult are jealous if they don't have the money to get up the bridge...then they join staff to get their Bridge and get snaked and conned out of years of their lives not to mention they get nothing back in return... no bridge, no money, no IRA, no ack.

    My personal experience is Scientologist's make some of the nastiest and uncaring friends you will ever have. Ex Scientologist's are not capable really of being a good friend unless they fully deprogram. I do find both to be unreliable and self centered.

    Wog's make the best kind of friends. Especially Wogs who stay away from cults.
    Oh yes, whenever I'm around Scientologists, they seem to be a living walking paradox. Everything that you've described here from yourself and the people you knew, certainly rings familiar with me. Yes, I have some friends from the Church, but they are so different than my other friends. For starters, they have a hard time BEING friends, and it seems like they struggle, and they try, and they have huge hearts, but at the same time they're constantly going against themselves in some way. It's like having a few people in one person..
    I can't even imagine how difficult the deprogramming process must be- good for you!!
    One day, when you're out of there, I'll sing this song for you:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ImCpNqbJw


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tory Magoo rocks!

    https://www.youtube.com/user/ToryMagoo44

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  18. #10
    Patron with Honors guRl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enthetan View Post
    Yes, the case of "Too busy caring about the world, to have time to give a damn about any particular person"

    Amazing, I've always thought about this song in regard to Scientologists!..
    One day, when you're out of there, I'll sing this song for you:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ImCpNqbJw


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tory Magoo rocks!

    https://www.youtube.com/user/ToryMagoo44

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