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Thread: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

  1. #21
    Patron with Honors guRl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Ogsonofgroo, thank you very much!

    Indeed, the process of disassociation is very complex, and you've given me much to think about.
    I find it immensely ironic how an Org staff would take pride in tailoring a program for every individual - as you mentioned - when eventually, this becomes such a large part of the problem.
    It's not just "Follow the Tech, and only the Tech". It's "Follow the Tech as we shaped it for you". It seems like many times the individual Scientologist doesn't even get to decide how to use the Tech for himself in particular (excluding basic stuff I guess). That decision lays solely with the staff..
    One day, when you're out of there, I'll sing this song for you:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ImCpNqbJw


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tory Magoo rocks!

    https://www.youtube.com/user/ToryMagoo44

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  3. #22
    Patron John McGhee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Whether one is an independent scibot, a freezoner or a miscavige minion, you may be a lot of things, but free and independent are not two of those.

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  5. #23
    Silver Meritorious Patron TheOriginalBigBlue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Quote Originally Posted by lotus View Post
    They actually might be free of:

    - Being rpfed
    - having 3 regges knocking at the door at night
    - IAS donations

    (for how long time though..in the eventuality it grows as an organization ???)
    Does it sums it up???
    But all these things are true Scientology based on LRH authored Tech and Policy so to the extent they are not applied it is something else. Even the IAS donation crush is just a continuation of the Safe Environment Fund that LRH initiated. It would be more accurate to call Independent Scientology "Defanged Scientology".

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  7. #24
    Silver Meritorious Patron TheOriginalBigBlue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Church policies place a burden of censorship on members talking about case, PR Area Control, Confidential Material & projects, NDAs, punishment for natter/gossip, JDing - Joking and Degrading, criticizing the Church or LRH, taking action against another Scientologist in good standing without going through proper channels, giving verbal data, eventually having to divulge any critical thoughts about Scientology in session or sec-check, etc.

    This isn't a theoretical bubble. It is very much like living in what we understand to be a totalitarian society with real punishment.

    This sets up a deep internal conflict. Scientologists are still human and desire friendship but if they can't come out of their bubble to be able to talk openly with you then they are compelled to bring you into the bubble so you can relate. So the push to proselytize and indoctrinate isn't just in service of the Church - it is also out of a self interest.

    This internal conflict is increased to the degree that Scientology's true nature becomes known to the general public and Scientologists are viewed as social pariah. I thought it was a lonely existence in the 80s - it must be very difficult to come out now.

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  9. #25

    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Quote Originally Posted by lotus View Post
    They actually might be free of:

    - Being rpfed
    - having 3 regges knocking at the door at night
    - IAS donations

    (for how long time though..in the eventuality it grows as an organization ???)
    Does it sums it up???
    The fundamental abuse of organized Scientology, is the idea that one may not criticize Scientology, or Scn management or senior figures, and may not quit, without consequences. Remove the consequences (disconnection, enforced sec checking, fair game, RPF) and much of the abuse goes away.

    Of course, once you remove the barriers to being able to criticize, many Scientologists, once exposed to criticism, will also go away. This was the point of having the barriers.
    Find out just what a people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. -- Frederick Douglass

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  11. #26

    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Quote Originally Posted by John McGhee View Post
    Whether one is an independent scibot, a freezoner or a miscavige minion, you may be a lot of things, but free and independent are not two of those.
    Rubbish!

  12. #27

    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOriginalBigBlue View Post
    But all these things are true Scientology based on LRH authored Tech and Policy so to the extent they are not applied it is something else. Even the IAS donation crush is just a continuation of the Safe Environment Fund that LRH initiated. It would be more accurate to call Independent Scientology "Defanged Scientology".
    This is true. "Defanged Scientology" involves cancelling much of the LRH references dealing with PTSness, cancelling much of "Keeping Scientology Working", etc, etc.

    The foundation that Scientology rests on, is the axiom that LRH is never wrong. Or at least, no Scientologist in disagreement with LRH can ever be right. Take that away, take away LRH's "Papal Infallibility", and you have the Protestant Schism, with a multitude of individual sects, each having their own idea of what "Standard Tech" is.
    Find out just what a people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. -- Frederick Douglass

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  14. #28
    Patron with Honors tesseract's Avatar
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    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enthetan View Post
    The fundamental abuse of organized Scientology, is the idea that one may not criticize Scientology, or Scn management or senior figures, and may not quit, without consequences. Remove the consequences (disconnection, enforced sec checking, fair game, RPF) and much of the abuse goes away.

    Of course, once you remove the barriers to being able to criticize, many Scientologists, once exposed to criticism, will also go away. This was the point of having the barriers.
    Independent scientologists (as auditors) know that without the proper organizational structures they cannot enforce many policies e.g. "ideals" so to not lose face and appear in control of the situation they'll simply talk as little as possible about these things.
    They'll further rationalize this "equilibrium" as being their own idea and will.
    For some it is true that if they could enforce these things, they would do so - something some indies openly say, raving about KSW (Milestone Two) or how all SPs should be in concentration camps (Andy).
    Ofcourse there are true cherry picker scientologists as well. Those one might call the "protestant scientologists", for all I care. Personally I assume this is a more common end product of leaving CoS than the mentally rigid "grudgy wannabe enforcer" but even much more common is the ex scientologist.
    EVIL GETS THINGS DONE

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  16. #29

    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enthetan View Post
    This is true. "Defanged Scientology" involves cancelling much of the LRH references dealing with PTSness, cancelling much of "Keeping Scientology Working", etc, etc.

    The foundation that Scientology rests on, is the axiom that LRH is never wrong. Or at least, no Scientologist in disagreement with LRH can ever be right. Take that away, take away LRH's "Papal Infallibility", and you have the Protestant Schism, with a multitude of individual sects, each having their own idea of what "Standard Tech" is.
    Not really. In LRH issues there are mutliple examples of where
    he is wrong. For example the orgs have failed.

    There is much fundamentalism of varying degrees with
    the protestant arenas.

    The real experts do well.

    In the broad field of psychtherapy there is far more
    variance of what is considered correct.

    Again I'm sure the experts do well. I'm not so familiar
    with their efforts.

  17. #30

    Default Re: Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terril park View Post
    Not really. In LRH issues there are mutliple examples of where
    he is wrong. For example the orgs have failed.
    The fundamental point of "Keeping Scientology Working" was that nobody but LRH ever had a better idea than LRH, in either tech or admin. While LRH occasionally admitted that prior tech or policy was incorrect and issued a correction, I had NEVER seen him, ever, acknowledge any other specific person as being right and himself wrong, in any context.
    Find out just what a people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. -- Frederick Douglass

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